Puritan Audio Laboratories PSM 136

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Vhond

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Re: Puritan Audio Laboratories PSM 136
« Reply #300 on: 11 Nov 2023, 10:34 am »
Has someone compared the Puritan PSM156 to a Lab12 Gordian?

gammi

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Re: Puritan Audio Laboratories PSM 136
« Reply #301 on: 27 Nov 2023, 08:36 pm »
Just bought a PSM156. My house is old and definitely doesn't have the cleanest power, I'm excited to hear how my gear is actually supposed to sound!

Anyway, I have more than 6 things to plug in and here's how I was thinking of laying it out. Thoughts?
1: Gustard R26 DAC (low current but important enough to be on its own)
2: Holo Bliss amp (high current) + Schiit Freya preamp (low current) + Willsenton R800i amp (high current but will not be on when Bliss or Freya are on)
3: Left M225 monoblock (high current)
4: Right M225 monoblock (high current)
5: Anthem AVR (high current) + OCK-1 master clock (low current and AVR won't be on at the same time)
6: TV (low current) + RCA to XLR converter for monoblocks (low current) + PC (maybe? low current when listening to music but high noise)

With this layout the only time an outlet will have more than one device powered on simultaneously is with the Bliss and Freya (only when I wish to add tube harmonics to the Bliss) and the TV + RCA converter, both of which are low current/priority.

EquinoxDesignLab

Re: Puritan Audio Laboratories PSM 136
« Reply #302 on: 28 Nov 2023, 02:17 am »
Has anyone compared the 156 to a PI Audio Uberbuss? I have a pretty tricked out custom uberbuss complete with GTX receptacles and the 156 has my interest. Am looking at a groundmaster city and  routemaster as well. Coming from a Granite Audio Ground Zero.

newzooreview

Re: Puritan Audio Laboratories PSM 136
« Reply #303 on: 28 Nov 2023, 03:08 am »
Yes. The Uberbuss does not do much in my main loudspeaker system, while the PSM 156 transformed it. I added the Groundmaster connected to a six-foot-long dedicated grounding rod, and that improved things further.

I think it depends significantly on the type of issues on the circuit. I do not have a dedicated circuit for audio, so I have TV, NAS, and a dozen other devices with switching power supplies sharing the same circuit. Before using the Puritan, I also had better sound later at night than during the day, suggesting that noise from the broader power system was an issue.

I use the Uberbuss for my headphone setup, which is my main system right now. The PSM 156 with the ground wire running through the wall can't move the distance needed to serve the headphone setup. Although I am selling the main system in anticipation of moving, I will keep the PSM 156 and Groundmaster for eventual use in re-establishing a loudspeaker system down the road.

EquinoxDesignLab

Re: Puritan Audio Laboratories PSM 136
« Reply #304 on: 28 Nov 2023, 03:40 am »
Thanks! I also dont have a dedicated circuit and have what seems to be a myriad of grounding issues I cant seem to get rid of. Occasionally I will even get some type of RF interference in the form of beeps at varying frequencies that comes and goes. Fun stuff!

newzooreview

Re: Puritan Audio Laboratories PSM 136
« Reply #305 on: 28 Nov 2023, 05:49 pm »
Beeps? Yikes!

Beeps sound like some kind of RF interference getting in separately from the electric lines. I am thinking of the clicking that cell phones can produce in smaller speakers.

Is there any WiFi involved in the playback? Disabling any kind of WiFi in the system or WiFi transmitter near the system could help.

gammi

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Re: Puritan Audio Laboratories PSM 136
« Reply #306 on: 28 Nov 2023, 06:50 pm »
My PSM156 will be arriving soon and I want to make sure I have everything optimal. Interested in everyone's thoughts about the best solution here to some noise issues I'm having.

I currently have an issue that my PC is putting out noise both through the 3rd pin ground on the plug and through the HDMI ground.
When I have everything connected to my current power strip (Furman pst-8) there's both sporadic noise from the PC ground and a constant hum from a ground loop. Unplugging the HDMI at the PC gets rid of the ground loop so I know it's coming from there.
The signal path is PC to TV via HDMI and then TV to Anthem AVR via HDMI eARC port. Issue is TV and AVR are both not grounded (2 pin plugs) and PC is (3 pin) hence the ground loop.

The Anthem AVR has a chassis ground screw which I have grounded via a speaker cable running to a ground pin on a plug that's in the Furman power strip. This helped. Moving the PC to another outlet separate from the power strip also helped. I also have a Hum-X on the way which should break ground on the PC and fully eliminate the ground loop. Should I also ground my TV chassis like I did with the AVR? Or once I have the Hum-X installed on the PC, should nothing be grounded?
LG OLEDs apparently have a history of very poor grounding, even shocking people! It's definitely the case on mine, the other day connecting HDMI cables I nearly blew my speakers out when it shocked the HDMI cable as I was plugging it in. There's certainly something not good going on between my PC, TV and AVR. https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED/comments/103x2pl/lg_c1_and_others_grounding_issue/

Oh yeah, I also have a Groundmaster City on the way. The grounding wire for the AVR that's currently connected to a plug in the power strip will be moved to that when it arrives (along with any additional grounds, like the TV)

Appreciate any thoughts!

Edit: I added a ground to the TV via one of the USB ports and iFi Groundhog. The noise was already basically gone but this at least didn't make it worse, so I'm leaving it. Don't like the idea of AC power being passed around between my PC, TV and AVR through the ground of the HDMI and potentially messing things up.


newzooreview

Re: Puritan Audio Laboratories PSM 136
« Reply #307 on: 28 Nov 2023, 10:34 pm »
I would use the PSM 156 for the equipment that is used for two-channel audio and move everything related to video and home theatre to some other power conditioner or power strip.

Although the PSM 156 is designed so that noise from a device plugged into one receptacle should not add noise to another receptacle, I would not push that as far as you might be planning to do.

I am not entirely clear on why you are looking to overload the PSM 156, but it seems like a bad idea.

It could just be me, but when my brain is focused on two-channel audio it picks up small improvements.

When my brain is focused on video and sound, it is ok with a moderately good experience and the subtleties are less critical. I do understand that some people are connosoirs of the home theatre experience, and in that case I would recommend a second PSM 156 for the home theatre rather than exceeding the capacity of the one you purchased.

gammi

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Re: Puritan Audio Laboratories PSM 136
« Reply #308 on: 28 Nov 2023, 10:51 pm »
I would use the PSM 156 for the equipment that is used for two-channel audio and move everything related to video and home theatre to some other power conditioner or power strip.

I am not entirely clear on why you are looking to overload the PSM 156, but it seems like a bad idea.

Thanks for the feedback but everything I listed is used for 2 channel audio...
I go from my PC to TV to AVR preout to monoblocks sometimes to power my 2 channel speakers.

I'm not looking to overload the PSM, I simply have a lot of devices that would benefit from clean power.
How am I overloading it anyway? Honest question. Is it not capable of having all 6 plugs in use? If you look back at my layout in most situations there will be 0 or 1 thing turned on per outlet, with the one exception being the outlet with the TV and RCA to XLR converter, both of which are low load.

Also buying a second PS156 is not an option. I'm not dropping another $2300 just to use 1 or 2 outlets on it.
If you could point how exactly I'm exceeding the capacity of the PS156, that would be appreciated. Peak power draw at any given time is going to be approximately 600W (home theater w/ monoblocks for front channels), typical will be closer to 200W (headphones or 2ch speakers) with these situations never overlapping.

Given that they don't overlap, I don't see why separating the two would change anything when either just the home theater equipment or just the 2ch/headphone equipment is turned on at a time.

Early B.

Re: Puritan Audio Laboratories PSM 136
« Reply #309 on: 28 Nov 2023, 11:42 pm »
Thanks for the feedback but everything I listed is used for 2 channel audio...
I go from my PC to TV to AVR preout to monoblocks sometimes to power my 2 channel speakers.

I think what newzooreview is saying is "keep it simple." He's a nice guy, so I'll be more blunt: powering your 2-channel speakers through a TV and AVR are unnecessary and convoluted steps. Plus, you're screwing up the sound by doing that, especially since you've already identified the HDMI cable as a noise problem. No power conditioner will fix a system that isn't set up correctly. Start by configuring your system the right way. Discussing an AVR for 2-channel use with audiophiles is like kryptonite to Superman -- it makes us nauseous just thinking about it.   

newzooreview

Re: Puritan Audio Laboratories PSM 136
« Reply #310 on: 28 Nov 2023, 11:51 pm »
I had counted the devices and the outlets and reasoned that you would be using something like a splitter cord to get everything plugged in at once:





If you are going to manually plug and unplug devices as needed to keep just one plugged into each outlet then it should be ok. The Puritan is designed to minimize noise from one device getting into another device.

Often the source components benefit most from the cleaner power since their signals are weaker and get amplified upstream. Having said that, I found that my power amps benefitted significantly from the Puritan.

A diagram of the setup could help, since I am not following the role of each piece of equipment. There is an Anthem integrated amp as well as two monoblocks, for example.

newzooreview

Re: Puritan Audio Laboratories PSM 136
« Reply #311 on: 29 Nov 2023, 12:06 am »
Can you clarify, is the PC the source of video to the TV and dedicated two-channel audio as well?

A PC directly feeding two-channel audio to a preamp is typically a source of insurmountable noise that the Puritan won't fix, and running it through HDMI then TV then AVR is further degrading things.

I do wonder whether the Puritan would be addressing the biggest issues effecting sound quality in the setup described.

I would look to spend the money, perhaps, on an Apple TV box to feed my TV with video from Plex (locally stored files), Netflix, Youtube TV, and whatever else). You can run the HDMI out from the Apple TV into a $15 HDMI audio breakout box to get Toslink into a modest DAC (Schiit Modius, for example): https://www.schiit.com/products/modius

HDMI breakout box: https://www.amazon.com/LinkS-Extractor-Splitter-Converter-Chromecast/dp/B00XJITK7E?crid=3FEOXTEMTMS7O&sprefix=hdmi+to+tosln,aps,303

Then you can move the music onto a NAS and get a streaming box (Bluesound Node X, Volumio Primio as examples) and use their software to send files to the DAC for playback). Or you could get an Eversolo DMP-A6, which has a DAC built in, and put an SSD drive in it to stream music directly from the Eversolo to your preamp. It handles all of the streaming services as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vniWmD-HAoU

The noisy PC, the TV, and the Anthem are no longer in the playback chain, Toslink breaks any groundloops into the DAC, and your digital playback and streaming (Qobuz, Tidal, whatever) are coming from a good quality streamer directly into the preamp.

Would cost less than the Puritan as well.

My hunch is that refining things with the Puritan is only audible once the PC, HDMI, TV, AVR clutter is cleaned up from the signal path.
« Last Edit: 29 Nov 2023, 01:14 am by newzooreview »

gammi

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Re: Puritan Audio Laboratories PSM 136
« Reply #312 on: 29 Nov 2023, 01:36 am »
I think what newzooreview is saying is "keep it simple." He's a nice guy, so I'll be more blunt: powering your 2-channel speakers through a TV and AVR are unnecessary and convoluted steps. Plus, you're screwing up the sound by doing that, especially since you've already identified the HDMI cable as a noise problem. No power conditioner will fix a system that isn't set up correctly. Start by configuring your system the right way. Discussing an AVR for 2-channel use with audiophiles is like kryptonite to Superman -- it makes us nauseous just thinking about it.

I have about $40k in audio equipment, at what point do I get to consider myself among these elite audiophiles too good for an AVR? :)
Anyway, I primarily just use the AVR when the other equipment is warming up or non-critical listening. Specifically my DAC has a long warm up time since it's R2R. Also the ARC room correction in the AVR makes a big improvement.

As for the HDMI noise, your comment is a bit confusing to me because isn't the purpose of a power conditioner to eliminate and isolate noise? Seems odd to avoid using it to accomplish what it's made to do!
It's probably a moot point anyway because I mentioned that:
A) I've moved the PC plug to another outlet and I'm also isolating the ground via a Hum-X, so that won't be contaminating anything
B) The TV (and thus the HDMI going through it) will be grounded to the Groundmaster City, dumping any noise into that, away from my audio equipment

I had counted the devices and the outlets and reasoned that you would be using something like a splitter cord to get everything plugged in at once:

If you are going to manually plug and unplug devices as needed to keep just one plugged into each outlet then it should be ok. The Puritan is designed to minimize noise from one device getting into another device.

Often the source components benefit most from the cleaner power since their signals are weaker and get amplified upstream. Having said that, I found that my power amps benefitted significantly from the Puritan.

A diagram of the setup could help, since I am not following the role of each piece of equipment. There is an Anthem integrated amp as well as two monoblocks, for example.

Thanks for the follow up. Yup, I'll be using a splitter. I've tested the splitter already vs connecting devices directly and heard no difference, so I'm personally ok with using one. As mentioned 5 out of 6 outlets will only have at most 1 device on 90%+ of the time. That 6th outlet will be two low load devices, TV and RCA to XLR converter. That 10% of the time for the 2nd outlet is when the Bliss and Freya are on at the same time.

DAC will be plugged in directly since it is most important, as will the monoblocks.
But again, even for the devices not plugged in directly, they'll be the only thing powered on for that outlet (other than outlet 6 as mentioned)

Here are all combos of layouts I use as requested:
PC > TV via HDMI > AVR > RCA to XLR converter > monoblocks
PC > Gustard R26 DAC via galvanically isolated USB + OCK-1 clock > (optionally Freya+ here for tube effect) > Holo Bliss > (optionally monoblocks here, using Bliss as pre)
Gustard R26 DAC internal streamer via fiber optic isolated LAN + OCK-1 clock  > (optionally Freya+ here for tube effect) > Holo Bliss > (optionally monoblocks here, using Bliss as pre)
PC > Gustard R26 DAC via galvanically isolated USB + OCK-1 clock > R800i tube amp
Gustard R26 DAC internal streamer via fiber optic isolated LAN + OCK-1 clock  > R800i tube amp

As you can see, even in the worst scenario, there are only 5 things powered by the PSM156 (DAC, clock, Freya, Bliss, monoblocks)
Actually writing this out has made me realize I want to move the Freya+ to outlet 6, thus eliminating the 10% case I mentioned and making it that only outlet 6 ever has more than one item turned on.


Can you clarify, is the PC the source of video to the TV and dedicated two-channel audio as well?

A PC directly feeding two-channel audio to a preamp is typically a source of insurmountable noise that the Puritan won't fix, and running it through HDMI then TV then AVR is further degrading things.

I do wonder whether the Puritan would be addressing the biggest issues effecting sound quality in the setup described.

I would look to spend the money, perhaps, on an Apple TV box to feed my TV with video from Plex (locally stored files), Netflix, Youtube TV, and whatever else). You can run the HDMI out from the Apple TV into a $15 HDMI audio breakout box to get Toslink into a modest DAC (Schiit Modius, for example): https://www.schiit.com/products/modius

HDMI breakout box: https://www.amazon.com/LinkS-Extractor-Splitter-Converter-Chromecast/dp/B00XJITK7E?crid=3FEOXTEMTMS7O&sprefix=hdmi+to+tosln,aps,303

Then you can move the music onto a NAS and get a streaming box (Bluesound Node X, Volumio Primio, Eversolo DMP-A6, as examples) and use their software to send files to the DAC for playback).

The noisy PC, the TV, and the Anthem are no longer in the playback chain, Toslink breaks any groundloops into the DAC, and your digital playback and streaming (Qobuz, Tidal, whatever) are coming from a good quality streamer directly into the preamp.

Would cost less than the Puritan as well.

My hunch is that refining things with the Puritan is only audible once the PC, HDMI, TV, AVR clutter is cleaned up from the signal path.

The list of layouts above should clarify your PC source question. Let me know if it doesn't.

I use my TV as the PC monitor, in fact that's what I'm doing now. So Apple TV isn't an option. Also my DAC, the Gustard R26 has a built in streamer already.
With my different layouts listed above you can now see the PC isn't always in the chain, and HDMI out from the PC is in the chain even less (one scenario). Critical listening is done via the streamer, completely separated from the PC/TV/AVR or via USB completely separated from the TV/AVR and separated from the PC USB via galvanic isolation.

Despite the first impression I made seemingly being that I'm an idiot attaching multiple noisy circuits to his audio equipment, I've actually put quite a lot of thought into this setup to isolate noise (fiber LAN isolator, galvanic USB isolator, ground isolation on the PC, grounding HDMI via the TV/AVR, buying a $2300 power conditioner, etc) while also maintaining convenience and ease of using multiple configurations.

Early B.

Re: Puritan Audio Laboratories PSM 136
« Reply #313 on: 29 Nov 2023, 01:56 am »
My hunch is that refining things with the Puritan is only audible once the PC, HDMI, TV, AVR clutter is cleaned up from the signal path.

Agreed. Keep it simple: a new source>DAC>Freya>monos. 

gammi

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Re: Puritan Audio Laboratories PSM 136
« Reply #314 on: 29 Nov 2023, 02:37 am »
Agreed. Keep it simple: a new source>DAC>Freya>monos.

AVR won't be powered on when listening to music in this configuration, so that's exactly what it will be :)
Actually even simpler than that since the DAC is the source (built in streamer)

My intention was that when home theater equipment is on, music equipment is off and vice versa. Thus they should never interfere since they'll never be on simultaneously (at least not during any critical listening)
The question about grounding the HDMI/PC was a separate question to my initial PSM156 layout post.

Hope that clears things up a bit.
Anyway, I'll make sure to test all these different configurations and see first hand. If somehow I hear an appreciable difference with the AVR connected even though the PSM plugs are isolated and the AVR isn't even powered on, I'll separate that out. I can't imagine that being the case though

Mr. Big

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Re: Puritan Audio Laboratories PSM 136
« Reply #315 on: 9 Dec 2023, 12:52 am »
Quite a testimonial comparing Niagara equipment to the PSM156: I've read enough, bought one.


https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/power-conditioners-niagara-and-psm.263519/#post-4577307

Hi all,

Just thought I would post my experience with these as a data point or two for the community. I have been steadily adding bits and pieces to my system over the last few years, and at some point, I had read about power conditioning. I had a few chats with people and the message I was getting was it made a positive difference.

I decided to have a go and took the plunge with a secondhand Audioquest Niagara 1000. My thinking was if I didnt like it, I could fairly easily sell it on without too much of a hit. One Ebay transaction later a good condition 1000 turns up on my doorstep and I duly plug it in. The one other advantage of secondhand kit is generally it has already been run in and you are hearing it as it will continue to sound.

So what was the result of the experiment? I liked it! I felt I could hear more detail, and the sound overall had improved.

(OPTIONAL READING PART: At this point, an important administrative note. This is what happened in my system in my house. Changing power stuff could well be different in your set up because the quality of the power in your house is probably different to that in mine and also different to other people who have opinions on the subject. If you have brilliant power quality supply and recently installed ring mains, chances are you will have a different experience to someone in a Victorian house at the furthest point from the substation. People need to remember these other variables! Secondly, I reject around 50% of new hifi kit I try out. Didnt like the Audioquest Coffee USB, didnt like the Innuos Zenith Mk2 etc etc. I post this because people often claim confirmation bias, personally I just ask myself do I like this more? If its the same, maybe slightly different, I dont bother, if its better, I buy it.)

With that out the way, back to the hifi! I was very happy with the 1000 and ran it for a good 6 months or so. Until the upgrade bug attacked me! I happened to see a Niagara 3000 come up second hand. Reading reviews it seemed it was a better product. There were technical differences, a power reservoir type system that supposedly can deliver high current almost instantaneously to help deliver powerful punchy transients that the 1000 lacked. What to do? Silly question, I bought it!

Was it better than the 1000? Yes it was! Better clarity and detail most noticeable to me, maybe slightly better bass, but not really stand out. Anyway, it was a step up, and happy once again as my system matured with better power. Fast forward about another 9 months. Whats this itchy scratchy nagging feeling I have? Oh, its upgraditis again!

The trouble was, I still noticed differences in sound quality from day time to evening, and from week day to weekend, in my mind, this is a classic symptom of power quality variation still getting through my system. Others might disagree but that was my thought process any way. I saw a Niagara 5000 secondhand, but now we are talking £3600+ even used. This is getting serious, Im not going to take a punt on that without a demo first!

Except its hard to find one to get a demo of. Reading around how other people had tackled the problem, I starting reading about another product, the PSM 136/156 family from Puritan audio. Didn't know much about them, although seeing lots great reviews on their cheap but effective power cables (whole other story right there - staying on topic!). Anyway, I saw a 156 second hand one again for £1000 which was actually less than what I paid for the Niagara 3000. One reviewer rated the 156 as better than the 5000. Well if it was equivalent, it still would have been a step up and at a £2.5K saving.

So today I picked it up and and have just plugged it in (A job in itself with all the cable dressing!). Although second hand, it had not really been used at all, and hence still is burning in. However, I can tell straight away the difference compared to the 3000. ITS A BIG LEAP FORWARD!!!!! This thing is brilliant! A true hifi bargain. The music is just popping out of the speakers and jumping around the room, there is so much life. Bass is punchier and taughter. Detail and clarity are improved without harshness or loss of tonal balance. This thing is GREAT!!! Cant believe it. Only downside is it has 6 sockets rather than 7, but stuff it, I'll get another one and plug in the TV to it as well.

Do yourself a favour and audition one. You may not like it, but I bet you will. (I have no affiliation with any manufacturer or retailer - its just a great product) The Stereo Times rated it a most wanted product of the decade, I can see why.


This is why power regeneration by PS Audio it does all the Puritan does, but also keeps your ac rock stable at 120V, you can lower it and raise it and you will hear how voltage fluctuation impacts the sound of your system, below 120V the sound became thinner and brighter, above 120V the sound becomes bass heavy and slow sounding the same thing we hear when some days are system sounds great than others like crap, get at least a PS Audio P12 for your front end gear and it will pay for itself with the improvement on your system sound, as big as buying new gear, of course fixing your room is a must even with a power conditioner.

newzooreview

Re: Puritan Audio Laboratories PSM 136
« Reply #316 on: 9 Dec 2023, 01:46 am »
PSM 136 = $1800 (with their basic 2M Puritan power cord)
PSM 156 = $2,300 (with their basic 2M Puritan power cord) **fixed my earlier post showing prices with the Ultimate power cord**

PowerPlant 12 = $6,000

So, sure: twice the cost and running so hot it needs a fan. The PowerPlant may sound better, though. Steve Huff sold his PowerPlant and got a PSM 156, but that's just one opinion.
« Last Edit: 9 Dec 2023, 03:33 am by newzooreview »

JackD

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Re: Puritan Audio Laboratories PSM 136
« Reply #317 on: 9 Dec 2023, 02:13 am »
Retail on the PSM 156 is $2299 so you can almost buy three for the price of the PowerPlant.  I bought one to replace a PowerPlant for everything but the amplifier. The difference in noise alone was immediately noticeable.  I've since bought a second.

Downtheline

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Re: Puritan Audio Laboratories PSM 136
« Reply #318 on: 16 Dec 2023, 06:34 am »
Has anyone compared the 156 to a PI Audio Uberbuss? I have a pretty tricked out custom uberbuss complete with GTX receptacles and the 156 has my interest. Am looking at a groundmaster city and  routemaster as well. Coming from a Granite Audio Ground Zero.

I just replaced my uberbuss with the puritan 156. Still using a ground zero. Not an obvious difference yet, still needs to burn in.  Will update later. Interested in adding the gm city to the 156, but likely to keep the ground zero for chassis grounds.

Pedrin

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Re: Puritan Audio Laboratories PSM 136
« Reply #319 on: 22 Dec 2023, 02:28 pm »
Hi
Please where i can get to buy the puritan PSM156 in USA?

Thanks..