Modifying the LCR-15 Center Speaker

WGH · « **on:** 6 Apr 2010, 05:43 am »

A few weeks ago I demoed my modified VR2's for a client. He was completely blown because his VR2s did not have the bass definition, precise imaging and overall clarity as mine. He recently drove down from Phoenix with his VR2's and LCR-15 speakers so I could do my magic.

The LCR-15

I started on the LCR-15 center speaker first because I wanted to do something different. The small speaker was the perfect candidate to try out No Rez. One 24" x 27" sheet was plenty and I could use the remainder in the VR2's. No Rez cuts easily with a table saw and the application took only an hour after I figured out how to remove the speakers.

Speaker Removal

The two 5" mid-range speakers are tightly fit into precisely cut recesses. The only way to remove them is to screw a large wood screw into one of the mounting holes. Pull on the screw and the speaker pops out. I ground down the screw tip so it wouldn't grab the particleboard box. The crowbar was a bit of overkill but it worked like a champ.

What's Inside the Box?

Not much. A little thin felt, some fluff as seen on the left, and minimal bracing. Nothing is glued so all the padding is just flopping around in there.

No Rez Installation

This was so quick and easy no pictures are required. Cut, peel, stick. I covered the 4 sides, put the rear felt and fluff back in and buttoned it up in less than an hour.

How Does It Sound?

Stay tuned, I haven't tried it out yet. Anyone in Tucson have a mono amp they can loan me? I'll give the speakers a test run in a day or two but everything is going back to Phoenix Wednesday afternoon.

Wayne

es347 · « **Reply #1 on:** 6 Apr 2010, 01:41 pm »

Gotta hear how these things sound!

ceedee · « **Reply #2 on:** 6 Apr 2010, 06:01 pm »

Hello WGH,

Looks like you are the man with the two right hands.

Hope you live nearby VSA?
They can use your help in these days.

Cor

Indiansprings · « **Reply #3 on:** 7 Apr 2010, 03:11 am »

Mine

I have heard Wayne's VR2's. I was very impressed. When properly braced, as Wayne has done, they become a speaker that is at a completely different price-point. They are detailed, fast, have wonderful imaging, hit hard and low. This was my chance to have a speaker that is completely out of my price range. That is how good they sound. I asked Wayne if he would make mine sound like his for free. He said no problem

Well not quite, but he does incredible work for what he charges. I cant wait to get them home and try them all out. I will keep you all posted.
*Edited* for spelling correction.

es347 · « **Reply #4 on:** 7 Apr 2010, 01:49 pm »

Not sure what a detained speaker sounds like...

Just messin' with ya.

WGH · « **Reply #5 on:** 7 Apr 2010, 08:35 pm »

Quote from: ceedee on 6 Apr 2010, 06:01 pm

Hello WGH,

Looks like you are the man with the two right hands.

Hope you live nearby VSA?
They can use your help in these days.

Cor

Thanks Cor...but I'm left handed.

I'm available, maybe Albert would like to re-locate to the sunny Southwest.

WGH · « **Reply #6 on:** 7 Apr 2010, 09:36 pm »

I finally plugged in the LCR-15 and was not impressed. Indiansprings dropped the speakers off at my shop and I never listened to the stock LCR-15 but it must sound pretty bad if the No Rez model was uninspiring. The speaker is tonally similar to the VR2 but there is a definite chestiness to male vocals. Music has a nice thump but since this is a center speaker designed for vocals the LCR-15 needed a little emasculating.

I'm a big fan of Kapok. The material is light as a feather but has the ability to damp resonances and standing waves much better than Dacron, I'm guessing by a factor of 2:1. A little goes a long way so I stuffed that little box full of Kapok. Then taking a tip from Frank Van Alstine I damped the speaker baskets with plasti-clay.

The results are a speaker I can live with. Tight and tuneful, no chestiness or low bass to speak of, exactly the qualities needed for a center speaker. I consider the modifications a complete success.

Below is the LCR-15 sitting on top a couple of VR2's. The left speaker is mine, the light maple is the speaker I recently modified for Indiansprings.

Readers not familiar with my VR2 mods can read more here and here. Below are a couple of photos, the first are the braces used in one speaker and the second is a new installation photo. The top section now has a brace every 3". The bottom section has a larger brace mid-way with Richlite glued above and below the brace (4 pieces total).

Wayne

es347 · « **Reply #7 on:** 7 Apr 2010, 11:33 pm »

Hey Wayne,

It seems that Albert's biggest headache is finding a decent cabinet builder. Your work is first rate so any chance of you becoming a VSA subcontractor?

WGH · « **Reply #8 on:** 8 Apr 2010, 01:09 am »

I think Albert would need a bigger shop than mine since I work solo. I wouldn't be able to move many of the speakers he designs by myself. I know of a couple of excellent cabinet shops that may be looking for a new opportunity. All the guys in these shops are perfectionists and have 30 years of experience, they are just terrible at marketing themselves. I can be contacted through my signature.

Wayne

Indiansprings · « **Reply #9 on:** 10 Apr 2010, 03:39 pm »

First let me say this. I would like to extend a huge THANK YOU to Wayne. He went out of his way to get everything finished for me within a very limited window of time. He also took time out of his busy schedule to cut me 5 CD's of great music.
I got everything home and installed back into my theater. There is a huge improvement in every aspect. I have several hours of listening into them now. The VR2's are much more DYNAMIC after these mods. The entire sound-stage is greatly improved. The smallest details are clear. I am excited when I fire my system up again. I will post more after I watch some movies and get a little more seat time. I would recommend this upgrade to anyone that has VR2's.

azhtnut · « **Reply #10 on:** 10 Apr 2010, 04:56 pm »

Has anyone completed the LCR-15 mod by VSA? I was getting ready to send my VR4-jrs and LCR-15 to VSA in a couple of weeks for their mods, but received an email this week from Albert. Due to the success of their VR-33's, they are backed up on doing the mods. Here is part of the email from Albert regarding the LCR-15 upgrade. I assume the damping is similar to the mod you're doing. He also adds Scanspeak drivers to the LCR-15 per below.

I am in Phoenix and am torn about having you mod these. I'd like to know if the Scanspeak drivers add even more detail to LCR-15.

Date: Wednesday, February 17, 2010, 6:35 PM

Hello Marty,
The cabinet damping I discussed entails the building of another internal wall of artificial stones to brace the MDF, then another layer of rubberized felt is glued on top of the stone layer – it is quite complex and helps the speaker cabinet to disappear as a source of resonance. ... If I have two guys on it, 8 hours per day, I think we can do the mod in about 2 days ...

The LCR-15 can be upgraded to the same level, with the Scanspeak drivers and internal wall damping layer added. The LCR-15 mod elevates the clarity by at least 100% and is $700 for all parts and labor. You will most likely enjoy this mod while watching movies, as the dialog clarity is simply amazing.

...

Cheers,
Albert Von Schweikert

scp2 · « **Reply #11 on:** 10 Apr 2010, 06:03 pm »

Yikes

I was afraid that would happen. The VR4 jr mods are in my future as well. I was glad to hear about the lcr15 mods..I have one I don't use...but would probably mod it and put it to use.

I am not quite ready...did Albert give any inclination when he might be able to resume moddong?

WGH · « **Reply #12 on:** 10 Apr 2010, 08:17 pm »

A couple of thoughts about speaker modding:

Your warranty - you probably have a 10 year warranty if you bought your speakers from an authorized VSA dealer, I don't know how my work effects the warranty.

Shipping - you probably have a 50/50 chance of something getting damaged. Who pays if it happens? And what the heck do you do with one good speaker?

I believe you can buy the custom Scanspeak drivers from VSA and do it yourself. 1" Richlite and No Rez will probably get real close to what the factory is doing.

Luckily for azhtnut there is a modified LCR-15 (stock drivers) in Phoenix he can (maybe) listen to. If you get the Scanspeak upgrade for the VR4jr then I think the center should match as well. I did a demo with the VR2 on the left and the LCR-15 on the right and it sounded great with a solid center image, the only difference was less bass.

Wayne

azhtnut · « **Reply #13 on:** 11 Apr 2010, 04:12 am »

Here's his response from Weds. to my email asking to schedule the mod for the week of 4/25:

Hello Marty,
I just had a meeting with our production people and they’re behind about 3-4 weeks due to the huge success of our new VR-33. Please contact me in 3 weeks for an update, we look forward to upgrading your system!
Albert

Quote from: WGH on 10 Apr 2010, 08:17 pm

A couple of thoughts about speaker modding:

Your warranty - you probably have a 10 year warranty if you bought your speakers from an authorized VSA dealer, I don't know how my work effects the warranty.

Shipping - you probably have a 50/50 chance of something getting damaged. Who pays if it happens? And what the heck do you do with one good speaker?

I believe you can buy the custom Scanspeak drivers from VSA and do it yourself. 1" Richlite and No Rez will probably get real close to what the factory is doing.

Luckily for azhtnut there is a modified LCR-15 (stock drivers) in Phoenix he can (maybe) listen to. If you get the Scanspeak upgrade for the VR4jr then I think the center should match as well. I did a demo with the VR2 on the left and the LCR-15 on the right and it sounded great with a solid center image, the only difference was less bass.

Wayne

azhtnut · « **Reply #14 on:** 11 Apr 2010, 04:16 am »

Sorry WGH, I hit the Quote button on your response. I meant to respond to scp2's posting.

scp2 · « **Reply #15 on:** 11 Apr 2010, 04:29 am »

Thanks az....I hope it works out for you...keep us posted as it goes. I am happy and sad about the vr-33's...I would go that direction except I love my jr's..and am hoping for an upgrade to them...if not I could live with them like they are...as they are an incredible speaker.

Delacroix · « **Reply #16 on:** 5 May 2010, 08:14 pm »

Quote from: WGH on 7 Apr 2010, 09:36 pm

I

I'm a big fan of Kapok. The material is light as a feather but has the ability to damp resonances and standing waves much better than Dacron, I'm guessing by a factor of 2:1. A little goes a long way so I stuffed that little box full of Kapok.
Wayne

Wayne, I am inspired by your account to start playing around with some of this stuff but where does on find this Kapok?

thanks

WGH · « **Reply #17 on:** 5 May 2010, 08:52 pm »

I got it at my neighborhood foam and fabric store, they get it in bulk in huge bags. If you Google "kapok filling" there are a lot of sellers.

Amazon sells it $25 for 5 lbs:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HGFHP0

Same photo - Opentip.com $12.50 for 5 lbs
http://www.opentip.com/Home-Garden/Bean-Products-Extra-Kapok-Fill-p-999327.html

So it looks like it pays to shop around.

If you can't find it locally and just want a few ounces to stuff a center speaker I can put enough in a box and send you some. What are you stuffing?

Kapok Info -

Kapok is a fiber extracted from the seedpod of the kapok tree. The tree is grown chiefly in mainland Asia and in Indonesia. Sometimes called silk cotton or Java cotton, this moisture-resistant, quick-drying, resilient, buoyant fiber has been used in life preservers and other water-safety equipment. Kapok is also used to stuff pillows, mattresses and upholstery.

Wayne

Delacroix · « **Reply #18 on:** 5 May 2010, 09:16 pm »

Thanks for the leads. Was thinking of several projects but most pertinently here, I figured it might be instructive to play with this in the ports of my VR5s rather than the Dacron that is often mentioned as a stuffer for bass mods. I am really just an inveterate tweaker! How far does a pound of this stuff go?

es347 · « **Reply #19 on:** 5 May 2010, 09:50 pm »

..and now for a bit of trivia. One of the primary uses of kapok back in the olden days was filling for life jackets. When I was a kid, we all wore life jackets with kapok filling when ever we set sail in dad's 12' fishing boat.