[DaveNote]

  All interesting talk here. However maybe we should start a thread out of the Bryston Circle. I did get a bit off topic, sorry OP


charles
SMA

Charles, with respect, I disagree. This topic was all about the fact that recorded music, by definition, is artificial and why. Your raising the points about one product that is supposed to be able to address that issue is right on point. Moreover, I believe that other members probably have an interest in learning about such products, even when they are not Bryston ones - in fact, there are a multitude of references to non-Bryston products in this circle. Above all, I have said it elsewhere on this circle that efforts to tightly control "sticking to topic" are not only irritating, but ultimately defeat the purpose of exploring the experience and thoughts of other members.

So, I don't think you got us off topic, and to the degree we have been directed to something very specific, it has been interesting. 

Dave

[rollo]

  Cool Dave, thanks.

charles
SMA

[spinner]

 However, perhaps James can add to this . Would Bryston utilize a technology like this in a preamp design.? Could this be a possible new BP assuming this device is a for real advancement ?

[DaveNote]

However, perhaps James can add to this . Would Bryston utilize a technology like this in a preamp design.? Could this be a possible new BP assuming this device is a for real advancement ?

Spinner, excellent question!

Dave

[James Tanner]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

We certainly would look at it but sadly in the past most of these enhancement type products do not stand the test of time - maybe this one is different

james

[DaveNote]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

We certainly would look at it but sadly in the past most of these enhancement type products do not stand the test of time - maybe this one is different

james

Just the kind of answer I had expected and hoped to see from Bryston. Respectful skepticism based on a commitment to stick with the tried and, above all, true.

Dave

[rollo]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

We certainly would look at it but sadly in the past most of these enhancement type products do not stand the test of time - maybe this one is different

james

    James, it would be of interest to hear your and staff Engineers take of the technology for the trade. 
   The device does not process a thing according to bsgt. It works with phase correction  in an all analog fashion to extract more info already imbedded in the recording process. No DSP or digital anything. With that comes a rise in amplitude from the newly extracted info.
   I'm sure Larry at bsgt technologies can answer all your doubts, if you like check it out. BTW did you watch the demo of the O-scope on their site ? As an non engineer it looks impressive but means nothing to me as a I'm not sure what I'm looking at other than a different signal. ????

charles
SMA
 
   

[Rclark]

Any further news on this device?? Long term results?

[Quiet Earth]

Well, I got to see it and hear it in person at the Venetian a few weeks ago. I asked someone if they planned on making a simpler unit with only a stereo in/stereo out configuration. She said that what they were really interested in was licensing the technology to other companies for use in portable electronic devices. That made a lot of sense to me because that's probably where the money is. And maybe that's where this technology adds the most value too because the demo that I heard was disappointing.

I have to be totally honest and admit to everyone that I didn't hear the QOL device do anything at all. It was hooked up to some expensive looking stereo equipment (none of which I am familiar with) and there were only a few of us in the room during the demo. I heard no change in sound quality with the unit in circuit or bypassed.  I was very perplexed because I know that I can hear the improvement that it makes on my laptop with the online demo. Maybe something was not hooked up properly or maybe the gear was so good that it didn't need it, or maybe it was so subtle on that particular recording that it was beyond my perception..... I don't know. But that is that for me.

FWIW I heard four different "black box" sound enhancement demonstrations at THE Show. None of them improved the listening experience in my opinion. Two of them I could hear no change at all, one of them I couldn't decide if it was an improvement or just a change, and the other one clearly made things worse. I think it's important that I include that lit bit of trivia so you will take my comments about the QOL unit with this in mind. It's quite possible that I don't listen for the same things as everyone else does. Or maybe I just don't hear things as good as you, or whatever. I don't want to discourage anyone from getting a processor just because it didn't do anything for me.

I would still be willing to hear one in my own home, but I think that I'm all processed out for now. 

[ted_b]

Well, I got to see it and hear it in person at the Venetian a few weeks ago. I asked someone if they planned on making a simpler unit with only a stereo in/stereo out configuration. She said that what they were really interested in was licensing the technology to other companies for use in portable electronic devices. That made a lot of sense to me because that's probably where the money is. And maybe that's where this technology adds the most value too because the demo that I heard was disappointing.

I have to be totally honest and admit to everyone that I didn't hear the QOL device do anything at all. It was hooked up to some expensive looking stereo equipment (none of which I am familiar with) and there were only a few of us in the room during the demo. I heard no change in sound quality with the unit in circuit or bypassed.  I was very perplexed because I know that I can hear the improvement that it makes on my laptop with the online demo. Maybe something was not hooked up properly or maybe the gear was so good that it didn't need it, or maybe it was so subtle on that particular recording that it was beyond my perception..... I don't know. But that is that for me.

FWIW I heard four different "black box" sound enhancement demonstrations at THE Show. None of them improved the listening experience in my opinion. Two of them I could hear no change at all, one of them I couldn't decide if it was an improvement or just a change, and the other one clearly made things worse. I think it's important that I include that lit bit of trivia so you will take my comments about the QOL unit with this in mind. It's quite possible that I don't listen for the same things as everyone else does. Or maybe I just don't hear things as good as you, or whatever. I don't want to discourage anyone from getting a processor just because it didn't do anything for me.

I would still be willing to hear one in my own home, but I think that I'm all processed out for now. 

+1 on all of this.  As in: I was there too, I heard very little (and not sure the change was better, just changed), and I think the QOL chip in a 3rd party product is probably the best use of this technology.  I will add that the suite was huge (some big money behind this), the demo was difficult to decipher, and the result was probably not as effective as hearing it in your own system.  All that being said, for the investment they are proposing (even given the 30 day return policy)  I would need a much more palpable demo.

[SoundGame]

+1 on all of this.  As in: I was there too, I heard very little (and not sure the change was better, just changed), and I think the QOL chip in a 3rd party product is probably the best use of this technology.  I will add that the suite was huge (some big money behind this), the demo was difficult to decipher, and the result was probably not as effective as hearing it in your own system.  All that being said, for the investment they are proposing (even given the 30 day return policy)  I would need a much more palpable demo.

It's interesting that you both share the same live experience in that you perceived very little difference with QOL and the difference if any was not necessarily an improvement.  This seems contrary to Robert Harley's (of The Absolute Sound) impressions and the fact that he now will be using QOL in his six figure reference system going forward - read the review:

http://www.bsgt.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/TAS_Qol_Article1.pdf

Sorry - this isn't the review of the actual product - I read that in my hardcopy - rather this is the primer - I'll try to find a link to the actual review.

HERE it is!  Spectacular impressions he had - I would say but the question begs is whether it takes a six figure system to appeciate the difference it provides:

http://www.bsgt.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/tas_feb2012_review.pdf

[ted_b]

Yes, I spoke with Robert about it.  He recommends an inhome audition.  His review is well done, but its not the first time i (initially) disagree with him...however, in this case the jury is still somewhat out.  Richard Vandersteen is gaga too, and won't listen without it.

[myview]

Dear all,

I own the bsgt QOL, having bought it after about 5 hours of cumulative audition in the distributor's shop and in my own listening environment.  We did a blind test playing large scale orchestral works as well as some jazz vocals.  The difference was easily detectable when playing music through both speakers and headphones. 

Now, to me, this "difference" is a big improvement.  To another, it may only be a change in sound characteristics.  I am not good at describing sound in hifi lingo so I shall not attempt.  But music through the QOL sounds so good to me it is always left switched on whenever I listen to music.  I would not imagine going back to listening without the QOL.

I am not discrediting anybody here - and I am aware that many of you are far more qualified and experienced audiophiles than I will ever be.  It could be the show conditions, the type of music being played or some other factors which have set it, but it is very surprising to me that a difference in sound is not detected.

[ted_b]

Dear all,

I own the bsgt QOL, having bought it after about 5 hours of cumulative audition in the distributor's shop and in my own listening environment.  We did a blind test playing large scale orchestral works as well as some jazz vocals.  The difference was easily detectable when playing music through both speakers and headphones. 

Now, to me, this "difference" is a big improvement.  To another, it may only be a change in sound characteristics.  I am not good at describing sound in hifi lingo so I shall not attempt.  But music through the QOL sounds so good to me it is always left switched on whenever I listen to music.  I would not imagine going back to listening without the QOL.

I am not discrediting anybody here - and I am aware that many of you are far more qualified and experienced audiophiles than I will ever be.  It could be the show conditions, the type of music being played or some other factors which have set it, but it is very surprising to me that a difference in sound is not detected.

That is great news that you are enjoying the QOL.  I don't at all assume that it's not doing great things....just that the show demo was not a deal closer.  It certainly didn't make the music worse, just a slight difference that wasn't at all quantifiable or even qualifiable.  I would love to try it in my main rig and may have a dear friend who will be a guinea pig for me...I'll just steal it to my place under the cover of darkness. 

How do you have it hooked up, and to/from what?

[myview]

I have the QOL hooked up between my BDA-1 and my BP-26.

Another way to hook it up is between the Pre-amp and the Power amp but I have not tried it.  I am tri-amping (3 units of 4BSST2) with active cross-overs (2 units of 10B LR) so this option is a little troublesome for me.

That is great news that you are enjoying the QOL.  I don't at all assume that it's not doing great things....just that the show demo was not a deal closer.  It certainly didn't make the music worse, just a slight difference that wasn't at all quantifiable or even qualifiable.  I would love to try it in my main rig and may have a dear friend who will be a guinea pig for me...I'll just steal it to my place under the cover of darkness. 

How do you have it hooked up, and to/from what?

[rollo]

   Living with and demonstrating the Qol unit in numerous systems has shown that one does not need any special high end gear. however just like any revealing component ones system should be up to task. It does not change tonality or harmonic structure.
   The Qol produces space, dimension and a fullnees to the reproduction. Images are larger however not oversized, meaning no 12 foot piano. When phase is improved the signal is a little louder. Similiar to when ones subwoofer is correct in polarity, you get more volume. Artifacts like decay of notes, depth, width and height of soundstage are defined more clearly and hold the image in place. On say "Superbass" LP or CD you can hear the three bass players distincly in there space. Notes are fuller with more body and soul. The acoustic of the recording venue comes through in spades. No smearing.
    There are a few adjustments to ones system that will enhance the outcome. Moving the speakers closer together with a tad less toe in, say one to six inches makes a profound difference in the soundstage. If the speakers are to toed in too much the width is overblown. Start with a 1/2 inch at a time to tie it together. You'll know when it is right.
    Some fine adjustments are reccomended after it breaks in. About 200 hours. It did change over time. At first it was bright sounding.
   As  stated many times an in home demo is the only way to tell. Any one in the NY tristate area interested in hearing one PM me.   Disclaimer we are dealers of  BSGT Qol.


charles
   

[ricko01]

The interesting thing about R. Harley using it is this.

Will he take it out of his system for critical reviews?

Kinda hard to evaluate product X with it in play, especially when comparing to product Y (from his memory) reviewed say 6 months ago.

To some degree this is true of any tweak (say a power conditioner) that a reviewer goes gaga over and makes it a standard part of his gear. Tends to invalidate all previous reviews done without the magic tweak.

Peter

[Rclark]

Can we assume this tech will be available to hear at RMAF?