Announcing the "Insight+" low cost upgrade

avahifi · « **on:** 2 Mar 2009, 02:50 pm »

We have made the Insight preamplifiers and DACs better than ever simply by a change in the basic op-amp used in some of our circuit configurations.

The change is to replace the AD817 op-amps to Burr Brown OPA627AP op-amps where applicable. The affected circuits are the line and phono stages in the Insight preamplifiers (2 chips each), and the current to voltage amplifier section in the Insight, T8, and Ultra DACs, (and in some older OmegaStar DACs too) again two chips each.

The cost is $35 per chip plus $10 shipping for do it yourselvers. You will need to carefully locate and remove the 8-pin AD817 ICs from their sockets and replace them with the OPA627AP devices without bending any pins over and being sure to get them installed with the correct orientation. If you uncertain of your ability to do the chip swap yourself, we will do it for an additional $50 charge for the installation and bench testing.

All new applicable AVA products are now shipping with this improvement. If you purchased within the past 30 days the upgrade is free. Its your choice to do it yourself or to send it in for the upgrade. However we are not responsible for chips damaged by incorrect installation. No satisfaction guarantee on this project.

You may be able to find the Burr Brown OPA627AP chips elsewhere at a lower price, but all of the ones we supply will be in-circuit tested before shipping.

Call me for more details at 651-330-9871. The result is lower noise, removal of the last trace of sold state dryness, a nicer sound stage, and even better transparency and real detail.

The improvement does not apply to any current AVA power amplifiers as these do not use op-amps in their circuits.

Shipping right now.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

martyo · « **Reply #1 on:** 2 Mar 2009, 03:00 pm »

I'll take 2 Frank, for my Ultra. Already sent you a pm.

rlee8394 · « **Reply #2 on:** 2 Mar 2009, 06:11 pm »

Frank,

What engineering aspect of the BB OPA627AP is responsible for these improvements. Looking at the data sheet, it seems to be inferior spec-wise to the other op-amps form AD such as as AD843, AD845, AD817, AD847, and AD818. At least with respect to slew rate, settling time, and output impedance. Noise figures and output current seems about even. With a slew rate of of about one third that of the AD817 and settling time about ten times longer, this op-amp doesn't seem, on casual inspection anyway, to match the qualities of even the OmegaStar series, which had I believe an 800 uv/S slew rate.
Just a bit confused.

Thanks,

Ron

gjs_cds · « **Reply #3 on:** 2 Mar 2009, 09:07 pm »

So we're talking $80 bucks (2 chips plus shipping) per product? (In my case, an Insight DAC.) Seems like a great deal to me!

Thanks for continuing to service your older products, Frank. I know some people whine and complain about it from time to time, but I see it as a great service advantage in all of your products.

avahifi · « **Reply #4 on:** 2 Mar 2009, 09:08 pm »

Yes confusing, but in our circuits (which are more than just an op-amp so many of the design considerations simply don't apply) the 627 exhibits better stability in the ultrasonic region and has about half the broad band noise signature of the AD817.

In simple listening tests to IC circuits alone, I would still pick the 817. But in our circuit the 627 is simply better.

Note that it is a FET input device with excellent centerline stability which is useful too. It is the most darn expensive linear out there I guess, but oh well, still inexpensive enough to go to without raising prices in new production.

Regards,

Frank

rlee8394 · « **Reply #5 on:** 2 Mar 2009, 09:39 pm »

Frank,
Fair enough on the explanation. This brings up a few more follow-up questions:

1) Since the 627 works so well with it's slew rate of 55 uV/S, does that mean that faster devices are overkill for audio?

2) If the 817 was the original device for the Insight Series, then it too seems to be a departure from previous fast devices of the OmegaStar and prior Omega devices. Would the same explanation also apply to the 817? It's the circuit and not merely the device.

3) In the past, you have been quite guarded on the actual active device being used in the OmegaStar line and it's predecessors, the Omega, Omega II, III, and IV. Why the apparent change of position of identifying the device in the Insight Series? Would you mind identifying the active device in the prior Omega line?

4) I see that there is a Texas Instruments version of the OPA627AP. Would that be an entirely different chip? Don't know If TI bought BB or not.

Thanks again,
Ron

rcag_ils · « **Reply #6 on:** 2 Mar 2009, 09:51 pm »

Frank, in your message, you didn't mention any passive components that needed to be changed out to accommodate the new chip, so is it strictly a "chip swap" and nothing else, just want to be sure.

BradJudy · « **Reply #7 on:** 2 Mar 2009, 09:56 pm »

Quote from: rlee8394 on 2 Mar 2009, 09:39 pm

4) I see that there is a Texas Instruments version of the OPA627AP. Would that be an entirely different chip? Don't know If TI bought BB or not.

TI bought BB in 2000.

Wayner · « **Reply #8 on:** 2 Mar 2009, 11:56 pm »

It is just a chip swap. I finished my 2 Insight EC preamps this last Friday. I did the phono board first and listened to just that for 2 days. Then I did the line board. I really haven't listened to anything else but the Insight/U70/Dynaco speaker combination yet, but the system is awesome right now. HD FM from my Onkyo T4555 is pretty spectacular. Vinyl is fantastic as well. Big soundstage, Very Dynamic and totally non-SS sounding. I kept my old chips, but I'm not going backwards.

Wayner

oneinthepipe · « **Reply #9 on:** 3 Mar 2009, 12:56 am »

Frank received my Insight SL and Insight DAC last Thursday, upgraded and bench tested the components today, and will ship the preamp and DAC back to me tomorrow. That is customer service!

Now, I am just waiting for those Salk HT2 TL speakers.

gjs_cds · « **Reply #10 on:** 3 Mar 2009, 02:50 am »

Quote from: oneinthepipe on 3 Mar 2009, 12:56 am

Frank received my Insight SL and Insight DAC last Thursday, upgraded and bench tested the components today, and will ship the preamp and DAC back to me tomorrow. That is customer service!

Hey Pipe--I'd love to hear your before/after review. I know it's not true A/B comparison, because of the amount of time between the two sessions...but I'm interested to hear what us commoners are hearing/saying about the new chip upgrade.

JerryM · « **Reply #11 on:** 3 Mar 2009, 03:10 am »

Chip rolling. Sweet!

oneinthepipe · « **Reply #12 on:** 3 Mar 2009, 03:38 am »

Frank is going to receive my T8 DAC, also for the chip upgrade, tomorrow. I'll be "in big" with our local UPS driver later this week/next week.

Even though I won't be able to A-B the pre-upgrade and post-upgrade Insight SL and Insight DAC, I know that they will be sweet. They were sweet before the upgrades, and if Frank determined that the upgraded chips are better, I know that they will be even sweeter after the upgrades. I will be able to compare the Insight DAC and the T8 DAC side-by-side, and I can provide my comparison of the DACs, in addition to the "commoner's" impressions of the upgraded Insight preamp and DAC.

JerryM · « **Reply #13 on:** 3 Mar 2009, 04:41 am »

Quote from: oneinthepipe on 3 Mar 2009, 03:38 am

I will be able to compare the Insight DAC and the T8 DAC side-by-side, and I can provide my comparison of the DACs, in addition to the "commoner's" impressions of the upgraded Insight preamp and DAC.

Very cool, OITP!!!

Too bad you can't get your hands on an Ultra DAC as well. You could have your own personal AVA DAC shootout!

I look forward to reading your impressions.

Have fun,
Jerry

robinje · « **Reply #14 on:** 3 Mar 2009, 03:14 pm »

I just ordered a pair of new opamps for my Ultra DAC. I would normally send the unit in for an upgrade, but simply unplugging old chips and installing replacements seems about as easy as an upgrade can get. Hopefully, even I can handle this one!

turkey · « **Reply #15 on:** 3 Mar 2009, 03:55 pm »

Quote from: avahifi on 2 Mar 2009, 09:08 pm

Note that it is a FET input device with excellent centerline stability which is useful too. It is the most darn expensive linear out there I guess, but oh well, still inexpensive enough to go to without raising prices in new production.

The OPA627BP version is even more expensive.

(I don't see that they'd be better in this application - just more expensive.)

avahifi · « **Reply #16 on:** 3 Mar 2009, 11:39 pm »

Many earlier AVA solid state products used AD847 linears, and usually AD845s in the phono section. Many years ago we used OP17s but it was a nightmare selecting ones that were quiet enough. The AD845 was necessary in the phono section for low frequency stability reasons, the AD817 has a larger than normal die area for its current amplifier section, reducing thermal feedback distortion when the circuit is stressed.
These devices were also used with a combination of current buffers over the years and still are.

The 627 devices simply exhibit better wide band stability and linearity in our circuit configuration. They might not be the best choice in circuits where they have to drive a real world load.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

rlee8394 · « **Reply #17 on:** 4 Mar 2009, 03:00 am »

Frank,
Thanks for the explanation. Sounds like a good analogy for the 627 is that of a vacuum tube. On it's own driving real world loads it has some limitations. Properly used in AVA circuits, it can excel.

Ron

heiba · « **Reply #18 on:** 4 Mar 2009, 12:00 pm »

Sent rlee8394 another personal message yesterday.

Ola

rlee8394 · « **Reply #19 on:** 5 Mar 2009, 04:13 am »

Wayner,

I know your a big fan of vinyl. This evening on the way home I stopped at the local Best Buy. They have a small setup to sell Apple products. I was hoping that they had the newly released Mac Mini to check out (they didn't). Anyway, I strolled past their Magnolia Home Theater display. They usually have a concert video playing on the big screen and Hi-Fi setup. For the longest time it was the Eagles, they had several boxes of DVD's and Blu-Ray DVD's on the table in front of the setup for those who want to purchase what is playing. Tonight they had the Police's new live set, again in both Blu-Ray and regular DVD. What shocked me was that they had the entire concert released in vinyl. Yep, a three disc set for $29.99. Tey were billing it as the ultimate DRM-free format!!

Anyway I thought of you. I too love vinyl but didn't expect to see a new release from a mass market rock group in Best Buy of all places. Thought only new releases were available from places like Music Direct and Todd the Vinyl Junkie. Don't know if The Police is you cup of tea, but thought you might like to know.

Ron