[nlitworld]

If you ask me, that's half the fun of DIY is learning as you go. I am not a mechanic, yet I enjoy trying to work on my own cars. I am not a contractor, but I know I can be pretty handy with a hammer and Sawzall. In the end, the frustration a novice has of trying to figure out speaker upgrades is really first world problems. It seems irresponsible to look at it otherwise. I know I had a great time learning when I built my set of speakers a few months back. No real idea what I was getting myself into, and it turned out great.

[trebejo]

It's not about having fun.  It's  about buying something from someone that will not show you how he did it.

That's why it's irresponsible. The video could have been uploaded, but only the promo was uploaded instead. We don't have to wonder why, do we.

There are other words besides "irresponsible" but I'll just stick to that one. Post the video showing how it's done, so people  can see how much trouble they're getting into. Specially if a pair of fine speakers from Magnepan can be ruined.

[westly197]

For me the video is more for to decide if I want to move forward with it. I want to see the size of the parts and the space available. Once I get in there I’m confident I’ll figure it out, and I know I’ll void my warranty and change the market of who might buy my LRS if I decide to move up. I actually have both the LRS and some 1.6 QR’s I just ran across a deal on. I’m still deciding which ones I want to keep, I am in a small room so the LRS might be sized right. The update to quasi ribbons for the mid and bass does seem to be an improvement over the older design. I’m also working on better feet as that has a big effect.

As far as crossover work, several years ago I reworked all the crossovers on all my speakers with better parts - same values and didn’t even touch the inductors. I thought it made an improvement and didn’t think much of it at the time. But a few years later I got a second pair identical to the ones I upgraded. They sounded so dull and flat, just not great and as I puzzled as to why until I realized it was the crossovers. The difference was huge, but I only realized how big when I went from upgraded back to OEM. I had also noticed my old speakers always seemed to sound better than newer, “better” models. I think in the reasonable priced stuff the manufacturers leave a lot of performance on the table with cheap crossovers.

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Seems pretty irresponsible to make money by aggressively promoting such a modification while failing to document your own path  to that upgrade.

There is really no excuse for putting up a long video on youtube without showing what was actually done.

That is simply s a matter of perspective.
One mans fears/risk is another mans challenge.

Either way, the responsibility is on you (the customer) in the end to asses your own confidence and skill and understand the risks involved.

If you aren't willing to accept the risks, or challenges, associated with DIY projects, then you shouldn't take them on or should leave them to professionals or those with the knowledge/skill willing to take the risks.

[trebejo]

A convenient excuse.

Publish the video. Show people what they're really getting into.

[Peter J]

It's not about having fun.  It's  about buying something from someone that will not show you how he did it.

That's why it's irresponsible. The video could have been uploaded, but only the promo was uploaded instead. We don't have to wonder why, do we.

There are other words besides "irresponsible" but I'll just stick to that one. Post the video showing how it's done, so people  can see how much trouble they're getting into. Specially if a pair of fine speakers from Magnepan can be ruined.

It's evidently not about any enjoyment for you, but that's not true of everyone. It's not as if anyone is forcing you to do it and with the trepidation you apparently feel, I'd say you'd be best to steer clear.

Irresponsible it is not. Lacking in what you wish to see would be a better description, methinks.

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Even if we wanted to, we don't have an LRS here to make such a video, and it's not our responsibility to make a how-to video for every upgrade kit we offer.

But I'll say it again, if you're not comfortable with taking on the responsibility and risks that comes with a DIY project, don't take it on, and don't spend the money.

It's not that difficult.

[cjsailer]

There's tons of people on here willing to help out with an upgrade or new speaker build.  But if you come at with this kind of energy, nobody really benefits.  Sure there's other vendors that cater to the DIY market that do a better job of documentation, agreed.   But there's also a price premium there.  I basically had no real electrical or soldering skills prior to taking on these audio DIY kits.  But I've managed to do one speaker upgrade and built three pairs of speakers from GR Research.

[Tyson]

It's not about having fun.  It's  about buying something from someone that will not show you how he did it.

That's why it's irresponsible. The video could have been uploaded, but only the promo was uploaded instead. We don't have to wonder why, do we.

There are other words besides "irresponsible" but I'll just stick to that one. Post the video showing how it's done, so people  can see how much trouble they're getting into. Specially if a pair of fine speakers from Magnepan can be ruined.

You sound like a butthurt maggie owner.  If so, please go clutch your pearls somewhere else.

[trebejo]

Thanks for all the kind advice.

Go ahead and upload the video showing how you did it, or don't. No need to make comments about my anatomy.

[westly197]

You have to keep in mind this is very DIY and they are selling parts in a kit, not a complete solution. He basically does the testing of the sound and specks out parts to correct the sound after verifying they work well, but you have to figure out how to assemble the parts, attach, etc. This is not a paint by numbers type of kit, it may be beyond the skill set of a novice or someone expecting to be told step by step. You get a basic schematic and parts list, the rest is up to you to figure out - he’s just doing what you can’t effectively do without equipment and experience.

I went ahead and called them to get rough dimensions of the two inductors and one Sonicap in the kit (per side). They are as follows: first inductor is 3” x 3/4” thick, second is 2 1/4” x 1/2 thick and the cap is 1 3/4” x 1.5” thick. I’m going to take a close look at the LRS and see what I can come with. I also confirmed the female tube connector will accept a banana plug, so the speaker will continue to be able to utilize banana connectors as well as tube connectors if needed. The tube connectors are retained by friction and the same force used to keep the connection tight, no retainer on the outside if anyone wonders as I did.

[Tyson]

Thanks for all the kind advice.

Go ahead and upload the video showing how you did it, or don't. No need to make comments about my anatomy.

True.  I should not have called you a butthurt Maggie owner.  Do see that it was in response to your very aggressive posts earlier in this thread? 

Anyway, back on topic - videos are great and I hope Danny releases one.  However not everybody needs that.  Speaking for myself, I’d just build out an external crossover box with the new parts and wire that directly to the drivers, bypassing the internal crossover completely. 

[trebejo]

True.  I should not have called you a butthurt Maggie owner.  Do see that it was in response to your very aggressive posts earlier in this thread? 

Anyway, back on topic - videos are great and I hope Danny releases one.  However not everybody needs that.  Speaking for myself, I’d just build out an external crossover box with the new parts and wire that directly to the drivers, bypassing the internal crossover completely.

Thank you, I accept your apology, and although I do not think my questions are nearly as aggressive as the videos posted at youtube for the whole world to see--nonetheless we are all human and I'm sure there are better ways to say things, myself included.

If I do not try to be particularly objective, I would say that Magnepan is a very nice company, that is remarkably good to its customers both in pricing and service. The internet is full of testimonies of Maggies going back to Minnesota after decades of use and being serviced for very reasonable fees. There is a huge forum on another site where the users have been carrying out modifications since before some of us were born. Their attitude as well as their work deserves to be respected, and in my opinion, alterations of their products should be properly documented.

If I try to be more objective, I think it is important not to encourage people to get in over their heads. If Maggies were easy to come by, or easy to service, the risk would be lessened. But the situation is that people have to wait for months just to receive a new pair. I can only imagine the reaction at Maggie central when someone needs to have their speakers serviced due to their DIY attempt while others are patiently waiting for months to receive a new one. That would be reason enough for me not to even think about doing such a thing.

Some see it differently, and are willing to try. The video showing how the recommended modification was actually performed by the person recommending it would only help the people that are already paying GR Research $$ for the kit, and I do not see a good reason for the reluctance to help those people. It would help the community at large as well, I'm sure.

[NoahH]

Trebejo - the gap here is that you are getting a very narrow slice of the wider context.

Crossover replacement is a reasonably common activity in the audio world. There are also not hundreds of variations in process - they are all the same conceptual parts - inductors, resistors and capacitors - and the same basic soldering between them. The differences between crossovers end up as ones of design and component quality. It is unlikely that a person could mechanically execute one crossover and not another. Thus there is no need for videos for each different crossover - Danny has videos of making crossovers. As for what they look like visually, he does not control that. He calls out when crossovers won't fit in the cabinet (or frame in the Maggie case). When that happens, it is up to the person building the kit to do a case or such. You can Google "Magnepan external crossover" and see many examples.

Second up is that this is not quite mainstream of revenue for GR (I don't believe). The bulk of their sales are for speaker kits. But Danny is very passionate about crossover design and parts quality and has done these upgrades forever and continues to do them. He takes *any speaker* someone sends and designs the improved crossover kit. If you send a speaker that has 20 instances in the world, he does these. It is not targeted at particular makers based on market size.

The last bit of context is that the current supply chain issues have made *every good audio brand* have backlogs. GR is actually.suffering from that. Magnepan is not some rare unicorn - it is the same boat as everyone else.

Now into that context you have described Danny as irresponsible for not posting a video on this very kit. Calling someone irresponsible is obviously aggressive. It also was inaccurate in this case. The above nicely explain why there is not a deep need for such a video. You can determine for yourself quite easily if you are up to the task or not looking at other crossover build videos.

The last note is that this forum gets someone every could weeks who is shocked - SHOCKED - that anyone would suggest the speaker they bought for $1000 could be improved, and that Danny has the audacity to suggest such a thing. You can literally replace your every message with the name of a different maker, and it would be unsurprising. Thus Tysons comment too.

If you want a speaker with top-quality parts out of the box, your only reliable bets are Wilson and Magico. If you don't want to throw around that kind of money, you can get a kit from GR or some others. If you want something that sounds good with unknown parts quality, do the normal game and listen and try. If you decide what you buy is not good enough, or you are ready for the next upgrade, get a crossover kit from GR.

But don't call people irresponsible without more expertise in the audio world.

[rollo]

That is simply s a matter of perspective.
One mans fears/risk is another mans challenge.

Either way, the responsibility is on you (the customer) in the end to asses your own confidence and skill and understand the risks involved.

If you aren't willing to accept the risks, or challenges, associated with DIY projects, then you shouldn't take them on or should leave them to professionals or those with the knowledge/skill willing to take the risks.

 Disagree. A customer spends the money and then hopes it works out ? You offer a Kit explain it that simple. Instructions as well. There are beginners out there as well. GR is a respectable Co and frankly I find your attitude poor. My 2 cents.

charles

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Disagree. A customer spends the money and then hopes it works out ? You offer a Kit explain it that simple. Instructions as well. There are beginners out there as well. GR is a respectable Co and frankly I find your attitude poor. My 2 cents.

charles

That's fine.

I'm well aware there are beginners, that is nothing new, I was one not so long ago. Sometimes they realize the project is over their heads, even simple ones that already has videos showing assembly.

In those cases, we're more than happy to help customers if they get stuck or have questions, but we don't always have the time/ability to make a video showing kit assembly, especially when direct assembly is not something we really offer, and even more so when we don't have X or Y speaker on hand to film/document the installation process longafter the fact.

You don't have to like it, I'm just being honest about the reality of the situation here, especially this long after that kit became available.

[nlitworld]

I'm not sure I agree with the idea they sell parts and you're on your own to figure it out, with no idea if it works or how to do it. In the speakers I built, I received a perfectly understandable wiring diagram with parts clearly labeled, and prompt reply to every message asking them questions from both GR employees and the rest of the community on this site. Everyone was always extremely helpful and a true community of enthusiastic DIYers. For all of their kits offered, there is a set of before vs after graphs to show the improvements with imperical evidence, I know they would include wiring diagrams, and a ton of help for anyone on this forum who asks.

I will agree that yes, everyone starts somewhere and novices need a bit more help. I too was a novice, but I did some research on how to solder, practiced a bit with speaker wires, and watched a few of Danny's videos on how to assemble a crossover. At that point it was like being taught 2 x 2 = 4 and 2 x 3 = 6 and then knowing I can adapt that basic knowledge to know 2 x 4 = 8. I didn't need separate instructions to specifically show every minute detail because once the fundamentals are understood, there is no difference for solving a different problem.

Even if that still sounds a bit too much for someone to take on due to not feeling comfortable enough or not enough time to do the project, I know there are several on this site who can be commissioned to assemble crossovers. Sometimes we all need to hire a mechanic and there is absolutely no shame in that. I can do a lot of mechanic work on my truck but if I needed a transmission replaced I would be calling a mechanic without question.

[WGH]

I'm not sure I agree with the idea they sell parts and you're on your own to figure it out...

Lots of places sell kit parts with minimal instructions and no video. I build a Hagerman Cornet2 phono preamp that way. Nelson Pass has been selling assorted loose parts in a box forever. The LSR upgrade kit is no different.

I used a lot of online resources to put together a build guide, got to do your research.

[Kaiju2189]

I think it is well understood that opening up a speaker and modifying will void any warranty. I tested Danny’s theory of better components improving sound quality and upgraded like for like parts in my Klipsch towers. There was no kit for my model but I picked up parts from SonicCraft and gave it a go. I am happy to report better parts can make for better sound.

I’ll be curious if more on modern speakers will increase value or make them harder to sell though, but I considered the latter before I started.

As with anything, don’t risk more than you are willing to lose.

[fre11111]

@Trebejo

I think the simple solution for people who are nervous or afraid of doing an upgrade is to hire a professional to do it for them. It is still cheaper than buying a new speaker. I find your complaining very negative to start, no offense. If you want to upgrade and need help there are members willing to help and guide you.

I started as a DIYER when I was in my teens and ruined alot of my equipment because of lack of resources. It is different now since we have the internet and forums like this who have members who help other members.

Your concern should be taken in consideration by Gr Research but your aggressive attitude is not very positive. I bet Danny himself will help and guide you if you do make an upgrade.

PS. PLEASE EXCUSE MY ENGLISH FOR I AM NOT AMERICAN