SAS Audio Labs 7A kit

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WC

SAS Audio Labs 7A kit
« on: 7 Sep 2011, 01:11 am »
http://www.sasaudiolabs.com/pream7a.htm

Looks like Steve is putting out a new DIY tube preamp kit. I am thinking about doing the build. It would be my first DIY project.

richidoo

Re: SAS Audio Labs 7A kit
« Reply #1 on: 7 Sep 2011, 03:00 am »
Sounds like a great project. Thanks for the link. It's good to know the 7A is available again.  It has 25kOhm output impedance, so your amplifier should be 100k or higher input impedance. I would buy all the auxiliary parts that Steve is offering because he has chosen them for best sound and value. He is very particular about every single part that goes into his designs.  Can't wait to see your build pictures and hear how you like it!!
Rich

JohnR

Re: SAS Audio Labs 7A kit
« Reply #2 on: 7 Sep 2011, 03:13 am »
Actually the output impedance is 600 ohms.

WC

Re: SAS Audio Labs 7A kit
« Reply #3 on: 7 Sep 2011, 03:51 am »
Well the amp I am looking to get only has a 20k input impedance. The specs on the 7A preamp mention an input impedance of 25k or higher for the amplifier impedance. The amp is the Virtue THREE which is not yet available to purchase. When I get the amp I will set up an appointment with Steve, since he is nearby, to listen to the amp and preamp combo. We will see how it goes. :)

richidoo

Re: SAS Audio Labs 7A kit
« Reply #4 on: 7 Sep 2011, 04:56 am »
Sorry, my mistake!!! I misread his 25k amp recommendation.

edit: WC, with 600ohm Z-out the 20k input will be fine, imo, but good idea to run it by Steve. The rule of thumb for impedance is in:out should be >10:1. You are 32:1.

Rclark

Re: SAS Audio Labs 7A kit
« Reply #5 on: 7 Sep 2011, 05:04 am »
 :thumb:

 Make sure to take lots of pics and document the build all the way past burn in. I'm really curious to see how this turns out.

hibuckhobby

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Re: SAS Audio Labs 7A kit
« Reply #6 on: 7 Sep 2011, 01:00 pm »
Giving it some thought myself.  I've had a 7a in my system and at it's price point it's very hard to beat.  If I can just get past my obsession with remotes....
Hibuck....

Vapor Audio

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Re: SAS Audio Labs 7A kit
« Reply #7 on: 7 Sep 2011, 04:16 pm »
Hmm, I've been wanting/needing a pre for awhile now ... this might be the perfect piece.  Steve makes killer stuff, and you can't beat that price! 

poseidonsvoice

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Re: SAS Audio Labs 7A kit
« Reply #8 on: 7 Sep 2011, 05:41 pm »
Wow, thanks for the link guys, always itching for great projects!  :thumb:

Anand.

Steve

Re: SAS Audio Labs 7A kit
« Reply #9 on: 7 Sep 2011, 05:54 pm »
Thanks for the kind words Gentlemen. Richidoo is correct that 32 times does create a very minimal load which is very easy on the preamplifier. I am just being persnickety, a perfectionist as usual. Sorry about any  misunderstandings.

Cheers and again thanks guys.   
« Last Edit: 11 Sep 2011, 03:33 pm by Steve »

WC

Re: SAS Audio Labs 7A kit
« Reply #10 on: 13 Sep 2011, 07:02 pm »
Steve,

Can the 7A have a tape loop? Or at least a fixed volume line out? Or a home theater bypass?

Steve

Re: SAS Audio Labs 7A kit
« Reply #11 on: 13 Sep 2011, 08:38 pm »
Steve,

Can the 7A have a tape loop? Or at least a fixed volume line out? Or a home theater bypass?

Absolutely. Whatever you wish to put in is ok.  :)

You can add a variety of options.

Cheers.
« Last Edit: 6 Dec 2011, 10:38 am by Steve »

WC

Re: SAS Audio Labs 7A kit
« Reply #12 on: 13 Sep 2011, 08:45 pm »
Sure. You just need two sets of jacks, a dpdt switch to create/wire a typical "tape loop".
And/or you can switch any input (or all inputs) directly to the output as a HT bypass for home theatre use.
A simple design for a fixed output is to wire two jacks together so the input/source is an output (preamplifier output is separate output).

You can create a variety of designs.

Cheers.


 8)

Steve

Re: SAS Audio Labs 7A kit
« Reply #13 on: 19 Sep 2011, 07:31 pm »
Hi WC, Poseidonsvoice, and All,

A quick question. Would you prefer I print "Monitor" and/or "Bypass" (with or without drill dots), on the front panel so one can add such later if one wishes. Or should I leave them off the front? 

Cheers and thanks.

Steve

jackman

Re: SAS Audio Labs 7A kit
« Reply #14 on: 19 Sep 2011, 07:49 pm »
Steve, why don't you get a manufacturer circle on this site or at least a user circle?  I'm interested in learning more about your products and this site could provide exposure to new potential users.  The kit looks great but I'm not sure I have the skill to put one together (I did assemble a Bottlehead Foreplay preamp a long time ago without killing myself).   :thumb:

Didn't know we had an audio manufacturer in Morton, IL!  I'm in the Chicago burbs and would love to hear your stuff someday.  Best of luck to you.

Jack

WC

Re: SAS Audio Labs 7A kit
« Reply #15 on: 19 Sep 2011, 08:23 pm »
I was thinking of using my own enclosure, but if I was buying yours I don't think I would like looking at a monitor or bypass description and dot if I wasn't using them on the front of my unit.

Steve

Low gain, high gain 7A kit
« Reply #16 on: 22 Sep 2011, 09:09 pm »
Thank you Gents.

Good news. The 7A can be set for high or low gain (Soldering a wire involved).
High gain is approximately 10db, low gain is 3.5db. Either way the sound is amazing.

Cheers.
« Last Edit: 23 Sep 2011, 03:44 am by Steve »

poseidonsvoice

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Re: SAS Audio Labs 7A kit
« Reply #17 on: 26 Sep 2011, 04:05 am »
Steve,

Sorry, didn't look at this thread for a while.

I always use my own enclosure so I really don't have an opinion as such.

What are the differences between the 7A, 10A and 12A? Is it in the PS, i.e. solid state versus tube? I'm sure there are more differences, as I can see that the 10A is much higher gain.

Best,

Anand.

Steve

Re: SAS Audio Labs 7A kit
« Reply #18 on: 4 Oct 2011, 01:11 am »
Steve,

I always use my own enclosure so I really don't have an opinion as such.

What are the differences between the 7A, 10A and 12A? Is it in the PS, i.e. solid state versus tube? I'm sure there are more differences, as I can see that the 10A is much higher gain.

Best,

Anand.

Sorry I missed your post Anand. My bad.

First, I think it would be advantageous to
provide a framework. This may be over response to your question, but I feel it is necessary for newbies to gain a basic understanding, for knowledge is essential for making wise decisions. Skip to the bottom if what comes next is not of interest.

Some feel that simply throwing together a power supply and
installing a tube is the goal. And if a particular tube sounds better to them, than suddenly it is "the best". However, such a conclusion is built on false premises.

Each tube type offers a different frequency response depending upon
the plate resistance (Rp) of the tube. Each tube type also offers
what is called Gm characteristic, meaning a different amount of
gain, plate current, minus grid voltage etc.

Since each tube type is different, each requires a different type of power supply. So when word is spread about this or that tube being superior, such may not be the case at all. It depends upon the signal circuit design, parts, power supply design etc.
(Also not only does the power supply have to eliminate 120hz and other artifacts, but also has to deal with wide ranging frequencies, musical signals in a linear fashion.)

Some tube types with high plate resistances (high Rp) just cannot function with any sort of load such as interconnect capacitance, or low load resistance. Doing such either dramatically reduces the frequency response and/or dramatically increases harmonic and IM distortion.

As such, each tube type requires a different type of circuitry and
power supply for optimum performance.
Filter capacitors reduce 120hz ripple. However, as the capacitor increases in value, DA, DF and self resonance problems (especially electrolytics, tantalum etc) must be addressed. But even poly caps have problems.

High Rp tubes require a buffer output stage in order keep the high
frequency (HF) response to a respectable level when IC capacitance
and amplifier input capacitance is introduced. However, adding a stage reduces the fidelity further, unless a stage is so poorly designed that adding another stage actually solves a particular problem and sounds better.

Frequency dependent feedback (and phase shifts) also occurs between stages that decoupling power supply capacitors cannot completely eliminate. (RCA Radiotron Designers Handbook, 26 Engineers, 1960 edition)

Another criteria is finding and using the most accurate
sounding parts available. Not doing such can give the false conclusion that one tube type is superior to another when it is not IF accurate sounding parts were used.

With this backround, I found that using
one particular tube for all my small signal components is quite advantageous. It allows for one overall type of power supply with some minor differences, which means my preamplifiers have similar, superior outcomes sonic wise. 

The 7A is a result of the R&D of the 10A/11A/12A, but less expensive. The 7A does not have regulation in the power supply, although otherwise it follows the general pattern of my power supplies, with 4 stages. It is designed for optimum operation. 

It has a little less depth, width, soundstage when compared to the other three. But very natural and organic. It is designed with one volume control and one balance control whereas the other three have dual volume controls.

The 10A/11A/12A do have vacuum tube regulation in the power supplies which minimizes what little reactance my supplies have.

The 11A is high gain, some 21db of gain and is so natural and very organic.

The 12A is the 11A but with low gain, some 8db total gain, and with lower output Z (750 ohms or so), yet with the same naturalness, very organic.

One last thing. The specs are extremely good, but proprietary listening tests are always the final word.

I hope this answers your questions Anand, but if you have more, or I am not clear, please feel free to ask.

Cheers.
« Last Edit: 6 Dec 2011, 10:43 am by Steve »

poseidonsvoice

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Re: SAS Audio Labs 7A kit
« Reply #19 on: 4 Oct 2011, 02:22 am »
Wow Steve. That's a great thread and explanation. Very wisely said as most newbies do not realize the level of R&D that goes into a preamp.

Best,
Anand.