Tube or solid state CD

jswallac · « **on:** 23 Apr 2004, 02:08 am »

I am putting together a 2 channel system separate from my HT setup. I will be using Meadowlark Kestral2 speakers driven my a solid state HK 6650 integrated amp. Not sure on the source yet. I am considering the Ah Tjoeb Model CD 4000 with upscaling. Stereophile had a pretty nice article on this player. It is basically a modified Marantz player, but uses tubes. Another option is the Philips DVD963SA. While I do care about price, I am willing to pay the extra for the Ah Tjoeb ($1,200 vs $500 list for the Philips) if it is truly a better sounding unit. Both have upsampling (I assume that does improve Redbook). Since it is only for audio, I do not care about the video capabilities of the Philips DVD player. I do like the SACD capability, however. So which would any of you choose? Any opinions you share will be appreciated.

markC · « **Reply #1 on:** 23 Apr 2004, 09:59 pm »

The ability to roll tubes to change the "flavour" of the source has been a great and pleasurable experience for me. As I have not heard either unit you mention, I cannot comment on the sound.

GerryD · « **Reply #2 on:** 23 Apr 2004, 10:11 pm »

I'd recommend that you also add the Jolida JD-100A to your list. Well-built and responds well to tube-rolling.

Carlman · « **Reply #3 on:** 24 Apr 2004, 12:10 am »

I owned a 6650 for a long time (for me). (if it's the one I'm thinking, anyway) I know it sounds quite good for $2-300 or so but.... I don't know how capable it will be to really show off the differences between a $100 DVD player and a $1200 tubed CD player. I'd also look at the input and output impedances of the gear to make sure it's going to be a good match. It most likely will but, just a thought.

If it were me, I'd do a bit of a compromise.. maybe upgrade both the cd and the integrated at one time.

Or, I'd just buy one the well-reviewed dvd players and be happy you saved a bunch of money. I'd highly recommend a Pioneer 656a or 563. Also, the Toshiba 3950 is supposed to be great... And the Phillips you mentioned... I haven't heard those but the Pioneer's are better than they should be.

Alex at APL www.aplhifi.com is supposed to be coming out with a modification for the 563 that will be tubed. You could buy the player now, then get it modified later.

Just some options. I'm not downing the HK, it's pretty good, as good as an Arcam integrated I had from the same time period... but not as resolving as others.

Have you considered any of the Chinese integrated?

-Carl

WEEZ · « **Reply #4 on:** 24 Apr 2004, 12:51 am »

Since you own Meadowlark speakers (nice!)- you may want to go to musicalconcepts.com.

Musical Concepts does mods on Pioneer players and is also a Meadowlark dealer. Musical Concepts is a division of Musical Design; a maker of amps and pre-amps. Quite good, I understand, though I've not heard the equipment personnaly.

Pioneer players are available in different levels of modification- as are the amps and pre-amps.

A very good place to at least do some research...

Best of luck in your search.

WEEZ

jswallac · « **Reply #5 on:** 24 Apr 2004, 03:55 am »

Many thanks for the great suggestions. I did some more research on the Pioneer 563. Seems like quite a bargain at $150 (stock). I also see that many different places do mods. Looks like this gives me lots of options. Start out stock, then figure out where to send it. It even gives me the option of adding a tube analog stage. Again, many thanks for the suggestions. BTW, the reason I was considering the Njoeb 4000 was that the first time I heard the Kestrals was with this player. Yes, I live near Upscale Audio. At the time I bought the Kestrals for the HT, so no need for the player. Now I have decided the speakers are too good for just movies (being replaced by Swifts), so I need something for the 2 channel room.

WEEZ · « **Reply #6 on:** 24 Apr 2004, 02:37 pm »

You probably can't go wrong with the Ah! or a modded Pioneer. And the convenience of being on the left coast would be an added "plus" for either Upscale or Apl-Hi-Fi.

I've never heard a modded Pioneer- but I've heard a stock model and it wasn't bad. I am closer to Musical Concepts- so on my next trip to St Louis, I plan to visit John Hillig and check out his players and amps.

I'll report any findings..

WEEZ

Rysa4 · « **Reply #7 on:** 1 May 2004, 12:10 am »

I have the Jolida JD-100A with underwoodhifi level 1 mods-- It seems to be a great addition for my listening to redbook CDs. Havent heard the other players listed here however.

BikeWNC · « **Reply #8 on:** 1 May 2004, 12:32 am »

I highly recommend a tubed source. When done right, it can provide a dimensionality and texture to the music that is so enjoyable, IMO.

Andy

Pheno · « **Reply #9 on:** 1 May 2004, 03:56 am »

I also have used the Ah! Tjoeb modded Marantz CD player for the past year without upsampling and have been very pleased with it for redbook CD's.

PhilNYC · « **Reply #10 on:** 1 May 2004, 12:31 pm »

Quote from: WEEZ

I've never heard a modded Pioneer- but I've heard a stock model and it wasn't bad.

FWIW, the unmodded Pioneer 563A isn't "bad", but it definitely isn't great to my ears. Right out of the box, it was awful, and after 20-30 hours it was ok. But the infamous Toshiba 3950 (unmodded) was better sounding to me.

From what I gather, the Pioneer is a better mod candidate than the Toshiba because it apparently uses a better transport mechanism and has more room to make the mods. Both use top Burr Brown DACs...

rosconey · « **Reply #11 on:** 1 May 2004, 02:37 pm »

i agree with phil the 563 sounds like a dog passing chicken bones-it just howls off key and hurts the ears-
the toshiba 3950 to my ears was better by far-i also started the toshiba madness so i am biased

drphoto · « **Reply #12 on:** 1 May 2004, 04:08 pm »

I had the Tjoeb 4000 with upgraded op-amps and tubes and a dynamat lined case, but no upsampler. I thought it was pleasant enough, but nothing special. It just didn't have the detail retrieval of really good players.

The good thing, is that if you want to give it a try, they are in demand and really easy to sell. I listed it on AG for a fixed price. I got my first 'hit' in 5 minutes, and then actually had people tying to bid it up!

Doug_B · « **Reply #13 on:** 1 May 2004, 06:56 pm »

I have used the Ah! 4000 w upsampler with my ribbons and was quite pleased (with Amperex 7308s). IMO, it generally beat out my Sony 555ES on redbook. However, I have since purchased a Pioneer 47Ai universal and had it tube-modded by Dan Wright. Beats or matches the Ah! w upsampler in all respects on my system, so I no longer use the Ah! You can save a few hundred by ModWrighting a Pioneer 45A, which is supposedly the same as the 47Ai-audiowise. I have a summary review on AC here; link to full review is in that post.

BTW, did Ah! price go up? Don't remember paying near $1200, even w upsampler, PC upgrade, and Amperex tubes.

Doug