Mayweather vs Ortiz

dB Cooper · « **on:** 24 Sep 2011, 02:40 am »

Finally saw this fight. Okay, plenty of finger pointing to go around, starting with Ortiz' blatant foul. Shame on him. Who can blame Floyd though. The finishing salvo was a cheap (but legal) shot. Ortiz revealed he is not a top level fighter by making a bad rookie mistake. However, Joe Cortez should have been watching the fight, not somebody at ringside talking to him. Which if any was the worst, or do they all suck?

Rclark · « **Reply #1 on:** 24 Sep 2011, 03:30 am »

The ironic thing is that if Ortiz hand'nt headbutted him, he just might have gone on to win the fight. You'll notice that juuuust before the headbutt, Ortiz walked straight through Mayweather's biggest bombs and drove him to the ropes. I think he could have worn Mayweather down and potentially won.

So I predict that Ortiz will win the rematch, whenever that happens, and I predict Paquiao to also beat Mayweather, giving him his first loss.

It was a stupid fight and Ortiz needs to not be such a big softie. He'd already apologized, he didn't need to keep apologizing straight into the round. That's how you get knocked out.

dB Cooper · « **Reply #2 on:** 24 Sep 2011, 05:11 am »

I'm not sure I agree on Ortiz, who has now choked big time twice in major fights, quitting in one and committing a major foul AND a major rookie mistake in this one. Athletic talent, I think he has that, but I believe he is a head case, a welterweight Andrew Golota who falls apart when the going gets tough.

Pacquiao, if the fight is ever made, I agree with you. One of the announcers in the tape I saw commented on how Floyd seldom throws combinations, preferring potshotting counters. Combination punching creates a certain amount of risk no matter how fast you are, and Floyd can't beat Manny with single shots. Look at the trouble Floyd had with Zab Judah, another fast southpaw, the first half of their fight. Manny is much better and hits much harder. If they fight, I think Manny cleans his clock sometime in the last four. I just hope Floyd backs off on the ridiculous drug testing demands he has used to avoid the fight thus far. Or Manny could agree... but only if the fight is held in Manila.

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #3 on:** 24 Sep 2011, 05:38 am »

That fight might get made now. The money will be too stupendous.

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #4 on:** 25 Sep 2011, 04:17 pm »

On second thought, another Ortiz fight is probably in the way.

JerryM · « **Reply #5 on:** 25 Sep 2011, 05:38 pm »

Quote from: jimdgoulding on 25 Sep 2011, 04:17 pm

On second thought, another Ortiz fight is probably in the way.

Yes, it is. Mayweather is brilliant, to that end.

He said he'd give a rematch. He also knows Ortiz was walking through his punches. I'm guessing that, in a continuing effort to avoid Manny, the rematch will be scheduled for 15 to 18 months from now. Just guessing, though.

I sooo miss Champions who would fight all comers to validate their status.

JMHO,

Jerry

JerryM · « **Reply #6 on:** 25 Sep 2011, 06:09 pm »

It's unfortunate Larry Merchant doesn't have access to a time machine.

django11 · « **Reply #7 on:** 25 Sep 2011, 06:25 pm »

I thought the way Floyd won shows his character. If I had half of his talent I would have taught Ortiz a thorough lesson, not involving a dishonorable sucker punch. Not to mention he made 25 million$ for that. And people paid 60$ for that.
I wish Floyd would retire, he takes up too much attention for what he actually provides in the way of pugilistic action.

launche · « **Reply #8 on:** 25 Sep 2011, 06:54 pm »

Protect yourself at all times. Anyone who's been in a fight knows that, in boxing they even remind you.

You don't prolong a fight to teach any lessons, you get it over as soon as you can. The longer it goes, anything can happen.
Ortiz was not ready for those prime time lights, maybe he will be next time.

I'm not a big Mayweather fan and keep waiting for the news of a loss but I am impressed that at 34 he's still going strong.
Pac would get him I think if only because I think Pac would rather lose his left eye than give in.

dB Cooper · « **Reply #9 on:** 25 Sep 2011, 06:57 pm »

Quote from: JerryM on 25 Sep 2011, 05:38 pm

Yes, it is. Mayweather is brilliant, to that end.

He said he'd give a rematch. He also knows Ortiz was walking through his punches. I'm guessing that, in a continuing effort to avoid Manny, the rematch will be scheduled for 15 to 18 months from now. Just guessing, though.

I sooo miss Champions who would fight all comers to validate their status.

JMHO,

Jerry

Agree totally. Floyd does NOT want to fight Pacquiao. He is jealous of the attention he has been getting in the same way a 3 year old is jealous when their sibling gets attention.

Quote from: django11 on 25 Sep 2011, 06:25 pm

I thought the way Floyd won shows his character. If I had half of his talent I would have taught Ortiz a thorough lesson, not involving a dishonorable sucker punch. Not to mention he made 25 million$ for that. And people paid 60$ for that.
I wish Floyd would retire, he takes up too much attention for what he actually provides in the way of pugilistic action.

A good example of responding to a blatant foul with character would be the 2nd Holyfield-Tyson bout. Mills Lane went over to Holyfield in his corner after the first bite and told him he was stopping the fight (DQing Tyson.). Holyfield reportedly responded along the lines of "F*** that s***, I'm gonna knock him out." Lane gave him the chance. We all know what happened then of course and IMO Tyson should never have been allowed to fight again.

I personally don't think Ortiz deserves a rematch but that is probably what Floyd will do; anything to avoid Pacquiao.

mjosef · « **Reply #10 on:** 26 Sep 2011, 01:17 am »

Well he certainly made a helluva payday for 11 minutes of action.
I think Ortiz would have given Mayweather a tough fight had Joe COrtez not messed up...yeah he did, I didn't hear him call time in/box, and he was talking to someone at ringside when it all went down, you can see the surprise on his face when Ortiz hit the canvas.
Bring on the PacMan already!

django11 · « **Reply #11 on:** 26 Sep 2011, 03:10 am »

Quote from: launche on 25 Sep 2011, 06:54 pm

Protect yourself at all times. Anyone who's been in a fight knows that, in boxing they even remind you.

You don't prolong a fight to teach any lessons, you get it over as soon as you can. The longer it goes, anything can happen.

Mayweather was within his rights to do what he did. But he still sucker punched him. It is in his resume now.

Do I recognize Floyd's talent ? Yes. Do I respect him? Hell no. And I don't pay for his fights.

A guy can do as much for his pocket book and reputation with a valiant loss than this type of win. IMO

jackman · « **Reply #12 on:** 26 Sep 2011, 03:10 am »

Good thread. I finally watched the fight and although I am not a Floyd fan, I was more upset with Ortiz for letting his guard down. He hugged, kissed and apologized to Floyd before the sucker punch. I dont know what he was thinking standing there with his hands down.

I honestly think Floyd was getting worried because Ortiz was starting to get to him a little. His shots, other than the sucker punches, didn't seem to bother Ortiz. I would have liked to have seen Ortiz use his size and strength advantage to get Floyd against the ropes but Floyd is a very slick fighter and this is easier said than done.

What upset me worse was Ortiz' attitude afterthe fight. He should have been pissed and he was way too mellow, like he never expectedto win. He lacks the heart and killer instinct of the great Mexican fighters. Ortiz needs a heart transplant from a guy like Chavez. Julio Ceasar Chavez would not fallen for that sucker move.

Floyd is a talented fighter but I think he is a punk with a big mouth. He is dodging Manny because he is afraid. I will pay to see that fight if it Ever happens.

Lastly, someone mentioned Hollifield, he gets my vote for toughest guy I hav ever seen in the ring. He was a legit heavyweight champ in a light heavyweight body. Tyson bit him because he knew he couldn't beat him and wanted to get disqualified to end the fight and preserve his reputation. Evander showed so much heart by continuing to fight after getting a big chunk of ear bit off. I wish Ortiz had half his heart.

django11 · « **Reply #13 on:** 26 Sep 2011, 11:19 am »

Quote from: jackman on 26 Sep 2011, 03:10 am

Floyd is a talented fighter but I think he is a punk with a big mouth. He is dodging Manny because he is afraid. I will pay to see that fight if it Ever happens.

Lastly, someone mentioned Hollifield, he gets my vote for toughest guy I hav ever seen in the ring. He was a legit heavyweight champ in a light heavyweight body. Tyson bit him because he knew he couldn't beat him and wanted to get disqualified to end the fight and preserve his reputation. Evander showed so much heart by continuing to fight after getting a big chunk of ear bit off. I wish Ortiz had half his heart.

Ortiz is definitely a bit of a flake...

If Mayweather had the cojones of Holyfield there are a lot of fights he would have taken that he hasn't . Holyfield as a welterweight would have fought Margarito and Cotto and then gone after Martinez and Pavlik ... The list of fighters Floyd has ducked is way more impressive than who he has fought...

Rclark · « **Reply #14 on:** 26 Sep 2011, 11:57 am »

I think Mayfield has some kind of napoleon complex and is more focused on his obsession with trying to be like the celebrities he surrounds himself with. He wants respect, but more to sate his ego. He should learn, those who are respected earned it, those who demand respect are hated.

Now if he crushes Ortiz in a legit fight, and then goes on to defeat Pac, then he will have earned it.

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #15 on:** 26 Sep 2011, 01:16 pm »

What must Manny be thinking. Ummm. As many or more people with the outcome of the Ortiz fight would buy tickets to see Mayweather lose as much as win. I'm thinking Manny's people should approach the biggest three promoters in the biz and see what it would take to get Mayweather into the ring. I don't know much about how this works. Is Manny under contract to a promoter? Could he sue for release if his current promoter can't make the fight? This isn't going to be the biggest revenue fight in the world forever. On the other hand, maybe Floyd could fight Ortiz again and another fighter and make nearly the same money without as much risk. His promoter may NOT want to make the fight. He has risk, too.

jackman · « **Reply #16 on:** 26 Sep 2011, 01:22 pm »

Hi Jim,
It's not about Manny's promoter, it's 100% Mayweather. He doesn't want the fight and as long as he keeps getting 20 million dollar paydays every 18 months probably doesn't need it. I would like to see it but if Mayweather gets his ass kicked, the "mistique" goes away and he might lose out on his easy money. This guys is a punk but he's a huge draw. He's trying every excuse not to fight Manny and so far succeeding.

I'm sure the fight will happen eventually. Maybe Mayweather is waiting for Manny to show some skill decline in the ring. If Manny starts getting "old", look for Floyd to come to the table fast. He's no spring chicken either but Mayweather has never been in any wars like Manny. Manny has taken a beating while dishing it out even better. That takes a toll. Floyd has had an easy road with his hand-picked opponents. Manny has speed and stamina and will be a tough matchup for Floyd.

sebrof · « **Reply #17 on:** 26 Sep 2011, 02:33 pm »

Not really a fan of either of these guys, but I did see the knockout.
I don't fault Mayweather at all. There wasn't one sucker punch, there was a semi-weak left hook and then the knockout right a full second later. Ortiz made zero effort to protect himself before the left which is bad enough, but also zero effort to cover after the left. That was just bizarre. He was walking around the ring like he was at the shopping mall with his opponent tracking him and then hitting him. Rediculous.
Say what you will about Mayweather, but Ortiz needed to get knocked out then and there.

launche · « **Reply #18 on:** 26 Sep 2011, 02:56 pm »

I didn't see the fight so what can I really say in detail. I do know that in a fight you have to protect yourself at all times period. In a fight where certain things are legal or illegal one must know their risk at all times. Don't put yourself in a position to get so called sucker punched plain and simple. In this case maybe don't head butt the guy and piss him off to the point where he feels all is fair game. Would Floyd have punched him if there was no head butt, who knows.

All I know is when you are in a fight, anything can happen. I did a little boxing as a teenager and have been so called sucker punched was it that guys fault, nope, it was mine for not being on guard. Did I feel cheated as if the guy did something wrong, nope, I felt mad because I put myself in that position, I wasn't sharp at that moment. Is that how Ortiz feels now?

If the tables were turned what would we be saying? Would we still be blaming Floyd... how stupid of a champion to get caught off guard like that, Ortiz just seized the moment. After Floyd did that dirty head butt he deserved exactly what he got. I knew he wasn't ready for Manny, glad that punk finally lost, took his eye off the ball trying too hard to be a celebrity and big mouth and not enough focus and training. He didn't take Ortiz seriously, just wanted another big paycheck and it cost him. Now we won't get to see the super fight but if he looked this bad against Ortiz then Manny would have destroyed him.

It often comes back to how we let emotions cloud our judgement.

and I was prepared to read Floyd lost, every dog has his day. Old champions and young hungry challengers always make for an interesting fight. Age 34 vs 24 aren't always odds I'm going to take. I play weekend warrior sports and am reminded every week that father time doesn't lie. If Floyd keeps going this way his day will come, these year long layoffs may catch up with him soon enough. But it's impressive to take an 18 month layoff at 34 and come back and get a win. Remember this is a business just as much as a blood sport. If you haven't been punched in the face a few times and knocked out, calm down with the if he had heart and cojones stuff. Those that have know it's no fun and nothing to volunteer for.

I like Holyfield and admire his career but come on fellas. For our blood thirst, sure it great theater but as a human being surely we must have more conscious.

Does this sound like a person who's thinking clearly?

ATLANTA—Forty-six-year-old heavyweight boxer Evander Holyfield, who has taken hundreds of blows to the head in a career spanning more than 50 professional matches, told reporters Wednesday that he wouldn't stop fighting until a neurological examination reveals that he has acute brain damage. "When I can no longer speak clearly, or remember where I'm from, or what I what I what what, then I'll know it's time to hang up the gloves, but until then I think I want spaghetti for dinner with mushrooms and rubber-band sauce," said Holyfield, adding that his Dec. 20 bout with Russian Nikolai Valuev should put him one step closer to his dream of suffering irreparable tearing and lesions of the brain, and that he likes really big Ferris wheels. "I'm close. I can feel it—the tingling sensation in my hands, the bright lights that hurt my eyes. Maybe a few more [fights] after this one. Okay, Mom, I'm going to bed now. Bye-bye." Holyfield then rubbed the top of his right ear and asked reporters, "What the hell happened here?"

At the end of the day maybe Floyd will walk away undefeated, with a successful career, millions in the bank and little physical suffering from this sport. Sounds like a winner to me, and if all that can be said is he never fought Manny and is a punk then I think he may be OK with that or maybe not. Personally, I'd be OK with it. These physical sports are hard and each time you never know what will happen, you lace them up and pray for the best.

Rclark · « **Reply #19 on:** 26 Sep 2011, 08:51 pm »

Quote from: sebrof on 26 Sep 2011, 02:33 pm

Not really a fan of either of these guys, but I did see the knockout.
I don't fault Mayweather at all. There wasn't one sucker punch, there was a semi-weak left hook and then the knockout right a full second later. Ortiz made zero effort to protect himself before the left which is bad enough, but also zero effort to cover after the left. That was just bizarre. He was walking around the ring like he was at the shopping mall with his opponent tracking him and then hitting him. Rediculous.
Say what you will about Mayweather, but Ortiz needed to get knocked out then and there.

That first punch had him completely stunned. There was no putting gloves up after that. He would have needed several seconds to recover.

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