[jimbones]

Hi I'm new to the Circle so I apologize in advance if I am posting in the wrong area.
I am a former audioholic that is experiencing a relapse 
I have a Creek CD60 CD player (Upgraded Caps and other stuff) I was thinking of upgrading it or adding an outbord DAC. Would I see an appreciable improvement with say a Rega Apollo? or Cambrdge or Arcam CD player? What if I only added aMusical Fidelity DAC?

I believe my other equipment is strong (AR SP8, ARAGON Amp, Linn TT)

Thanks All

[JLM]

Welcome,

Hard to say because: 1) There's very little information on the web regarding this piece; 2) It's been modded in unspecified ways.

The DAC portion of the player makes a bigger difference than the transport.  For better or worse a new "darling" amoung DACs seems to be introduced each week that is better than all previous ones (as per users, not just reviewers that thrive on "fresh meat").

Note that most audiophiles are/have made the transition to computer based transports of various types.  So a new DAC (that can accept hi-res USB inputs might be the most "future proof" and your best option).

[richidoo]

Welcome to AC Jim. You're in the right place...

I wasn't impressed by the Azur 840C or Apollo. I don't know much about the Creek, but it's too old to be using a current generation D/A chip with jitter reduction. The crash changed the way we value budget audio gear, so there are much higher value products made now and the DAC segment has become extremely competitive. D/A technology has improved dramatically and jitter reduction has become mainstream, so even the low price, big name DACs will sound better than a 5yo value CDP.  Like JLM said, a DAC provides the added benefit of allowing computer as digital source for internet radio, library management and DSP.

Some high value, <$1k DACs worth checking out are Eastern Electric Minimax DAC, Music Fidelity M1 DAC, and if you modded the Creek you could make a DIY DAC project with Twisted Pear Buffalo 3 DAC.  Keep the Creek as a CD transport for a DAC.

[jimbones]

OK, my cd player has got to be 15 years old. So i am guess it should be easy to best it. The mods were minor but did make an audible improvement at the time. Now the only thing is that another audiophile said I might be better off getting a cd player as a unit rather than a separate dac only because of jitter/clocking issues are minimized in a cd player. But he did say even a new dac would be an improvement. Any thoughts, arguments?

Thanks for all the help everyone and your warm welcome.

[JLM]

Look around the source threads within the equipment review circle above, cheap and cheerful circle, and elsewhere here at AC.  You'll find world class DACs for around $1000 (depending on your connectivity needs).  Again for under $1000 you can pick up a variety of transport options, including computers with hard drive (and backup hard drive).

With very little effort you could spend under $1000 and get really good sound (transport and DAC).

For a one box solution you could do an Oppo BDP-95 for $1000 that would also allow you to play blu-ray.  (The Oppo BDP-93 is a step down for $500). 

It's a great time to be a digitally based audiophile.   

[richidoo]

OK, my cd player has got to be 15 years old. So i am guess it should be easy to best it. The mods were minor but did make an audible improvement at the time. Now the only thing is that another audiophile said I might be better off getting a cd player as a unit rather than a separate dac only because of jitter/clocking issues are minimized in a cd player. But he did say even a new dac would be an improvement. Any thoughts, arguments?

Your friend is right about the the potential for jitter to be minimized if the connection between transport and DA chip is designed with that in mind. Back 15 years ago few cared about jitter, so likely there is no conscious consideration about it in your CDP, but Mike Creek is a great designer and may have made jitter reducing design choices just because they sounded better without knowing why.

Today jitter is well understood and there are low priced DACs that eliminate it or reduce it greatly. There are several electronics mfgs with circles on AC who feature jitter reducing technology in their DACs.

You could probably modify your CDP with high performance voltage regulators and an upgrade clock to gain a lot more performance from it, if you are very attached to it.  But try to hear some of the new stuff first so you know what's available for less money than upgrades would cost.

[wilsynet]

If I were in the market for a new source today, it would likely be the Metrum Octave together with the Empirical Off-Ramp 4 (base model).

[pansixt]

Any thoughts, arguments?

Jim- I was in a similar quandary and my solution was to go with a very nice DAC, (an AVA Vision DAC), and then on the recommendation of fellow ACer's I tracked down a used Oppo 980H DVD player on the AC Trading Post, that I use only for a transport.

Total cost was around $1200 at that time.

However, if you view the used equipment on the AVA website http://avahifi.com/, or call Frank for the most recent list, you should be able to find an exceptional used DAC, at a reasonable price.

Pair that with a used, more updated CDP and I believe you will never look back.

Just my experience. I was lucky enough to stumble onto Audio Circle when I did.

Keep me/us posted.

James

[JLM]

If I were in the market for a new source today, it would likely be the Metrum Octave together with the Empirical Off-Ramp 4 (base model).

The Off-Ramp 4 was literally Friday's advice from bhobba.  As of yesterday it's Stello U3 w/Metrum Octave (except for the much more expensive PDX).  Cheaper and better sound according to him.  This combo is also Srajan's (of 6moons fame) current favorite.  (His previous lasted all of 3 months and cost more.)  Note that these all use computer transports.

All this flavor of the week speed at which digital is improving drives me nuts, how about you?

[jimbones]

Wow, I got lots to research to do, but hey, that's half the fun of being a hifi geek  I got to get cracking and let everyone know how I make out. Thanks for all the info, I surely will keep you posted.