[LM]

One of my SL-1200s has the Cardas tonearm rewire and strobe light on/off switch installed by KAB.

Gumby, If you have the technics arm rewired, that's always what I felt was the weakest link in the stock 1200.  I like the Sound HIFI mod, because it gets rid of the big transformer under the platter.  Eliminates transformer related buzz and opens the sound up quite a bit thanks to the external power supply.

Gumby, I'll echo what TP has said here.  Your Cardas rewire will already have made a big difference IMO.  I rewired mine (with vdH silver as it happens) and it was well and truly worth the effort.  I also have the Sound HiFi PS and again agree with TP though one can DIY an external PS and there are other commercial alternatives available.

Beyond this, I have done 2 more things that have made a big difference to the standard deck.  I added a KAB fluid damper and that combined with rewire and benefits of externalising the PS, meant I am now completely happy with the standard arms performance.  Not that it couldn't be bettered, just that I'd have to spend far more than I'd wish to to jump its current performance.  Last but not least, I fitted a better bearing and whilst there are a few options, I chose the Mike New one and again, very happy with both it and the performance of the whole package.  In fact, I doubt I'll bother with any more TT mods (cartridge excluded), not because I haven't heard better but simply because there is nothing left in the TT performance that in any way annoys me and I am always excited by the thought of using it.

Finally, despite all of the above, the one 'fundamental' thing I have learnt from these forums is that care and attention to basic detail is just as important as expensive changes.  Locating (and levelling) the TT on a rock solid shelf, careful alignment, clean records etc etc has allowed me to get the most out of what I have.  Obvious; perhaps! All I know is that I used to claim my previous TT was perfectly well set up but I now suspect that any perceived shortcomings were probably as much my fault as the decks.  Humbling but true.

[LM]

Easy to get lured down the rabbit hole!

Granted TP but how the hell does one get out. 

[TONEPUB]

35 years later I'm still not out of the rabbit hole.  I've learned to enjoy it here!

[2gumby2]

LM - What does the Mike Mew bearing do for you that the standard bearing lacked? I figured that if the standard bearing was in good condition, it should do the job it was designed to do. Why did you choose Mike New over other bearing choices out there such as SoundHiFi?

[BaMorin]

LM - What does the Mike Mew bearing do for you that the standard bearing lacked? I figured that if the standard bearing was in good condition, it should do the job it was designed to do. Why did you choose Mike New over other bearing choices out there such as SoundHiFi?

Or, there is a very simple fix to the existing bearing........some of that can be seen at AK.  I made one for Big Bill, and walked him through a vibration elimination device.  I have a similar device engineered for ARs as well.  DD Jitter, what jitter 

[LM]

LM - What does the Mike Mew bearing do for you that the standard bearing lacked? I figured that if the standard bearing was in good condition, it should do the job it was designed to do. Why did you choose Mike New over other bearing choices out there such as SoundHiFi?

I will try and answer the second question first but don’t worry if some of it seems a bit illogical; like Alice, all of us down the rabbit hole have a somewhat distorted view of reality!!

Very simply, I was an early adopter of this particular bearing and hadn’t seen and thus considered, any other aftermarket bearing options then or since.  I loved the ground up redesign theory behind it and Mike was local and easy to talk to and offered a money back guarantee if I wasn’t happy.  It would be my first mod so I crossed my fingers and purchased.  It just seemed logical to me that a really substantial, precise bearing would give a solid foundation for any TT and so I’ve found.  Would other alternatives such as a new arm have been a more rational alternative for spending my money?  Conventionally perhaps but I’m really happy with this bearing and the original arm for that matter and at the bottom of the rabbit hole, that’s all that really matters.

As to the first question, what did it do?  It was as if a layer of grunge had been removed or the noise floor (which I hadn’t actually noticed before) had been lowered.  It’s a bit hard to describe more fully but it wasn’t so much that I felt there was more detail, rather that I could discern it far better. Overall then the presentation became tighter, punchier, cleaner and more open.  Nothing really changed tonally (as it did when I later upgraded the tone arm wire or changed the cartridge) but the soundstage became more 3D and complex music passages were better resolved.

In returning back to the point of your original post, the 1200 has plenty of options to make it a better TT but whether that path or trying a P5, Sota or other would best scratch your itch is not something I could not say.

P.S. BaMorin makes a lot of sense as always - there are often simpler and cheaper ways to go.

[TONEPUB]

I like to think of a turntable/arm/cart/phono pre as a system.

It's just like modding your car.  You get a little more horsepower and suddenly you need to upgrade the brakes and suspension.  Once you do that, if you take it far enough, then you feel like more power is in order again.

That being said, making the actual turntable part as good as you can get/afford is always a good idea, because then when you upgrade the arm/cart/phono pre/tonearm wiring it will be easier to hear the results, but again, it's that wacky circle.

Some days, you'll just wish you would have bought that REGA P3 with a factory mount REGA cart and been done with it.  Other days, you'll decide you need more!

As I said, I've gotten use to the rabbit hole!

[2gumby2]

Or, there is a very simple fix to the existing bearing........some of that can be seen at AK.  I made one for Big Bill, and walked him through a vibration elimination device.  I have a similar device engineered for ARs as well.  DD Jitter, what jitter 

BaMorin - What is the "simple fix" and how is it accomplished? Thanks!

[BaMorin]

BaMorin - What is the "simple fix" and how is it accomplished? Thanks!

On Audio Karma, there is a thread about motor induced noise in a SP-15, and how the owner went about addressing that.  Not to start any war about DD "Jitter" or such, the owner of the table went about researching ways to remove motor/bearing noise from the spindle. During our many conversations I suggested a concept of which he followed up and employed that concept. Part of that reduction in noise was to change the thrust system at the bottom of the spindle. The existing thrust bearing is of delrin, or similar hard plastic. Due to "the nature of the beast" that plastic thrust bearing will wear causing a dent to be formed. That dented area now becomes a ball and socket joint instead of a single rotational point. I supplied him with a thrust bearing that covers the original, along with a compound grease that will remain at point of rotation. This does not address any issues that may have occured with the main aluminum housing the spindle rides in such as "wallering-out" If your main bearing housing is not worn causing side play, the bearing assembly can be taken a bunch of steps up by re-surfacing the bottom of the spindle where it meats the thrust plate, and installing a new thrust plate over the existing plastic one.  The second, and main issue he was looking at is motor resonance induced into the turntable. Any table that has a motor mounted interally will have a base resonate frequency of the motor induced into the table. (regardless of drive type) The goal on that particular table was to use that (frequency) energy against itself by going into the same resonate frequency but 180deg out of phase thus cancelling that base frequency.  The base frequency of motor induced noise is a function of speed vs motor poles. As an example, a 300 rpm motor of 24 poles will have a base resonate of 12.5hz  300 divided by 24 = 12.5. The higher the torque of the motor, the higher the amplitude of the base resonate frequency.

[Wayner]

That problem does not just occur on DD tables. I was having flutter on my Empire 598 MKII and finally decided to take out the thrust bearing at the bottom of the well. It too, had formed a pocket to the shape of the point at the end of the shaft on the TT. My solution was easy. I turned the washer around to the other side, where it was nice and flat and smooth. Now the Empire runs like a Deere (farm humor).

The effect is not from a DD TT motor, but rather a physical problem with bearings. Any vintage table certainly can have this problem, and if you own one, it would probably be a good idea to check it out. If your not having problems, the leave well enough alone.

For those that own 598s, there is a retaining ring holding in the thrust washer, accessible from the bottom of the table, You need to remove the platter, and remove the retaining ring (buy a tool if you don't have one) and remove the washer. Inspect, and if there is significant signs of wear, reverse it. The washer is fairly thick, so you should not need to replace it.

Wayner

[xsb7244]

Hi BaMorin,  Regarding your simple fix to the existing bearing will this work on a Technics SL-1200MK2?
For the Technics can you install a new thrust plate over the existing one?  Are there more mods you have
to do?

[BaMorin]

Hi BaMorin,  Regarding your simple fix to the existing bearing will this work on a Technics SL-1200MK2?
For the Technics can you install a new thrust plate over the existing one?  Are there more mods you have
to do?

As far as I know, the bearing is the same or very similar on the 1200 vs the SP15.  The thrust bearing I made for Big Bill simply sat on top of the existing worn out one. I believe he had to remove the plate it is part of, tap the holes so he could bolt the bottom cover plate back on.

[BaMorin]

That problem does not just occur on DD tables. I was having flutter on my Empire 598 MKII and finally decided to take out the thrust bearing at the bottom of the well. It too, had formed a pocket to the shape of the point at the end of the shaft on the TT. My solution was easy. I turned the washer around to the other side, where it was nice and flat and smooth. Now the Empire runs like a Deere (farm humor).

The effect is not from a DD TT motor, but rather a physical problem with bearings. Any vintage table certainly can have this problem, and if you own one, it would probably be a good idea to check it out. If your not having problems, the leave well enough alone.

For those that own 598s, there is a retaining ring holding in the thrust washer, accessible from the bottom of the table, You need to remove the platter, and remove the retaining ring (buy a tool if you don't have one) and remove the washer. Inspect, and if there is significant signs of wear, reverse it. The washer is fairly thick, so you should not need to replace it.

Wayner

 I made Big Bill a thrust bearing for his Empire as well. And on every AR I do gets a new thrust bearing too along with polishing the ball end of the spindle to 1 micron due to the wear pattern it gets from wearing away in the plastic (delrin) thrust plate.  The "rest of the story" though deals with removing energy from the table via the base of the bearing assembly via a tuned counterweight. Check it out.