Warm sound... what is it?

spinner · « **Reply #20 on:** 11 Oct 2011, 01:14 am »

Yes among others but what does it mean in terms of sound (pesticide free?) LOL

timind · « **Reply #21 on:** 11 Oct 2011, 11:06 am »

When I see organic used to describe sound I think natural, earthy, not artificial. I kind of like the term organic, it makes me feel healthy.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #22 on:** 12 Oct 2011, 09:28 am »

Quote from: spinner on 11 Oct 2011, 12:26 am

Here's one, if anyone can describe.( I didn't see this in the Glossary) It is the term " organic" ??????????????????????

In the early 1991/92 a guy from a silly audio magazine from my country created the terms:
organic, harmonic body and texture

After Steve Roachlin came here and talk with this guy from this mag, 6Moons started to use these strange ''audio'' words.

Another words created by this magazine are ''methodology''= a long and boring method to assess equipment and music discs.
Yet other BS invented by these guys are various words to grade audio/video equips:
Bronze entry
Bronze recommended
Silver entry
Silver recommended
Gold entry
Gold recommended
Diamond
A very boring and formal magazine in paper.

spinner · « **Reply #23 on:** 12 Oct 2011, 05:22 pm »

Thanks for the feedback........makes me feel very organic LOL

Quiet Earth · « **Reply #24 on:** 13 Oct 2011, 12:08 am »

Quote from: roymail on 18 Sep 2011, 10:39 pm

One of the most commonly used terms in audio is the word warm. It is often used to describe the tone of the sound one is hearing.

Here's an analogy that might work. One of the most commonly used terms that I have heard in the interior decorating world is the word warm. Interior decorators often use the words "warm tones" to describe the way that you feel when you look upon a certain set of colors. In my mind, these words describe the way you that you feel, not the detail that you see. (Or the detail that is missing.) It is more about perception and taste than about right or wrong.

Personal preference I think.

Quote from: rajacat on 19 Sep 2011, 03:45 pm

It seems to me that we shouldn't lose sight of the goal of replicating the sound of live music.

I know what you mean by that, and that's fine and all, but who ever said that the goal of a stereo system is to replicate live music? I have been to many concerts that I do not wish to have "that sound" transported into my living room. I also have many recordings of fantastic music that do not represent anything that I could ever hear live. (Or imagine as a live performance.)

Put together a system that reflects your personal taste and don't sweat the definitions too much.

Quote from: Rclark on 22 Sep 2011, 04:18 am

I was under the impression that for warmth you HAD to have tube amps, and that ALL tube amps have a warm sound to them.

Yes, but that's only after you let them warm up. Ha! Just kidding Rc . . .

roymail · « **Reply #25 on:** 13 Oct 2011, 02:29 pm »

Thanks for all your input on this question.

For me, as long as warm (whatever it is) does not take away, cover up, or in any way interfere with the clarity or detail of the music, then that's fine with me.

I think full-bodied, rich sound is probably a good thing as long as it lets everything else come through. But, that's just me...

woodsyi · « **Reply #26 on:** 13 Oct 2011, 02:54 pm »

You get warm sound from hot amps. Big output tubes or big wattage Class A SS heat sink will warm up your room thereby giving you the warm sensation. It's not what you hear. It's what you feel.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #27 on:** 13 Oct 2011, 10:36 pm »

Quote from: spinner on 12 Oct 2011, 05:22 pm

Thanks for the feedback........makes me feel very organic LOL

Hi,
To be more accurate, the original term that this magazine has created, was ''organicidade'' what not mean organic, but as something like ''organicbility''.
OK, a trivia information...

redbook · « **Reply #28 on:** 14 Oct 2011, 07:15 pm »

My system is more organicalatious in nature.

Rclark · « **Reply #29 on:** 14 Oct 2011, 07:54 pm »

Ok so if my system is capable of warmth without tubes, why add tubes?

Diamond Dog · « **Reply #30 on:** 14 Oct 2011, 08:07 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 14 Oct 2011, 07:54 pm

Ok so if my system is capable of warmth without tubes, why add tubes?

You'd need to hear your system with say- a tube preamp in it or even another system which incorporates tubes and then decide for yourself if you want to pursue that. You may not but then again you just may. Until then it's just conjecture. You'll either prefer what you hear or you won't. Also, not all tube gear has that stereotypical "warmth" as has been stated in previous posts so even adding tubes may not tilt a system towards "warmth" much if at all.

D.D.

Berndt · « **Reply #31 on:** 14 Oct 2011, 08:32 pm »

My krell sounds better when its warm! Thanks Rim, I was wondering why.

Æ · « **Reply #32 on:** 14 Oct 2011, 08:57 pm »

Warm to me means a slight spectral tilt towards the low end, emphasis on the lower octaves. Subdued or rolled of highs.

By Martin Colloms, from his book "High Performance Loudspeakers"

Characterization Approximate Frequency Range

Fizzy, gritty 10 - 15 KHz
Sharp, metallic, sibilant 5 - 8 KHz
Presence, upper hardness, wiry 2.5 - 5 KHz

Nasal, hard 1.8 - 2.5 KHz
Cup-like, honky 700 - 1200 Hz
Tubelike, tunnelly 400 - 600 Hz

Boxy, hollow 150 - 300 Hz
Chesty, plummy 100 - 150 Hz
Boomy 50 - 80 Hz

wushuliu · « **Reply #33 on:** 15 Oct 2011, 06:58 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 22 Sep 2011, 04:18 am

Ok so now you guys are totally messing me up.

I was under the impression that for warmth you HAD to have tube amps, and that ALL tube amps have a warm sound to them. If that's not the case, and it's just about bass and midbass levels...... What's the point then of tube amps? Just a reason to blow money? Because as I understand it, the whole reason to get a tube amp was to get a "warmth" that cold, calculating, icy SS or chip gear can't provide.

That description of tube amp sound is very, very outdated but unfortunately still believed by many, mainly by those who have not heard different types. All tube amps do not have a warm sound to them, they can sound just as 'cool' as solid state gear. What a tube amp can do that a SS can't is also very broad, as there are different types. I use to buy into the tubes are just 'warm' distortion devices line... until I heard them.

Diamond Dog · « **Reply #34 on:** 15 Oct 2011, 08:30 pm »

Quote from: wushuliu on 15 Oct 2011, 06:58 pm

That description of tube amp sound is very, very outdated but unfortunately still believed by many, mainly by those who have not heard different types. All tube amps do not have a warm sound to them, they can sound just as 'cool' as solid state gear. What a tube amp can do that a SS can't is also very broad, as there are different types. I use to buy into the tubes are just 'warm' distortion devices line... until I heard them.

Absolutely true. I currently have a Manley tube pre in my system and it steadfastly defies that widely-held audio "truth" that tube components all sound gushy and floaty ( if people are having trouble pinning down "warm", what the hell are they going to do with "gushy and floaty"?

) with less detail compared to SS. But if that's the sound someone is after, there's tube gear out there that will scratch that itch, too.

D.D.

Rclark · « **Reply #35 on:** 15 Oct 2011, 10:20 pm »

Then from the outside it would seem that ss amp is superior to a given tube amp. Same rough capability, no tubes to replace, no heat.

Diamond Dog · « **Reply #36 on:** 15 Oct 2011, 10:41 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 15 Oct 2011, 10:20 pm

Then from the outside it would seem that ss amp is superior to a given tube amp. Same rough capability, no tubes to replace, no heat.

Not superior so much as different. Again, it's a matter of preference. Some ss amps etc. will be superior to some tube gear in some ways and not in others and vice versa. Tubes do have varying life-spans as do transistors, caps, switches etc. As far as heat goes, I have a pair of 660 watt SS monos and they throw some heat as well. I have largely given up on broad sweeping generalizations and iron-clad absolutes in audio. Hear the gear and draw your own conclusions from your own experiences.

D.D.

Rclark · « **Reply #37 on:** 15 Oct 2011, 10:45 pm »

Fair enough. And I should have said less heat. My Virtue does get a bit toasty. Looking forward to get the chance to hear some tube gear. Hoping to get a chance to demo a Dodd buffer one of these days, that would be a good start.

Diamond Dog · « **Reply #38 on:** 15 Oct 2011, 10:56 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 15 Oct 2011, 10:45 pm

Fair enough. And I should have said less heat. My Virtue does get a bit toasty. Looking forward to get the chance to hear some tube gear. Hoping to get a chance to demo a Dodd buffer one of these days, that would be a good start.

Try to hear a bunch of different makes of tube gear and find what if anything appeals to your ears - as mentioned earlier there's a lot of different flavours out there. As an example, I really like my Manley preamp ( I've actually got a new one shipping in a week to replace this one - MAJOR stokage! ) but others don't like the Manley sound ( or cosmetics ). Have a wallow in the ridiculous number of choices out there.

D.D.

timind · « **Reply #39 on:** 16 Oct 2011, 01:41 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 15 Oct 2011, 10:20 pm

Then from the outside it would seem that ss amp is superior to a given tube amp. Same rough capability, no tubes to replace, no heat.

Superior if the goal is reliability and efficiency. As for sound quality, that's way too subjective.
I have only tried one tube amp lately and it took less than a week to decide against it. No complaint with the sound, nothing overly impressive either, but the heat was more than I cared to endure.
FWIW, I consider my system on the warm side with no tubes. My preference.