[MttBsh]

Is class D the future, well it might be then it might not, but to be honest the boomers are the audio hobby and as they die off then younger folks may be the class D people

Hey just a sec... speaking as a baby boomer we're not ready to die off just yet! I've been in this hobby for a long time and have been using Class D amplification for the past few years. One thing we boomers have besides a love for audio is $$$s, that's right, I can afford any amp I want and yet I have no interest in making a change. I am continually amazed by how great my system sounds with class D amplifying it.

[Mr. Big]

Seems DBT is far more right than wrong.  It's somewhat puzzling to see condemnation and/or justification for denying the validity of the GanFet solution by those having no informed opinion.  Conservatism acts to protect the status quo and there's arguable utility in that position. But here the GanFet solution, NOT MOSFET Class D, has met with universal praise.  Some might not be ready to abandon their tubes and/or SS but  nobody, thus far, who has an INFORMED opinion, has leveled any criticism of the GanFets.  Interestingly, it appears that many of the contributors to this thread are older guys.  Not surprised in the least to see resistance to "new."  How can something so small, cheap, etc., be any good?  I don't suppose it matters to remind that group that technology, in general, following Moore's Law, has been getting more powerful, smaller, and manifesting greater performance.  It's a lack of imagination to fail to understand that these little boxes could outperform their massive A/AB competitors.  That's what's so shocking when you first hear these amps.  Their refinement, presence, clarity, bass and tonal purity are superior to SS class A/AB and/or tube, at least in my systems.  Consider a recent post from Tom Rost to me,

"Actually, our first GaN amps used the HUGE linear power supply. Keep in mind, besides the linear power supply, it also used a large toroid transformer weighing over 8 pounds. The cases were CNC machined. Attached photos... inside view is just rough prototype. What happened after that is when designing the mini GaN, I was able to pull the same performance as the bigger amp and at less than half the price. It just didn't make sense to go ahead with the larger amps as prices would start at more than double the Mini GaN for the same or possibly less performance. We use a newly developed LLC converter in the mini GaN with some newer technology that allows us to get the excellent performance in a very small package."

Hardly "tom, dick, harry" stuff.  Further, as far as any "tom, dick, harry" engaging in class D start-ups: 1) who cares and why? Either the product justifies its existence/price by commensurate performance or it doesn't; and 2) products that are designed with unique topology/architecture are not "tom, dick, harry" products.  Class D Audio, Orchard Audio, Atma-Sphere, as examples, apparently designed their proprietary circuits. This is not about throwing a Madison Sound or EPC board into a chassis and calling it a GanFet amp. These designers deserve a chance and, perhaps, even a hint of generosity before being blindly condemned with blanket assertions like "tom, dick, harry" doing DIY kit.

At the end of the day, boomers, are aging out. If the audio market is to survive one doesn't need to be much of a visionary to see that GanFets provide the way forward. As I wrote earlier, my daughter and her peer group of music lovers, are put-off by the old, and by now really old school, heavy, ponderous, blah, blah, blah, products virtually indistinguishable from those of the last 50 years. GanFets will bury MOSFETS and the old-school guys that want to keep their MOSFET kit, well, that's fine. The rest of us will walk out of the desert to the promised land.

I am not trying to argue here about class D good or bad it is a personal choice. Having said that I get the feeling of if you have not heard them then you don't really know how they sound. Well per my past post I have  And to say that we who may not drink the kool-aide in class D and our somewhat behind, well that is crap, it just that we know what sounds right perhaps and don't following trends, but I think Class D may be in the future the way to go, and like I also said I may go that way myself at some point not for the best sound but due to ease and loss of weight as I also stated. I could also say you not heard my Mark Levinson gear with my M3's. But then I've not heard the Class D brand either but I have heard:

1. Element 114 Stereo Power Amplifier (Cleanest)
2. PS Audio 1200 (most musical)
3. Jeff Rowland Model 625 ( Best of both above)

Enjoyed all of, them and kept my A/B.

[genjamon]

Always good to keep a healthy level of skepticism - fads and amps of the month are indeed common in this hobby. Many folks on AudioCircle fell victim to aggressive posting tactics by the Mivera guys several years ago as the latest Ice 1200 modules came out, and I can see how some might get more than a whiff of that experience from Catluck’s quickness to respond with highly enthusiastic and thorough responses to each and ever post on this thread.

That said, it seems unfair to just lump this in with “Class D” tech and move on. First, Catluck isn’t a dealer/manufacturer and has no skin in the game. Second, GAN is new technology! It’s really not the same as silicon-based Class D, like each of Mr. Big’a examples are.

I understand Mr. Big’s unwillingness to try yet another new technology in the evolution of Class D amplification. But I understood that just as clearly after his first post. How many pages ago was that?

[Tyson]

I heard a GaN amp at RMAF before it was disbanded.  They are good sounding amps, definitely better than class D I've heard in the past.

[2bigears]

  it all comes across as the 'flav of the month' .  But till one can A-B back to back and side by side,, one never knows. I'd love to donate my 100 pound amp to a cargo ship for an anchor.  Save power too. Win win. I did come very close to jumping on this train. Let's see what happens here.     

[Early B.]

it all comes across as the 'flav of the month' .  But till one can A-B back to back and side by side,, one never knows. I'd love to donate my 100 pound amp to a cargo ship for an anchor.  Save power too. Win win. I did come very close to jumping on this train. Let's see what happens here.     

That's exactly what I did. I replaced my 80 lb. monoblocks with a featherweight Purifi amp and it was no competition at all.

Let's face it -- in the past few years, technology has had a significant impact on audiophiles. This technology is finally impacting amps which haven't seen a major change in decades. Think about it -- there's gotta be a better way to get good sound without using 50 lb transformers or fragile, expensive tubes. We're there now.

   

[catluck]

Mr. Big - Fair enough. I take your points. And I've always been and will always be, to each his/her own.

Genjamon - I appreciate your generosity and comments. I would remind all however, that "getting stuck with" or some other variant of "being taken" by hucksters pushing the "fad" or "flavor" of the month, is NOT what I've been advocating for.  I have several times simply suggested with that a 15-day trial period from either Class D Audio or Orchard Audio or ???, you're, at worst, out the cost of shipping if you want to try GanFet amps. There's no potential for loss here, except about $30 for shipping.  Finally, you may recall if you read the first post in this thread, I came to GanFets a skeptic with a negative bias to boot. I was prepared to pooh-pooh, and derisively sniff at, GanFets - happily retreating to my quality tuibe monoblocks.  Knocked on my ass I was. 

Still, I started this thread to persuade folks to just try Ganfets.  Some will some won't.  If nothing else, we've enjoyed a spirited, wide-ranging, and thoughtful conversation. I've read some really good comments here.

Early B - HOORAY! Maybe I've got some company on this island!

[genjamon]

Catluck, even after feeling similarly to Mr. Big after trying a fully decked out Mivera Ice 1200 amp, I’m definitely keen to give a GANfet amp a try at some point, hopefully in the near future. And this thread has been very valuable in helping me focus my attention on the ClassDAudio offerings. It also helps that Mick Wolfe’s is an ear I know and trust. But I’m in no rush and need to free up some cash first.

In the meantime, I’m super interested in what Morgan’s findings are between his stereo and monoblock versions. Seems like most of those who have tried and commented on this thread have balanced/XLR systems and went for the monoblocks. But Morgan is using them single-ended and has the exact same preamp as I do. So his opinion could tell the tale for me as to whether the monoblocks bring enough extra to the table to warrant the near-doubling in cost over a single stereo amp. Is certainly have no need for the extra headroom monoblocks offer.

[catluck]

genjamon,

 

[Early B.]

We need a Mini GaN5 mini tour.

[lazbisme]

Early B, time it right and you can have your own 15 day tour and only be out $20? bucks. Order at first of month, listen for 15 days, return and have money returned to your card before next payment is due!!

[munosmario]

Always good to keep a healthy level of skepticism - fads and amps of the month are indeed common in this hobby. Many folks on AudioCircle fell victim to aggressive posting tactics by the Mivera guys several years ago as the latest Ice 1200 modules came out, and I can see how some might get more than a whiff of that experience from Catluck’s quickness to respond with highly enthusiastic and thorough responses to each and ever post on this thread.

That said, it seems unfair to just lump this in with “Class D” tech and move on. First, Catluck isn’t a dealer/manufacturer and has no skin in the game. Second, GAN is new technology! It’s really not the same as silicon-based Class D, like each of Mr. Big’a examples are.

I understand Mr. Big’s unwillingness to try yet another new technology in the evolution of Class D amplification. But I understood that just as clearly after his first post. How many pages ago was that?

Well said genjamon. Guess Catluck's superior expression skills tamed by diplomacy can be contagious...in a nut shell, this thread's intent was not to start another subjective debate on Class A/AB/ Solid State (or Tube) amplification types versus whatever state of the art in conventional MOSFET based Class D amplification. In this thread, Catluck has taken pains to introduce to us (AC members/readers), his personal discovery of what he considers to be an extraordinary synergy of a well-executed combination of best practices of Class D amplification principles and GanFets.

The bottom line of Catluck's evaluation, based on his very credible and extensive hands-on experience on these matters, is that the synergy is basically revolutionary with respect to what it does to the cost/benefit equation in the quest to attain the best possible sound quality--in general, and, in particular, using Class-D amplification. Cutting to the chase, if your goal is to own a car that goes from 0-60 in less than 2.5 seconds you can do it with a $1 million Ferrari, an $800K Porsche...or an $80K Tesla. Warning, besides being much more energy efficient, the Tesla is extremely quiet, you barely will hear the engine working; on the other hand, as you know, revving up the engines of those two other cars is absolutely exhilarating!

Mario

[morganc]

Catluck, even after feeling similarly to Mr. Big after trying a fully decked out Mivera Ice 1200 amp, I’m definitely keen to give a GANfet amp a try at some point, hopefully in the near future. And this thread has been very valuable in helping me focus my attention on the ClassDAudio offerings. It also helps that Mick Wolfe’s is an ear I know and trust. But I’m in no rush and need to free up some cash first.

In the meantime, I’m super interested in what Morgan’s findings are between his stereo and monoblock versions. Seems like most of those who have tried and commented on this thread have balanced/XLR systems and went for the monoblocks. But Morgan is using them single-ended and has the exact same preamp as I do. So his opinion could tell the tale for me as to whether the monoblocks bring enough extra to the table to warrant the near-doubling in cost over a single stereo amp. Is certainly have no need for the extra headroom monoblocks offer.

At this moment the monoblocks are breaking in and I am not hearing a significant improvement over the stereo version. However that may change with a few more hours on the units of course.  Will keep y’all updated with any changes.

[catluck]

Munosmario - Thank you

[genjamon]

At this moment the monoblocks are breaking in and I am not hearing a significant improvement over the stereo version. However that may change with a few more hours on the units of course.  Will keep y’all updated with any changes.

Encouraging!

[newzooreview]

At this moment the monoblocks are breaking in and I am not hearing a significant improvement over the stereo version. However that may change with a few more hours on the units of course.  Will keep y’all updated with any changes.

What is your system setup? Just checking in case the system in your profile is not up to date.

[morganc]

What is your system setup? Just checking in case the system in your profile is not up to date.

I just updated my profile. 

[Mr. Big]

Always good to keep a healthy level of skepticism - fads and amps of the month are indeed common in this hobby. Many folks on AudioCircle fell victim to aggressive posting tactics by the Mivera guys several years ago as the latest Ice 1200 modules came out, and I can see how some might get more than a whiff of that experience from Catluck’s quickness to respond with highly enthusiastic and thorough responses to each and every post on this thread.

It seems unfair to lump this in with “Class D” tech and move on. First, Catluck isn’t a dealer/manufacturer and has no skin in the game. Second, GAN is new technology! It’s not the same as silicon-based Class D like each of Mr. Big’a examples are.

I understand Mr. Big’s unwillingness to try yet another new technology in the evolution of Class D amplification. But I understood that just as clearly after his first post. How many pages ago was that?

I was not unwilling, I heard the above amps and I said enjoyed what they did but I kept  A/B amps because they sounded better overall. There are a ton of amps out there, Class D, A, or A/B. Many internet-driven, not like when I got into this hobby and there not hundreds of amps to hear that you could walk into an audio store and hear perhaps the top 10 amps made, along with their preamps, and make a good decision based on your tastes in music reproduction. So based on what I heard in person, I kept what I had and that was because I did not hear enough improvements or for that matter any, just a different perspective of the presentation, but it was not a holy crap I never heard anything like this, what they all had in common is they sound clean with the great bottom end. I went from box speakers to Electrostatics to open baffle and from a small company so I am not against that at all. Having said that I knew the upside of open baffle designs from a speaker from the 1970's called the Dahlquist DQ10 which was an open baffle from the midrange on up with a sealed woofer. It was one of my most enjoyable speakers along with the Quad ESL's which still sounds more real than any speaker made, but with some limitations on driving them hard, but no speaker purer and tone correct. Still, I love my Sapphires as much because of what I can do with them with peace of mind that I had to watch with the Quads, but the Quads still stand out on their own merits.

I understand when we read so much excitement about a product and everyone flocks to it, be it the newest line power conditioners, folks sell what they had and buy the newest one and find it is good but not much better than the one they owned, but that is what media sales ads are about to get you to buy their unit and if you do you will see God...smile! now regeneration units like PS on a standard on there own and the best I've I heard and used from my front end gear, with my amps on the other side of the room, I could never use any type of conditioner on my whole system, but the front end improvements were positive with the PS Audio units. Then the last few years the Puritan units from England came out, and a big uproar over them, folks writing they kill any others made before them, well they come and gone and you can find them for sale used already. But this is a hobby and it is nice to have options and that is always good! 

[Bingenito]

I think that the underlying point of this thread is very positive. To me that is that in 2022 we can get great amplification at a very fair price and you do not need to ask your buddy to come get it out of the box because it is surrounded by sharp heat sinks and 140lbs with all of the weight uneven where the transformer is.

5-10yrs ago I think that Class D meh and quickly went back to Class A or A/B. Today 3 rooms and all class D. No regret and put that savings in the bank.

[newzooreview]

I just updated my profile.

A lot of updates! Cool.