Freerider's LS6 build

Cheeseboy · « **Reply #60 on:** 26 Oct 2011, 04:46 pm »

Congradulations and thank you for allowing us to follow the build process.

Those are looking really good.
I'm sure that when you get them wired and fired in the main room they will exceed your expectations.

Let us know what you think!

Hugh · « **Reply #61 on:** 26 Oct 2011, 04:55 pm »

Now you know why not too many people received their LSs from those guys.

Quote from: freerider on 19 Oct 2011, 05:04 pm

I don't know how many folks in this forum have built LS6 or 9s, but this is no small task. It has taken a lot of time to do it right. I don't understand how these were built at the cost they were, when AV123 was selling them. Builders must not have been paid much. (I should add that I've enjoyed the build, I've just been impatient to see them finished!)

freerider · « **Reply #62 on:** 16 Nov 2011, 07:51 pm »

Well, it's been 1 month since I completed my LS6 build! Ready for a review?? Me too. Wish I was home to listen to them.

I've been on business travel for the last month! I only got to hear them for one day! Argh. I'll finally be home tomorrow, and can begin to get them dialed in with the new Emotiva UMC-1. It's an upgrade from the Harmon Kardon I had, though some here may quip its not much of an upgrade. I'm still not at the level of the average playback equipment on these forums.

Next immediate project is to build some treatments for the wall behind the speakers.

woofersus · « **Reply #63 on:** 20 Nov 2011, 12:53 pm »

Have they been playing all month so they'll be broken in when you finally get back to them?

freerider · « **Reply #64 on:** 17 Dec 2011, 11:08 pm »

While inspecting my LS6 drivers today, I noticed the bottom woofers seemed more active than the top woofers. I played a bass heavy song to help accentuate the behavior I saw. Lowest woofer has much more extension than the top woofer.

Are there any LS6 or LS9 owners out there that have similar behavior? Is this typical?

Here's video. RadioShack meter said this is about 97dB at 10ft. I didn't run it like this for long. Only as long as it took to take this video.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/z3kFOQ2RGjj-t0-Izl2QZSgsPv-jBurJJ_7mAnzkrOw?feat=directlink

I'd like to know if this is just the way it is with this design (maybe because there is more volume in the bottom of the cabinet, and thus not as much back pressure?) Or maybe I did something wrong in the build?

HAL · « **Reply #65 on:** 17 Dec 2011, 11:38 pm »

It looks like the lower woofer might be reversed polarity to the woofers above.

Try feeling the bottom two woofers carefully with your hand to see if they move the same direction.

Just a thought.

kingdeezie · « **Reply #66 on:** 17 Dec 2011, 11:43 pm »

Quote from: freerider on 17 Dec 2011, 11:08 pm

While inspecting my LS6 drivers today, I noticed the bottom woofers seemed more active than the top woofers. I played a bass heavy song to help accentuate the behavior I saw. Lowest woofer has much more extension than the top woofer.

Are there any LS6 or LS9 owners out there that have similar behavior? Is this typical?

Here's video. RadioShack meter said this is about 97dB at 10ft. I didn't run it like this for long. Only as long as it took to take this video.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/z3kFOQ2RGjj-t0-Izl2QZSgsPv-jBurJJ_7mAnzkrOw?feat=directlink

I'd like to know if this is just the way it is with this design (maybe because there is more volume in the bottom of the cabinet, and thus not as much back pressure?) Or maybe I did something wrong in the build?

I would call Danny, I do not think that is normal.

Something doesn't seem right about the whole situation at all honestly speaking. I have blasted mine pretty loudly and have never seen woofer excursion reaching anything like that, my woofers vibrate, but not pump like that.

Are you running them with the bass management system on large room?

Are you noticing any sort of distortion?

freerider · « **Reply #67 on:** 18 Dec 2011, 12:14 am »

I am running them with a full signal. No active bass management, just a full signal to the fronts. No special DSP setting on the processor. It's on "pass through" for music.

It was damn loud when I took this video, and this song has strong low notes. There was no audible distortion that my ears could distinguish. You can see that the top woofers are nice and tight. It could be that the lower one is distorting and I can't perceive it since the others are not. Not to sure.

I double and triple checked the polarity when I built these, but I am human, so it's possible I messed it.

My other LS6 (right) has the same behavior. This video was of the left one.

freerider · « **Reply #68 on:** 18 Dec 2011, 12:15 am »

Quote from: HAL on 17 Dec 2011, 11:38 pm

It looks like the lower woofer might be reversed polarity to the woofers above.

Try feeling the bottom two woofers carefully with your hand to see if they move the same direction.

Just a thought.

Good idea, but I'm not sure I could tell by playing music. Maybe I could hook up a 9 volt battery or something, to see which way they move. I've never tried something like that, but I don't see why it wouldn't work in theory.

HAL · « **Reply #69 on:** 18 Dec 2011, 12:26 am »

Use a 1.5V D cell instead of a 9V. You will need the current to move all those woofers.

freerider · « **Reply #70 on:** 18 Dec 2011, 04:04 am »

I used a 1.2v D (rechargeable). All 8 woofers moved in unison in the correct direction on both speakers, in both polarities. So I hooked them up right.

HAL · « **Reply #71 on:** 18 Dec 2011, 04:14 am »

I would agree, give Danny a call and see what he thinks.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #72 on:** 18 Dec 2011, 05:07 am »

It could be that the spider on that lower woofer has come loose. Pull that woofer out and check the spider to make sure that it has not come off of the frame of the voice coil former.

freerider · « **Reply #73 on:** 19 Dec 2011, 08:22 pm »

Spider appears to be in great shape. Glue was intact 360 degrees, spider was perfectly flat, nothing appeared out of the ordinary. The behavior is the same on both speakers, and it tapers off from the lowest woofer up to about the 3rd from the bottom. After that, the other 5 are really tight.

I assigned a 40Hz crossover on the fronts with my processor, and off loaded the low freq to my subwoofers, and the dramatic excursion went away (not surprising). Of course, so did the tight low end that the LS6 can deliver.

I think it's just that the lower drivers have more volume behind them with the large chamber at the bottom of the LS6, so they can get more movement when driven to extremes like this. Keep in mind, this was 97+db at 10 feet away, so who knows how loud at 1 foot. Very, very loud, with no audible distortion. I spoke with Danny, and we agree that performance is pretty incredible.

The song was: The Maroons - Beautiful You

BTW, it wasn't until I completed the LS6s that I understood the comment, "These don't need subs". I've heard others mention that about their speakers, and it never made sense, because my full range Polks definitely needed subs. The statement makes more sense now. I still like my subs, but now they are optional.

freerider · « **Reply #74 on:** 19 Dec 2011, 08:32 pm »

I should add that with almost 99% of my other listening material, at reasonable, and even loud listening levels, I don't ever see the drivers move as much as they did in the video. That video almost had my amplifier maxed out.

I think my Emotiva UMC goes from 0 to 80db, and that was around 70 (can't recall exactly). I had my kids go upstairs to the other end of the house and close the door, so as not to hurt their ears.

mojave · « **Reply #75 on:** 31 Oct 2012, 08:47 pm »

Quote from: freerider on 17 Dec 2011, 11:08 pm

While inspecting my LS6 drivers today, I noticed the bottom woofers seemed more active than the top woofers. I played a bass heavy song to help accentuate the behavior I saw. Lowest woofer has much more extension than the top woofer.

Are there any LS6 or LS9 owners out there that have similar behavior? Is this typical?

I had a little fun with the volume control and LS6's on Saturday evening and noticed the same thing and remembered your post about it. The bottom four woofers had probably twice the excursion of the top woofers when pushed hard. With a 40 Hz crossover, though, I don't notice any difference. During the day I was part of the Omaha Home Theater Tour and was getting 127 dB peaks with a 40 Hz crossover and my IB subs. With the LS6's by themselves I am flat to 20 Hz in my room. By adding the IB subs I have extension to 6 Hz before it starts to roll off.

Later that evening I swapped in a pair of JTR Noesis 212HT speakers (ported) and found out what 101 dB sensitivity can do for dynamics and SPL levels. Incredible! First time for me that the gunshots on Open Range sounded completely realistic.

HAL · « **Reply #76 on:** 31 Oct 2012, 09:09 pm »

Did you check to see if the lower woofers or ports are blocked by foam or damping material? If they are blocked, might cause issues like that. Seem to remember something like that happening to the Strata Mini's bass port.

Just a thought.

freerider · « **Reply #77 on:** 31 Oct 2012, 09:16 pm »

Yup. You have to be playing some music with electronics in the low end, as acoustic instruments won't be enough, and be running them wide open, no crossover. Glad to see my speakers are not an anomaly.

I heard a JTR setup with 9.2 surround using Triple 8's all around and dual Submersives. Crazy clear SPL, and very realistic theater experience. Literally felt like I was in Mogadishu, while watching Black Hawk Down.

HAL, since I built my speakers, I know well that there is nothing blocking. All 8 cavities have equal stuffing, and equal No Rez, and I have all the pictures to prove it (had the pics, till Google messed up this thread going to Google+). It's seems pretty obvious that it's a back pressure issue, with all the extra volume in the lower part of the cabinet, but the excursion is never seen unless you have them cranked, with the right music (rap, club or dance tracks), and no crossover. I doubt many people play their LS6's this way, which might be why it's never been widely noticed.

Heck, I don't even play them that way, I was just messing around when I noticed it.

mojave · « **Reply #78 on:** 31 Oct 2012, 11:14 pm »

Since I built mine, too, I am certain the No Rez and polyfill are the same in all cavities and no ports or drivers are blocked in any way. Also, both speakers are identical in the driver excursion.

freerider, how are you enjoying "my" Turbos?

freerider · « **Reply #79 on:** 31 Oct 2012, 11:42 pm »

Finders keepers!

Loving them!

Can't imagine life without them now. Anything less feels anemic.

I think I'll be content with these for quite a while. Any upgrade at this point, would be large and expensive, so these will probably fill the need for many years. Same is true of the LS6's. When it comes to audio, I'm a very happy man. My playback equipment and acoustics could use some love, but I'm content for now.