It's all Artificial!

Mag · « **on:** 26 Oct 2011, 05:58 pm »

When listening to recordings through your rig you must remember that it is an edited version of the actual event. Edited to fix mistakes, mixed for channels, instruments high lighted, artificial soundstage, etc.. So it is never going to sound exactly like what the concert audience heard, for better or worse.

Example: I have the original concerts of Made in Japan by Deep Purple. Most of the edited original released to the public, came from the second Osaka concert. Now the original concerts have kind of a raw concert sound which I would say sounds better. However it has numerous mistakes which were edited out.
The version released to the public has been precisely spliced together in various places, mistakes corrected, enhanced. Overall it sounds much better than the original concerts, except it's missing that raw sound.

Your thoughts?

rollo · « **Reply #1 on:** 26 Oct 2011, 07:09 pm »

A reproduction is a reproduction. However hold the presses. A new Technology by BSGT called qol may just change it all, retriving what has been allusive in the playback chain. Check it out. www.bsgt.com listen to the video demo. You tell me.

charles
SMA

SoundGame · « **Reply #2 on:** 26 Oct 2011, 07:58 pm »

Quote from: rollo on 26 Oct 2011, 07:09 pm

A reproduction is a reproduction. However hold the presses. A new Technology by BSGT called qol may just change it all, retriving what has been allusive in the playback chain. Check it out. www.bsgt.com listen to the video demo. You tell me.

charles
SMA

Yes, I've read the ads on this. It seems that the technology leverages phase - relative phase to increase the sense of "being there". It is interesting - more interesting is how many manufacturers actually buy into it and start licencing the technology to integrate in their own components.
If there is solid advancements and truth in the claims - perhaps Bryston may look to include it on their SP3.5...???

ted_b · « **Reply #3 on:** 26 Oct 2011, 08:37 pm »

Richard Vandersteen used it at CES and now is supposedly gaga over it. Robert Harley is keen on it too, so far. Sounds interesting, but if mixing and mastering engineers aren't using it at the time of recording/capture, then in what way is it more "real" at the listening end? Seems phase is a function of each part of a multi-track recording, so not sure how that is imparted if you simply use QOL at the playback end.

They will be at the High End (Venetian) area of CES, room 34-210, so I am committed to go hear it.

Rclark · « **Reply #4 on:** 26 Oct 2011, 09:08 pm »

Holy moly I watched the demo. Wow, that is incredible! And they just played some old music standard, and then through QOL. It doesn't require being used in the recording studio, it appears all our cd's and music have this latent information in them.

qøl™ applications

Electronics: Cell phones, MP3 players, iPod’s, Computers, Home Audio & Video Entertainment, Automotive audio, GPS, Ear-buds, Headphones, Gaming

Entertainment Industry: Studios, Recording devices, IFB’s, Talent related, Musical Instruments, Amplifiers

Medical/Scientific: Hearing Aids, Cardiac monitoring, Test Equipment (instrument panels, simulators)

Venues: Pro Sound, Theatres, Concert Halls, Amphitheatres, Auditoriums, Stadiums, Public Address Systems, and Churches

Rclark · « **Reply #5 on:** 26 Oct 2011, 09:11 pm »

You can have it in your system now, $3900

http://www.bsgt.com/shop/products/

ted_b · « **Reply #6 on:** 26 Oct 2011, 09:20 pm »

Yeah, I've spoken with Kathy, at BSG, a few times...and almost pulled the trigger (since it's no-risk 30 day).

Rclark · « **Reply #7 on:** 26 Oct 2011, 09:35 pm »

I'll have to wait until they have a unit more down in my range or just save for one. Seems like a big leap almost to were I'd want to consider parking it on upgrading to a nicer dac, etc, and the like until I can hear one of these in the flesh.

Anonamemouse · « **Reply #8 on:** 27 Oct 2011, 07:28 am »

This looks like a fun toy to have!
Unfortunately they do not have any dealers here in Europe yet (or anywhere else for that matter). This is definitely something I'd want to test out before actually buying it, I am kinda allergic to devices that claim they "reveal the hidden".

Teyry · « **Reply #9 on:** 27 Oct 2011, 09:00 am »

Made In Japan original recording.....hmmmmm.
Let's see,,,I have "Made in Japan" on vinyl, "Made in Japan" on cd, remastered "Made in Japan" on cd. Do I need the original concert ?????
I don't know but I just pulled out my old japanese import of Deep Purple in Concert 1970/1972 on vinyl that I haven't listened to on vinyl in about 30 years (which I also have on cd). Think i'l be doing some listening.

Mag · « **Reply #10 on:** 27 Oct 2011, 01:54 pm »

Quote from: Teyry on 27 Oct 2011, 09:00 am

Made In Japan original recording.....hmmmmm.
Let's see,,,I have "Made in Japan" on vinyl, "Made in Japan" on cd, remastered "Made in Japan" on cd. Do I need the original concert ?????
I don't know but I just pulled out my old japanese import of Deep Purple in Concert 1970/1972 on vinyl that I haven't listened to on vinyl in about 30 years (which I also have on cd). Think i'l be doing some listening.

It's the Live in Japan 21 aniversary edition- digitally mixed. On my Bryston gear it sounds awesome. I think though you should be a Deep Purple fan. It actually destroyed my perception of Blackmore. I used to think he was the best rock guitarist. Now I give the nod to Jimmy paige.

Teyry · « **Reply #11 on:** 27 Oct 2011, 03:02 pm »

Quote from: Mag on 27 Oct 2011, 01:54 pm

It's the Live in Japan 21 aniversary edition- digitally mixed. On my Bryston gear it sounds awesome. I think though you should be a Deep Purple fan. It actually destroyed my perception of Blackmore. I used to think he was the best rock guitarist. Now I give the nod to Jimmy paige.

I've seen both of them play live and I much preferred Blackmore. Page also had many bad days. Blackmore is definitely my favorite "rock guitarist" along with Uli Jon Roth and Hendrix. Though I'm really digging Joe Bonamassa's stuff with Black Country Communion these days. I always find it hard to say "best" because as time goes by these guys become more and more technically perfect but sometimes at the cost of making "good sounding music." I also like John Petrucci's solo instrumental cd "Suspended Animation" along with most of Steve Morse's stuff.

I also got to see Blackmore in "Blackmore's Night" and I thought they put on an excellent show with Blackmore being much more technically perfect these days.

Now I'm thinking about putting on my old 4 lp set of Led Zeppelin Destroyer recorded June 24, 1977. I also used to have one called "For Badge Holders Only" but gave it to a girlfriend back in '84.

Mag · « **Reply #12 on:** 27 Oct 2011, 03:32 pm »

It's not about being technically perfect. It's having the gift for creative rock riffs, technic and knowing precisely when to apply it.

Greg Allman had it, but sadly he left us prematurely. Billy Gibbons had it in 'Live- In Germany' but did nothing special after that performance. The guy for AC/DC has it, can't think of his name off hand. But the band with exception of a few songs plays mostly crap.

Guys like Satriani, Santana and many others no doubt are technically proficient, but they don't have the gift.

Teyry · « **Reply #13 on:** 27 Oct 2011, 04:18 pm »

Quote from: Mag on 27 Oct 2011, 03:32 pm

It's not about being technically perfect. It's having the gift for creative rock riffs, technic and knowing precisely when to apply it.

Greg Allman had it, but sadly he left us prematurely. Billy Gibbons had it in 'Live- In Germany' but did nothing special after that performance. The guy for AC/DC has it, can't think of his name off hand. But the band with exception of a few songs plays mostly crap.

Guys like Satriani, Santana and many others no doubt are technically proficient, but they don't have the gift.

Well put.

Rainbow Live in Munich 1977...one of my favorite live rock dvd's.

As far as the artificial thing, you hit it right on the head. This is especially true with most modern day recordings.

95Dyna · « **Reply #14 on:** 27 Oct 2011, 05:11 pm »

Quote from: Mag on 27 Oct 2011, 03:32 pm

It's not about being technically perfect. It's having the gift for creative rock riffs, technic and knowing precisely when to apply it.

Greg Allman had it, but sadly he left us prematurely. Billy Gibbons had it in 'Live- In Germany' but did nothing special after that performance. The guy for AC/DC has it, can't think of his name off hand. But the band with exception of a few songs plays mostly crap.

Guys like Satriani, Santana and many others no doubt are technically proficient, but they don't have the gift.

Hey Mag,

I think you meant to say Duane Allman. Gregg is still alive and well playing his Hammond B3 to acompany those raspy soulful bluesy vocals. Agreed, Duane was one of the best guitar technicians and master of the slide technique. Rolling Stone rated him #2 on their list of the top 100 guitarists right behind Jimi Hendrix. I feel fortunate to have seen him live a month before the Filmore East recordings in 1971.

Quiet Earth · « **Reply #15 on:** 27 Oct 2011, 11:42 pm »

Hey that q∅l™ device looks interesting! It seems like you would need a lot of extra interconnects to use it that way though. I wonder if they will come out with a simpler, single input - single output box to go between a preamp and a power amp?

Do you guys remember the Whest Audio Dap1? Another processor of sorts that took the analog ultrasonic mess created from the redbook D/A process, and somehow refocused the ghost image with the in band (audible) signal in the analog domain. Regardless of what or how Whest did that, the dap1 really made the pitch and timing of the music seem more natural and "correct" with many DACs. Imaging was improved too. Sadly, it is no longer being manufactured.

ted_b · « **Reply #16 on:** 28 Oct 2011, 12:20 am »

Quote from: Quiet Earth on 27 Oct 2011, 11:42 pm

Hey that q∅l™ device looks interesting! It seems like you would need a lot of extra interconnects to use it that way though. I wonder if they will come out with a simpler, single input - single output box to go between a preamp and a power amp?

It can and is now intended to go between preamp and power amp. Actaully can then be ued for HT bypass too. (Check addendum on their site).

Quiet Earth · « **Reply #17 on:** 28 Oct 2011, 06:21 pm »

Well, I will admit that I don't know what home theater bypass entails, so maybe that's where I got lost. I browsed the owner's manual and didn't really see where in the signal chain it was intended to be placed. It's kind of vague. Four inputs and two outputs seems like a lot for a 2 channel user. Maybe they're just trying to cover all of the possibilities until they sell some of these things.

Still, it's a very cool device. I hope to be able to check it out someday. In person.

rollo · « **Reply #18 on:** 28 Oct 2011, 06:38 pm »

Guys the Qol requires attenuation from the volume control. So either between the source and Pre or between Pre and Amp. They suggest trying both ways. I would not worry about the addtional cables as the quality of such just may not matter much. [ Did I just say that

] We shall see.
I ordered one. Should have it shipped next week sometime.

charles
SMA

ted_b · « **Reply #19 on:** 28 Oct 2011, 06:57 pm »

Rollo (guys), read the addendum (edit: ?? you must have; you changed your tune and edited your post during my typing) . They now prefer it after the pre, before the amp. Either way ok, (but I'd rather not be corrected when I'm not wrong). I've spoken to the folks a few times too.

http://www.bsgt.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/qol_signal_completion_stage_addedum.pdf

I mention ht bypass cuz in "addendum mode" you could send not only your pre into a QOL input, but also your ht's front l/r's into another QOL input, thereby using it in an HT if your 2 channel pre has no unity gain or ht bypass functionality. The BSG folks thought that was a great idea.