Better to use bare Cu wire than teflon-coated??

Jens · « **Reply #20 on:** 8 May 2004, 08:45 am »

On the subject of silver wiring I am currently experimenting with .5 mm drawn silver wire in PTFE tubing for interconnects. We are talking about pure silver (.999), which can be bought from a silver/goldsmith without any problems here. The price for the wire is approx. US$ 1.25 per metre, so the wire itself is actually very cheap. PTFE/teflon tubing can be bought by the metre from most electronics suppliers and doesn't cost much. You can even use shoelaces (!) for covering the wire, if you wish. Just cut off the ends and pull out the core that's usually in there, and stick in the wire instead.

I am using two strands slightly twisted around each other. I started out using standard Bullet plugs (copper), but found that there was a fairly large difference between these and the silver Bullet Plugs.

We (some audio friends and I) have made various comparisons with other interconnects, and this "home-cooked" cable is very, very good indeed. In comparison with a US$ 2000 Jorma Design interconnect (a cable that is right up there with the Nordost Valhalla interconnect, if that's anything to you), it lags a little behind, but not far. Considering that one of these "home-cooked" interconnects with Silver Bullet Plugs cost around US$ 130 the performance is astounding. I think that the reason for the fairly large difference between the copper and silver plugs is that silver mates better to silver than to copper, because changing from copper to silver on other cables did only give a small difference.

This cable has a very good soundstage, and a very clear and detailed midrange. The top end is airy, but still has the right weight, and bass is taut and precise. There is absolutely no "silver sound" about it! And believe me, I've heard silver cables that sounded so harsh that you had to close your mouth to avoid having the enamel on your teeth fall off!

I may try using this type of wire internally in my GK-1R at some point. Since there is a fair amount of signal wiring inside the GK-1R, this might improve the sound of this great preamp even further, although I know that great care must be taken when changing things in a product that is so well-tuned as the GK-1R.

Cheers,

kyrill · « **Reply #21 on:** 8 May 2004, 09:18 am »

andyr

MAybe that is possible, but I dare not. The lacquer was never designed for electrical insulation. On the other hand they who advocate cotton sleeves ( and I am very fond of cotton (or linen..) instead of artificial fabrics as polyester or polyamide on my naked body, propagate cotton for the nihilistic "skin"effects over other materials.

brj
It is C37, there is no C47 (my typo. mistake..) C37 claims to change the resonance properties of the material you apply it to. It shifts the resonances more to natural carbon and with a whole hypothesis behind it, on empirical basis the human ear brain combi find it more pleasing to listen to music within resonances nearing the resonance of the Carbon atom. ( http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/c37_e.html) The opposite seems also true. The further away, the more unpleasant. So a horn made out of wood is more pleasant to listen to than one out of metal or plastic.

Jens the silver you bought was it at a local shop, or is there a web address?
Your experiments push me, actually won me over to try silver connects. I thought: no silver for me. I first assmble my best gear for the money and then maybe later try silver.

UPDATE

I found:
Silver in its commercially purest form is called 5-nines silver or fine silver.
Silver can be get ( or is it gotten?) at nice prices at:
http://www.aemetal.com.au/precious_fine_silver_round_wire.asp
and I would go for the cotton shoelaces. Blue seems to be better sounding than Brown, and yellowsounds better but only at night.. I think? Red.. anybody an experience with red?

They got very nice platinum wire for $22,829.61 per metre

Jens
Can you conduct experiments with platinum wire?
We would be very interesting to hear your conclusions..

Jens · « **Reply #22 on:** 8 May 2004, 09:38 am »

Quote from: kyrill

andyr

Jens the silver you bought was it at a local shop, or is there a web address?
Your experiments push me, actually won me over to try silver connects. I thought: no silver for me. I first assmble my best gear for the money and then maybe later try silver.

Hi Kyrill,

I bought the silver from a local Danish hobby thing web address (this silver wire is so thin and soft you can actually use it for crotcheting!). I doubt that this company does export, and the web page is in Danish only, which would be problematic for you. I forget your location, but you're probably much better off trying something locally.

I can only agree with your philosophy for assembling the gear first and then optimising later

Cheers,

andyr · « **Reply #23 on:** 8 May 2004, 09:43 am »

Quote from: kyrill

Blue seems to be better sounding than Brown, and yellow, but only at night.. I think? Red.. anybody an experience with red?...

Yes, Kyrill,

I like red but not with fish ... U were talking about wine, weren't U??

I know you are kidding about the colour of the shoelaces affecting their sound but I did read a scientific article many years ago where someone listened to PVC-covered speaker wires which were both black and white.

He said the black ones sounded worse - presumably because the "blacking" agent which was added to the raw PVC to turn it black affected the dielectric constant of the PVC much more than the "whiting" agent! (I wonder what colour raw/uncoloured PVC is??)

Regards,

Andy

brj · « **Reply #24 on:** 8 May 2004, 04:14 pm »

Hi kyrill - thanks for the response!

Quote from: kyrill

It is C37, there is no C47 (my typo. mistake..) C37 claims to change the resonance properties of the material you apply it to. It shifts the resonances more to natural carbon and with a whole hypothesis behind it, on empirical basis the human ear brain combi find it more pleasing to listen to music within resonances nearing the resonance of the Carbon atom. (http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/c37_e.html) The opposite seems also true. The further away, the more unpleasant. So a horn made out of wood is more pleasant to listen to than one out of metal or plastic.

Interesting idea. Do you have any other good URLs to background on it? A quick googling turned up several links that seem to advocate brushing it over everything you can get your hands on, but not much in the way of solid science or independant testing. In the case of speaker drivers, I'm wondering how much is due to the "carbon" contribution in the lacquer and how much is due to simply stiffening the cones.

Maybe my ear/brain is a bit odd, but I thoroughly love the sound of the silver plated trumpet I've played since I was 10!

I'll take brass music over woodwinds or strings any day of the week!

kyrill · « **Reply #25 on:** 8 May 2004, 06:33 pm »

Hi brj

As a child I disgusted a good malt. It was sharp and took my breath away. Now I love ( in the right context, dark room, beautiful music and a beautiful 12 yr old blond
Glenmorangie )
it. : )

SO why not silver over brass?

Jens · « **Reply #26 on:** 8 May 2004, 11:21 pm »

Hi Kyrill,

I don't really see any good reason to try out with platinum wire at this time, as I want to finish experimenting with the silver wire before I start experimenting with something else.

Theoretically, as I recall it (but I may have it wrong) platinum is not as good electrically as silver, but it is very wear and corrosion resistant, which is why it is used in some electrical and electronic applications, where these parameters are important.

Also, I have a lot of other fish to fry - also in connection with audio.

More about this at a later time!

Cheers,

kyrill · « **Reply #27 on:** 8 May 2004, 11:34 pm »

Hi Jens
I was joking
Have you seen the price for a meter?
: )
I wish you could easily afford a couple of meters...

Jens · « **Reply #28 on:** 9 May 2004, 07:53 am »

Quote from: kyrill

Hi Jens
I was joking
Have you seen the price for a meter?
: )
I wish you could easily afford a couple of meters...

Yeah - I thought as much. Hefty price for something that may not even be good for our use ....

Cheers,

andyr · « **Reply #29 on:** 9 May 2004, 10:48 am »

Quote from: kyrill

Hi brj

As a child I disgusted a good malt. It was sharp and took my breath away. No I love (in the right context, dark room, beautiful music and a beautiful 12 yr old blond Glenmorangie)
it. : )

SO why not silver over brass?

Kyrill ... fellow AKSAphile, I'm afraid, in the interests of public decency, I need to enquire over your choice of words in the above post. I realise English is not your first language but, as I am not a drinker of whisky - JW nor fine single malts ... are you referring to:
* a "beautiful 12-year-old blonde" sitting with you in the dark room as you sip the Glenmorangie
OR
* a beautiful 12-year-old-blond-Glenmorangie??

Regards,

Andy

kyrill · « **Reply #30 on:** 9 May 2004, 11:20 am »

Hi Andyr

Maybe you are right. 12 yr might be too young.
I would prefer a beautiful 18 yrs old or even more matured, but they are too expensive!!

They ripe in old sherry barrels.
They are very lovely and only want to please you. You could try one, some day. If they have too much of a character for yr taste, you can soften them up with crystal clear spring water. No tub water , please..

EchiDna · « **Reply #31 on:** 9 May 2004, 11:31 pm »

er...

o dear... what to say ...

AKSA · « **Reply #32 on:** 10 May 2004, 12:17 am »

Booze, guys, booze.......

It's only booze...........

Cheers,

Hugh