[TimArruda]

For those of you who have been doing the vinyl thing for any length of time, I have no doubt that none of this is news to you.   

Having said that, I've been spending a lot of time hitting all the local places where one can buy used vinyl since my system has been set up.  Yesterday, I picked up a copy of American Pie by Don McClean.  Based on the information I saw on discogs.com, it looks like a US pressing from 1971, in beautiful condition.  I've had the CD for years, and was really curious as to how the vinyl would sound in comparison.  For $2.00, I was more than willing to go out on a limb.  I also picked up a beautiful copy of Bonnie Raitt's Takin' My Time for $2.00 as well. 

I cleaned them both thoroughly upon getting home, then sat down to listen to some cuts from American Pie from the CD.  Now I would say I've got a pretty decent digital system.  It's certainly not high end by any stretch of the imagination, but it's pretty damn good.  All of my CD's have been ripped to ALAC, and are on my Macbook Pro.  I play them through Channel D's Pure Music, out to my Burson Audio HA-160D via USB, then listen through a pair of Audez'e LCD-2's.  It sounds damn good.  I listened to Winterwood and Empty Chairs, then put the vinyl on and listened to the same cuts.  I have to say, I'm kind of blown away by how good it sounds. 

This is not how I remember vinyl from my teenage years.    Of course, I didn't know what I was doing then, not that I really know what I'm doing now ,but I certainly have more of an understanding of what I should be doing to get good sound out of an LP.  I don't know that I have the musical, or audio vocabulary to really explain what I'm hearing, but I'll give it a shot.  The first thing I noticed, is that on an LP in good condition, after having been cleaned, is it's damn quiet.  Much more so than any vinyl I listened to as a kid.  Then I would say I noticed that the sound stage seems to be larger than what I'm used to.  Perhaps it's not the "sound stage", I'm not sure, it could also be that there seems to be more space around the instruments.  Also, it seems to be more "full" for lack of a better term, I'm not really sure how to describe it.  I only know I was not expecting it to sound this good.

I have some hi res digital that sounds this good as well, Christy Baron on the Chesky label comes to mind.  And I do have quite a bit of music on CD that sounds wonderful, Oscar Peterson's "We Get Requests" comes to mind.  What a fabulous CD.  It just so happens that I have a copy of the original Verve LP to listen to via my father.  It was not his LP, not his taste in music, a gentleman he knows gave it to him.  Now this LP has not been well cared for.  The surface has lots of scratches and so forth, but I cleaned it up to give it a listen.  Wow, there is a lot of noise, which I expected, but you can hear the promise there.  In sections where it's relatively clean it's a revelation, just wonderful.  I also have The Oscar Peterson Trio, "The Trio, Live From Chicago", in about the same condition, and again, what potential.  It's incredibly disappointing that these LP's were not better cared for, what gems.  I now may need to track down some clean copies of these LP's. 

Lastly I listened to my new Bonnie Raitt LP.  I can't say I was a huge fan.  I enjoyed her releases from the 90's, my wife had bought a couple of them, but nothing I really listened to all that much.  But I had heard some of her earlier work on some radio program, and really liked it so when I saw this while browsing I thought I'd give it a shot.  Again, I would say I was fairly astonished when I started listening.  It may change after some time, but at the moment from prior experience, when I put on an LP, my expectation is I'm going to be hearing clicks, pops, crackles, etc... before the music starts.  I put on this LP, and again, pretty much silence until the music started, and then just beautiful music.  What a great album.  It's crazy to me that I can pick up a mint condition LP that was manufactured in 1973, for $2.00, and have it sound this good.

I guess I have a better understanding now what all the raving has been about.  Again, for all of you who have been doing this for any amount of time, I'm sure none of this is news.  But for any of you who might be reading and thinking of trying vinyl, all I can say is if you do it right, the rewards are pretty amazing.  Well, I've got to get going, I'm going to a record show being held here in Portland this morning.     Here's hoping I can find some more vinyl gems.

Tim

[Kinger]

Tim,

Your experience is pretty much the same one I had when I listened to vinyl for the first time on a friend's Rega P3.  I wasn't expecting anything all that great, but in the end I was taken aback by just how great things sounded.  It had such an impression on me in fact that I'm seriously considering picking up a TT myself.

Mike

[decal]

I still find it strange that a clean pristine looking record can sound like crap and a crappy looking one can sound divine. Just the nature of the beast I suppose.

[michaelhigh]

I still find it strange that a clean pristine looking record can sound like crap and a crappy looking one can sound divine. Just the nature of the beast I suppose.

I can vouch for this 100%. The trick is to limit yourself to the $1.00 rack, choose titles you might not be completely familiar with, and take chances on the superclean copies, and risk some being throwaways by buying some in less-than-perfect condition for the tunes that play well and sound acceptable. I say lower your standards and get more inexpensive records, and by taking chances with unfamiliar material, widen your listening experience in the process. I listen to nearly every format but without picking any over the other I can honestly say I love vinyl, warts and all. Vinyl Forever!

[neobop]

Tim,
Thanks for posting your thoughts on this. Many of us with yrs of vinyl experience, lack credibility. Good luck at the record show.
neo

[DaveyW]

  Thanks for your post Tim

I've spent very similar sums on both my Digital (CD) and Vinyl front ends - There's no doubting which I prefer 

Keep on enjoying the journey - it's a fun ride 

[Berndt]

I love it when people come over who gave up on vinyl like I did way back when. Again, my digital front end stopped evolving when I got into vinyl again. So it is apples and oranges. The comments usually have something to do with the depth and tone of vinyl and how pleasing it is.
People rarely had a chance to hear a properly set up rig. I know I didn't know what was possible. The thing I really like is wanting to listen to music.
They didn't coin the term digital fatigue for no reason. That being said, I know I will eventually go upscale on my digital front end. Always want more I guess.

[Nick77]

Tim i recently got back into vinyl myself and have had similar experience. I just picked up a copy of Michael Hedges from Goodwill for a $1 and was blown away by the sound and clarity of the album. Ive had a few duds as well but for a buck a piece its worth the gamble for a gem. 

[Berndt]

Meatpuppets II is a one dollar wonder!

[TimArruda]

The record show was fun, although it was clear I was an amateur among pros.    I got there five to ten minutes before the show, and as there were people already browsing through music even though there were still vendors setting up, I went in and began looking around.  I ended up picking up 5 or 6 records I believe.  The Allman Brothers Band, "Brothers and Sisters", Brian Auger and the Oblivion Express, "Closer to It", Elvin Jones, "Dear Mr. C", as well as Alex deGrassi, "Southern Exposure" and I can't remember what else off the top of my head.  There were other folks there who were picking up LP's like there was no tomorrow.  There was one couple that said they were on a record buying tour, up from Virginia, and were buying tons of records.  I was definitely not in their class. 

After I wrote my initial post, as the day wore on I was thinking about it and wondering if I was coming across as a shill.  I truly don't mean to come across as vinyl is nirvanna, and digital stinks, because I don't think that.  But I was definitely surprised at how good the records I'm playing sound, and I'm really enjoying that sound. I'm also really enjoying going to stores, or a show, and looking through old albums, buying some, and then seeing what I ended up with at home.  I have been listening to music, using my computer as a music server for so long, that I had forgotten how much I enjoy actually having an album cover to hold in my hands and read as I'm listening to the music.  With CD's, the booklets were so small that I have to say I never really spent any time looking at them.  Then, moving to computers, after ripping my CD's, there was really nothing to look at other than artwork in iTunes. 

I have seen it mentioned many times by quite a few people who enjoy vinyl that they enjoy the artisan aspect of cleaning the vinyl, preparing it to play, etc...  I have to say, I'm enjoying that as well.  It's definitely a hands on hobby, and I'm liking that.  For the most part I think I've been pretty lucky so far in that the albums that I'm picking up that look like they are in good condition, sound really good when cleaned.  I do have a few that look absolutely pristine, but even after cleaning, there is quite a bit of surface noise.  Luck of the draw I suppose.   There are also times that I get annoyed because the album side ends too soon for me.  I'm really into the music, and then all of a sudden it's time to get up and flip sides, but it's not like it is a big deal.  I do need to find something to hold and organize my LP's though.  I'm accumulating them kind of fast, and while I don't have a ton of them, I do need to get them organized and neatly stored.  Any suggestions?

The last good piece of news is that my wife is really enjoying the music as well.  Enough so that she wants me to pick up an amp an speakers so she can listen to.  At the moment my set up is headphones only.  I can use my headphone amp as a pre-amp, but need to figure out where I want to go from there.  The rooms in the house we're renting are not large, say in the range of 12X12, so I don't need a large system.  I'm not really sure where to go with it.  I guess I should start another thread in some other circle for that.  I'm open to ideas if anyone has suggestions.  Budget wise, I suppose I'm looking at $1000 to $1500 for the amp and speakers.

Thanks,

Tim

[TimArruda]

Tim i recently got back into vinyl myself and have had similar experience. I just picked up a copy of Michael Hedges from Goodwill for a $1 and was blown away by the sound and clarity of the album. Ive had a few duds as well but for a buck a piece its worth the gamble for a gem. 

What Michael Hedges album did you get?  I've been finding quite a few Windham Hill LP's that are absolutely pristine for not much money.  I listened to quite a few Windham Hill artists when I was younger, and had heard that the vinyl sounded better than the CD's, and I have to say I agree.  Southern Exposure by Alex deGrassi may be the quietest vinyl I own so far.  Solo guitar, and the background and between songs is just silent.  On top of the that the music is great.

Tim

[Nick77]

What Michael Hedges album did you get?  I've been finding quite a few Windham Hill LP's that are absolutely pristine for not much money.  I listened to quite a few Windham Hill artists when I was younger, and had heard that the vinyl sounded better than the CD's, and I have to say I agree.  Southern Exposure by Alex deGrassi may be the quietest vinyl I own so far.  Solo guitar, and the background and between songs is just silent.  On top of the that the music is great.

Tim

Michael Hedges Aerial Boundaries, i just picked it up on a gamble as i havent heard any of his stuff. Yup i think there might be something to the Windham Hill stuff.

I think i might make a few stops today in hopes of another gem. 

[simoon]

Michael Hedges Aerial Boundaries, i just picked it up on a gamble as i havent heard any of his stuff. Yup i think there might be something to the Windham Hill stuff.

I think i might make a few stops today in hopes of another gem. 

Look for the Shadowfax releases on Windham Hill.

They had one early release on Passport records  called Watercoiurse Way, which was more of a prog album (a very good one) that was quite intense. It was not typical Windham Hill fair.

When prog temporarily fell out of favor in the lat 70's, they altered their sound enough to be signed to Windham Hill. But they didn't alter it enough to remove (most of) their creativity and musicianship.

The best description of their Windham Hill releases would be a combination of world music, jazz, new age. The first 5 or 6 releases are all worth getting. As is the reissue of Watercourse Way, if you want more intensity and complexity.

And yes, they sound great on vinyl.

[TheChairGuy]

Most of the Windham Hill stuff was well recorded and made (for commercial pressings).  One of my faves on that label is George Winston - some really nice piano to be heard and, usually, his stuff is in the bargain bins.

ECM albums are often recorded with great care, too, and the records themselves seem a bit heavier than most of that era if you want another label that stands the test of time pretty well in the bargain racks

Cheers, John

[tull skull]

Nick I don't know if you realize it, but Michael on this particular album basically played live in one take on many of the songs. He was a unique talent and is often copied today. I believe one day he will be recognized as a great American composer and obviously a gifted guitarist.
He also could sing like a bird.

[DaveyW]

Tim wrote;

I do need to find something to hold and organize my LP's though.  I'm accumulating them kind of fast, and while I don't have a ton of them, I do need to get them organized and neatly stored.  Any suggestions?

How about Ikea's Expedit



Good value and sturdy

[TimArruda]

That looks really good Dave, just the kind of thing I'm looking for.

Thanks,

Tim

How about Ikea's Expedit

Good value and sturdy

[geezer]

A point of curiosity: Are there any hard data on the sound degradation of LPs vs. number of plays?

[vinyl_guy]

I do need to find something to hold and organize my LP's though.  I'm accumulating them kind of fast, and while I don't have a ton of them, I do need to get them organized and neatly stored.  Any suggestions?

Mapleshade has quality record racks made from oak or maple http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/Unfinished-Oak-Record-Shelf-System/productinfo/RR-OAK-UN/

Laura

[Photon46]

A point of curiosity: Are there any hard data on the sound degradation of LPs vs. number of plays?

I don't know how "hard" my data is, but my personal experience (40 years of spinning the black discs) is that if you set up your cartridges correctly, clean your records and stylus scrupulously, and use a quality tonearm, record wear is a non-issue. By the mid seventies, I'd invested in fairly high quality hardware and developed good record hygiene. When I play my old records bought after that period, they still sound quiet and display no discernible loss of audio quality compared to new or low play recent purchases. Heck, I even occasionally pull out played to death and abused records that my wife had played on a cheap RCA fold-up record player and they sound remarkably good when played with a line contact stylus that gets down into the groove area that the original cheap conical stylus couldn't reach.