High sensitivity, open baffle, single ended lovers dream speaker...

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Nick77

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Danny, are these the speakers that you hinted at in a previous pic of the W frame OB servos?


No, that was something different and still coming (Super 7 model).

Can a ob/7 become a Super 7 or entirely different beast?

Rocket_Ronny

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Hi Danny:

Since everyone have asked questions I might as well throw in some.

1. How do these image compared to the OBs and LSs?

2. With the woofs going up to 200 hz, how does the bass fair for speed and detail compared to the LS's, or OBs?

3. I can see you picked the driver for it's high qts for open baffle, but have you considered the 38 drivers? The next level up in the series. I have heard they are another big step forward in clarity and realism?

4. And finally, everyone chant, WE WANT KITS, WE WANT KITS, WE WANT KITS.


Rocket_Ronny

Danny Richie


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Any news on the Super 7?

I'll release a ton of info on them soon. I need to give Eric a little time to complete the cabinets and right now I have him covered up with other stuff.

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I've used P-audio drivers a few times and found that their quality varies *greatly* from one to another.

I have yet to see an issue like that but will be very wary of it and will look closely at the QC. I am a real stickler for that stuff.

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Would it be too difficult to put all the voice coils in the same plane?

I have considered it, but with the crossover point to the lower woofers being at about 180Hz (a 6 foot long wavelength) a six inch or less offset isn't much in the way of phase rotation. Linkwitz's uses the same configuration on the Orion is it can't be all bad. It adds a lot to the stability of it with the currently designed offset. That doesn't mean that it won't change though.

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Can a ob/7 become a Super 7 or entirely different beast?

The Super 7 is a completely different animal and will be over the top good.

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How do these image compared to the OBs and LSs?


Ask me after I have lived with a pair of them for a while. Right now it is too soon to tell.

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With the woofs going up to 200 hz, how does the bass fair for speed and detail compared to the LS's, or OBs?

I am really not making any comparisons yet. For now I'll just say that it is really, really good.

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I can see you picked the driver for it's high qts for open baffle, but have you considered the 38 drivers?

I looked at all of them and these look ike the best for this application. The higher sensitivity woofers simply won't play down low enough and didn't have as smooth a response.

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And finally, everyone chant, WE WANT KITS, WE WANT KITS, WE WANT KITS

We'll see.


dweekie

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Danny, have you tried the pricier CX38 series yet?  That has been getting some hype in the Open Baffle forums, and they were present at RMAF (18" model).  These P.Audio drivers have grabbed my interest the past few weeks, and I am seriosly considering going that route once I get some funds squared away. 

Danny Richie

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Danny, have you tried the pricier CX38 series yet?

That was the first one that came to my attention, but the response is way to rough and the Qts is way to low for it to be used in an open baffle. I'd never get the woofer to play down low enough to reach the servo subs and it wouldn't work.

ttan98

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Danny,

How does the P.Audio BM 12" compared to your M130 and Neo in MTM configuration? Is the sound quality from BM 12" is at least comparable or superior to M130 and Neo combo OR just different? you see the BM is about $254 each from Loudspeaker plus and your M130 and neo combo is so much cheaper.

BTW can we replace the BM 12" with the 10", BM-10CXA from PAudio you see in Australia there is a sale,refer to website below:
http://www.cannonsound.com.au/p/577321/paudio-bm-10cxa-300-watt-10-inch-coaxial.html
selling at AUD$149.50 each. I think for smaller enclosure/room this woofer is suffice.

BTW AUD$1 is a about US$0.62

JLM

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How do these image compared to the OBs and LSs?


Ask me after I have lived with a pair of them for a while. Right now it is too soon to tell.



Too soon to tell?   :dunno:

I've had 8 - 58 years olds who, upon sitting down in front of my speakers, were slackjawed and wide eyed to hear stereo imaging for the first time.  This is the entry/beginning point for any high end audio system.  It is the premise for stereo itself.

TRADERXFAN

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I don't think this is about hearing stereo imaging for the first time!

 I think its about gauging subtle differences between excellence.

Wind Chaser


How is this? Not bad for a first order crossover on a big driver.




There's an 8 db swing in the midrange. :?  How much can that be flattened out?

Danny Richie

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How does the P.Audio BM 12" compared to your M130 and Neo in MTM configuration? Is the sound quality from BM 12" is at least comparable or superior to M130 and Neo combo OR just different? you see the BM is about $254 each from Loudspeaker plus and your M130 and neo combo is so much cheaper.

I will be holding off the comparisons for a while until I have lived with a pair of them.

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BTW can we replace the BM 12" with the 10", BM-10CXA from PAudio you see in Australia there is a sale,refer to website below:
http://www.cannonsound.com.au/p/577321/paudio-bm-10cxa-300-watt-10-inch-coaxial.html
selling at AUD$149.50 each. I think for smaller enclosure/room this woofer is suffice.

Qts is a little lower and the Fs is higher but it looks really good. I kind of questioned whether or not I could get that one to play low enough in free air, but I may have to try it anyway. At least it would help keep the front baffle width narrower.

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How do these image compared to the OBs and LSs?


Again, no comparisons yet.

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There's an 8 db swing in the midrange.   How much can that be flattened out?

Look at the scale again there Wind Chaser.

First of all the heart of the midrange is 300 to 500Hz. Secondly the swing from 600Hz to 1200Hz is only 3db. That is still within a +/-1.5db range.
« Last Edit: 30 Oct 2008, 02:37 pm by Danny »

mcgsxr

As one of the mods of the Open Baffle forum, I am likely biased, but these sure look good to me.  Both visually and in terms of response.

Hope that Denny ends up constructing a pair for someone up in the GTA and I get to sneak a listen!

corndog71

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Now this is an exciting project!  Open baffle, full range AND high sensitivity!

Still kinda pricey but I would think the cabinet wouldn't be too challenging.

And it's a LOT cheaper than the Orion!

I would be interested also to get your opinion of this design without the rear-firing tweeters.  That could save a few bucks.

I look forward to more updates.

AK

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Danny can you post crossover scematic you used for p.audio drivers, If it's not a secret of course.
according to commonsenseaudio dealer p.audio drivers sound good full range, just with single cap on tweeter.

Danny Richie

Well, I will tell you this. There is no way you can run that woofer full range and blend it with the tweeter. Not unless you are looking to cross it really high, and that would be a mistake. Plus you would have no compensation for the baffle step loss.

Tmantn

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Danny,

I think you are really on to something here.  I have not heard this driver before, but I'll take your word on the sound quality.

BTW, What made you think of using a coaxial driver?

Have you heard the 2 way drivers from Great Plains Audio?  If so how would you compare to the P-Audio?

Did you modify the crossover with Sonic caps and Foil Inductors?

I love the drawings.  OB RULES!!!

« Last Edit: 4 Nov 2008, 01:41 pm by Tmantn »

Wind Chaser

Danny,

I'm curious, have you heard the new Hawthorne Audio Sterling driver?  A former Emerald Physics CS-2 owner basically says it crushes the CS-2 in in every regard.

Here's the link http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=61190.msg547573#msg547573

BTW, what tweeter are you using in your coaxial?

Danny Richie

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BTW, What made you think of using a coaxial driver?

When you get into these larger diameter high sensitivity drivers you almost have to. The diameter of the woofers are so large that adding a separate tweeter causes the acoustic centers to be pushed so far away from each other that there is no way to get the drivers to blend properly without using really low crossover points. Let's face it, there aren't too many tweeters out there that can be comfortably crossed over in or below the 1kHz range. Otherwise there are sever lobbing errors and cancellations in the vertical off axis plane.

Plus a few buddies of mine felt that this particular driver was something special. So I had them send me a pair to mess with.

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Have you heard the 2 way drivers from Great Plains Audio?

I don't think so.

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Did you modify the crossover with Sonic caps and Foil Inductors?

I designed the crossover and can use whatever quality of parts that I want. I am currently working on a pair that will take the configuration about as far as it can go and then I'll know more about just how good it really is.

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I'm curious, have you heard the new Hawthorne Audio Sterling driver?

I don't think so.

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BTW, what tweeter are you using in your coaxial?

It is the stock P Audio driver.

Danny Richie


Okay, I have spent a little time now with this ugly prototype pair.



I also added a brace and some No Rez to the W frame lower section. That seemed to tighten up the bass response and made it a little cleaner still.

These things are still burning in but I have formed some initial thoughts.

The bass response is as good as anything I have ever heard. It maybe better than anything I have every heard. It plays really low, tight, and clean very much like an LS-9 but has an advantage in that it just doesn't load the room. It hits, it hits hard, and then it's over. There is no delayed decay of room pressure.

These will play really loud, and really clean to really high levels. Dynamics are scary good. They reproduced the drum solo demo better than anything I have ever heard. These speakers do real drums.

The speakers project a nice deep sound stage with solid placements. Nothing really appears to come from the speakers themselves unless something is recorded panned just to one side only. Vocals are solid to the center with good depth and very good body. I am a real stickler for female vocals and so far they pass with flying colors.

The sound of a piano is another something that I am a real sticker for. I think these handle the attack and initial strike of the piano as well as anything I have heard. They just seem to have a really quick response time, like the rise of the transient response is there in spades. The tonality of the first strike of the piano's notes are also as realistic as I have heard from any speaker (and I have a piano in my house). What I am still a little less than impressed with is the trailing edge of the piano notes. It betters what I hear from most dome tweeters, but doesn't seem to let go of the note quite as fast as the planar magnetic tweeters that I use in many of my other designs. The planar magnetics hit the note and then let go of it, returning back to the black background a little more quickly. This compression driver sounds like it holds on to it just a little bit longer. Some of this may go away with more break in time on it though so I feel it is still early for me to make a judgement on it yet.

Acoustic guitars sound great, and putting a little volume on them really gives you a sense for the body of the guitar and the vibrance of the body itself. This is often lost with most speakers.

Then there is what it does with amplified electric guitar....  :guitar:  It's like the performers guitar amp is sitting right in front of you. I played some Jeff Beck at really insane levels yesterday and it was easily the most realistic playback I have ever heard from that track. I think it is called "Space for the Papa", or something like that. These speakers have the real feel of the guitar down really well.

In one word I'd have to sum these speakers up as really "FUN" speakers.

KS

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Two BM12CXA = $500
Four SW-12-16FR = $600
Two A370PEQ sub amps = $580
Plus crossovers & stuff

How would it work with just one sub unit one side, and the other side an empty cabinet, maybe filled with something like this?

ttan98

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Danny,

Your speakers configuration is similar to Seigfried Linkwitz and his Orion open baffles, except that his system is heavily equalized, is your speakers' characteristics similar to that Orion? I have not heard the Orion.

When you say "In one word I'd have to sum these speakers up as really "FUN" speakers" Do you think after you have finalised these speakers they can be considered as a pair of reference speakers for playing music 2 way at home? I am sure a lot of people will consider Orion in that category. At the end of the day these speakers are not cheap just considering the costs of speakers drivers alone. Also one has to consider comparing these speakers against speakers like OB5 and OB7(both of them much cheaper), they must be clearly sound better for DIYers to consider building them.

Thks