[TJHUB]

So anything to report back?  Curious as to your findings TJHUB............

I don't know what to say Mike.  I'm still trying to figure things out.  The Black Cat Veloce cable has changed things a lot.

Nuance's visit wasn't too much of an eye opener.  I asked him to post his thoughts, but he must not have had time yet.

I think the Touch is performing closer to the OPPO with the Veloce cable (on the Touch only).  The OPPO is still better to my ears, but I'm trying to figure out exactly where.  At this point, the OPPO has quicker sounding bass, and more of it.  It's punchy, articulate, and more dynamic than the Touch.  The treble is now more similar than different, but the OPPO clearly has a deeper sound stage and maybe a bit more clarity. 

I'm trying an A/B comparison with the same tracks now.  I'll report my thoughts later. 

[Nuance]

Sorry, Terry - Saturday evening I had plans and Sunday was busy with church, trick or treating with the kids and all that good stuff. 

Saturday I visited TJ's house; it wasn't my first time and it won't be my last.  He's a great host as always, and we enjoyed our listening sessions.

We started without a DAC, just using the Touch's analog outs.  It actually sounded pretty decent, so the power supply, mods and switch to allowing the server to decode FLAC must have really made a difference, because the last time I heard the Touch (unmodded with the stock PSU) I couldn't live with the sound.  For $300 the Touch is a bargain; a no brainer.  It's a wonderful player and includes a lot of features.  The sound was not "great" though, with resolution, soundstage width and depth, tonality and weight lacking. 

Next we swapped in my DAC, followed by Terry's.  The sound immediately improved, with the change in tone, soundstage, overall detail and weight being clearly different (better) on all tracks, though it was easier to hear on some than others.  The body of the piano now sounded lush and full weighted..."proper" if you will; this as opposed to flat with hardly with any decay.  The timbre/tone was also pitched up a bit, which made metallic instruments (flute) and cymbals sound more realistic.  The Touch's analogs sounded dull in comparison, and it was hard to determine the flute was a metal instrument; the music was difficult to connect with. 

Finally, we swapped in the Black Cat cable and the sound become a lot more balanced.  The change wasn't drastic with some material, but was with others, such as Patricia Barber and any other piano heavy tracks.  Chimes and cymbals also showed improvement, with better sibilance and decay. 

Last but not least, with everything as it was Terry connected the Oppo universal player.  In short, almost everything changed, and said changes were immediately apparent.  The sound stage gained more depth, tone changed yet again, and the bass really tightened up and had more punch.  After a short listen I had mixed feelings, though, as some things sounded better while others now walked the line of "too much."  For instance, the upper mids and lower high frequencies changed quite a bit and sounded more tipped up to me.  I could see myself getting tired/fatigued by this sound over time at louder SPL's (greater than 80dB or so), but that's just a hypothesis.  I am also unsure if I liked the shift in tone...still pondering which one sounded more "right."  If you put a gun to my head I would have chosen the Duet with the EE DAC+ and the Black Cat cable combo, but the bass was pretty breath taking with the Oppo...I would have missed that.

Once again Terry's system remains my benchmark for the best "in-home" system I've heard.  Sure, the Vandersteen Model 7's would definitely improve things, but for the amount of money TJHUB has spent he has a seriously great sounding system; it literally would take a giant step up in price range to significantly improve things.  Even with the many changes that have occurred over time Terry's Salk's keep on giving, never breaking a sweat.  However, synergy is extremely important in a fine tuned setup such as this.  One change can make or break things, and it was fun to hear those changes with every piece of gear/cable we swapped.  I personally would never go back to a disc-loaded setup, but that's more a convenience factor than anything.  I do agree, though, that after adding the Black Cat cable the Touch sounds nearly as good as the Oppo.  I was just expecting more from the Touch in comparison to lowish price CDP.  After all, the Touch gets raved about, almost to an unbelievable point IMO.  Perhaps something is wrong with it, or maybe the Touch is over-hyped.  With that said, I do believe Terry will swap back in the Duet and even try another DAC with his Alix box.  Only after those comparisons will we know if the Touch is worthy or if it needs to go.

[TJHUB]

First, I'd like to thank Nuance for visiting.  We always cover a lot of stuff and it is fun to share this hobby with people who truly love it.  It's also great to get a second set of ears you trust to listen to your setup.  This is especially true when you start confusing yourself with too many variables.

I have a development to report.

Back in August, I was looking to move on from my Logitech Duet source to something "better" and hi-rez capable.  I attempted to move to a little linux computer (the "Alix"), but feeding a USB only output into my Music Hall DAC really didn't prove all that great at the time.  So I picked up a Touch to compare to the Alix and Duet.  What I learned at the time was that each source sounded so similarly, I figured my DAC was the limiting component.  I decided that the Touch made the most sense because it was relatively cheap, had 24/96 capability, and I liked the convenience of IR control with my setup.  I use a netbook to control my Squeezeboxes exclusively.  I never used the Duet controller. 

So being the audiophool I am, I decided I *needed* a new DAC.  I wanted the original EE MiniMax, but I never pulled the trigger.  So when the new Plus version was announced, I figured that would be the DAC for me.  Now that I have the EE+ DAC, things seem different.

I know Nuance mentions a Duet in his post, but I want to be clear, we did not listen to a Duet on Saturday.  We only listened to my Touch in various configurations and connected to two different DAC's (a PS Audio DLIII and my EE+).  We ended up listening to the OPPO as the final source.

This afternoon, I decided to pull out my old Duet.  I got it fired up and basically just pulled the network cable and Veloce cable off the Touch and moved them to the Duet.  No other changes were made.  The sound is significantly different from the Touch.  There is at least twice as much weight from the midrange down to the bass.  This changes the overall tonality balance of the sound quite a bit.  It seems much closer to what it should be.  Overall, the Duet seems to lack a bit of the clarity and razor sharp imagining, but it is MUCH nicer to listen to overall.

I then reset the Touch to its factory settings.  This took the Touch a little closer to the Duet in terms of bass and overall tonality.  The Touch also lost a bit of it's razor sharp imaging, and I'd call it sounding very close to the Duet.  The Duet still has more bass, which again makes things sound different and better.  The Duet carries much better weight and balance over the Touch.

I don't know what to think now.  The Duet seems to sound the way I remember the Touch sounding some weeks ago, but I could be wrong.  For the time being, the Duet is going to stay in my setup until I can think more about what to do.  I just have no idea what that is right now...