[ted_b]

Do you have a passive attenuator somewhere in your bag of tricks? The BDA-1 potential will not be realized unless it can be released from preamp bondage. A balanced attenuator would be ideal, but a single ended will do.

In what way will a passive attenuator (simple passive pre, not much simpler than my original Bent TAP passive btw, which I still own) help the BDA?  It would still be using a set of rca's (or XLR's) and would still be going through a volume control (the volume control in the Gold is very clean).  From what i can tell you are simply making a statement that passive attenuator is the best pre.  I would make a statement (as would Steve Hoffman, Dick Olsher and many others) that my $20k Concert Fidelity CF-080 is the best pre (except for the Gold where "no pre" is preferred). 

[zybar]

Do you have a passive attenuator somewhere in your bag of tricks? The BDA-1 potential will not be realized unless it can be released from preamp bondage. A balanced attenuator would be ideal, but a single ended will do.

Not sure I agree with that statement.

I think my Atma-Sphere MP-1 active preamp does a heck of a job letting the BDP-1/BDA-1 combo show what it is capable of.

George

[konut]

I have no doubt that your preamp is excellent. My contention is that an added stage of gain is not needed or required. The BDAs output stage is all that is needed. The Bent would be excellent for just this purpose. Less is more.

[ted_b]

I have no doubt that your preamp is excellent. My contention is that an added stage of gain is not needed or required. The BDAs output stage is all that is needed. The Bent would be excellent for just this purpose. Less is more.

And while that might be true I do not have the time to be switching/swapping  preamp-amp interconnects between a Bent TAP for the BDA and my Antelope Gold for direct.  So it ain't happ'nin.

Just got back from Best Buy with the gigabit switch and a couple Cat6 cables, so now they are both connected (BDP to mpad/mpod remotes; Mini to NAS music files, Apple remote app and Logmein VNC app).  Now I am able to remotely switch between BDP (AES input) and Mini (USB input) on my Antelope dac.

[headshrinker2]

Seems like this thread has gotten a tad off track.  Ted, any findings and/or reactions for us?

[lostinla]

I'm keen to hear the outcome of this too. I recently bought a 2011 Mach2Mini which I'm very pleased with. But I did consider the BDP-1 ... never heard one though.

I'd recommend you also try streaming some music from an attached harddrive via USB (or firewire) as an alternative to the NAS. I was recommended to do this and now only use my NAS as a backup and use a firewire attached drive to my MacMini. I'd assume firewire or USB attached would sound the same.

[ted_b]

So, last night was the first of several nights where I want to simply a/b the BDP-1 vs the Mac Mini.  I am going to listen to the Mac Mini in two iterations, via Antelope Gold's own 24/384k-capable USB input AND via Stello U3 24/192k-capable USB-to S/PDIF converter.

The Mac setup:
*Mac Mini (2009, 2.3GHZ, 8GB, SSD) running 10.6.8 Snow Leopard, Pure Music 1.82 nonmixable integer mode
*USB cable:  Wireworld Platinum Starlight
*demo wav files via Synology DS410 NAS
*Stello U3 24/192k-capable USB-to-S/PDIF converter running either Morrow D4 AES cable or Stereovox HDXFV coax (one is used for Stello while other is used for BDP and then I swap).

The BDP setup:
*Bryston BDP-1 with Lessloss power cable
*same demo wav files as above, via 80 GB USB-bus-powered drive, plugged into top rear USB input
*Cables:  either Morrow D4 AES or Stereovox HDXV coax (Morrow is used when comparing to Antelope USB; Morrow and Stereovox are swapped when comparing to U3 USB)

I use the Antelope remote to switch between USB and AES (or AES and COAX1), and i use the iPod touch to control BDP (Mpod) and Mac Mini (Apple remote app).  This setup allows pretty easy/quick comparisons. 

I will not reach a conclusion after one night's serious listening, but nonetheless readers need to know that the BDP-1 has provided the best presentation so far, with the Morrow D4 AES cable being my fave of the Morrow, DH Labs (also AES) and Stereovox digital cabling.  The BDP/Morrow combo provides easily the best low level resolution while still maintaining a musical midrange and great balance at frequency extremes.  The Stello/Morrow combo has great low level as well, but the midrange is not at all colorful or organic.  My Antelope USB produces the wamrest presentation, with a slight blooming comapred to the BDP, which hides those last few layers of mircro-detail.  The Gold's midrange is to die for, but the BDP's organic mid is only in second place by a hair, a tradeoff overall that I could easily live with.   

I became fixated on Patricia Barber's 24/176 SACD rip of her Verse album, specifically her closing song, If I Were Blue.  Her voice has a slight resonance, which in the wrong hands can bloom (too much) or sound disembodied (too little).   The Stello does too little, the Gold a hair too much (but not bad).  But the BDP provides a perfect blend of resonance and tonal accuracy, and then kicks the others arse on the resolution of the solo acoustic guitar that highlights the song.  The guitar is well recorded, so each of the front ends offer a great sound, but it's only with the BDP that the subtle fretwork becomes obvious when such resolution and dark backgrounds are presented.  Now that I'm listening for it the details become more obvious with the others, but it is the BDP that makes it obvious and natural. 

I am going to hold off any awards....I only spent one night with these three beautiful women (did I fail to mention, they are all beautiful, and picking one over the others is really an embarrassment of riches...like not picking Cindy Crawford cuz of her facial mole!!)  Tonight I wine and dine with them again, and if I have any strength left in the AM I will report back. 

P.S.  I'm still convinced that the 2009 Mac Mini is playing with a handicap...the external ps.  My custom Hynes Mac Mini ps (aka SR-7 18V5 with Mini umbilical) is due soon, but doubt it will be here (and if so not broken in) during these few days.

[zybar]

Great write-up Ted.

I look forward to reading more over the coming days.

George

[airhead]

I became fixated on Patricia Barber's 24/176 SACD rip of her Verse album, specifically her closing song, If I Were Blue.  Her voice has a slight resonance, which in the wrong hands can bloom (too much) or sound disembodied (too little).   The Stello does too little, the Gold a hair too much (but not bad).  But the BDP provides a perfect blend of resonance and tonal accuracy, and then kicks the others arse on the resolution of the solo acoustic guitar that highlights the song.  The guitar is well recorded, so each of the front ends offer a great sound, but it's only with the BDP that the subtle fretwork becomes obvious when such resolution and dark backgrounds are presented.  Now that I'm listening for it the details become more obvious with the others, but it is the BDP that makes it obvious and natural. 



I just want to comment that, to me, this song is one of the most profoundly moving in all of jazz.  Brilliantly conceived and stunningly executed.  I only dare listen to it on rare  occasions, since it it too overwhelming.  I have the standard CD issue and also the MFSL LP.  I was very surprised to find that I like the CD better---the MFSL is too dark.  (i also have several other LP's over hers, issues by Premonition and Bluenote, which I think are better than the corresponding CD's.)    Barber's music is too strong for me to use as an audiophile test.

[headshrinker2]

Agreed.  Very nice write up.  We look forward to more comments as you continue to listen...

I'd be quite interested in comments regarding soundstaging (i.e. width, depth and accuracy), sense of acoustic space, ability to handle complex music (e.g. orchestral), and ability to recreate acoustic instruments naturally and convincingly.

Thanks for taking the time to do this!

Great write-up Ted.

I look forward to reading more over the coming days.

George

[ted_b]

Thanks.  Remember that this is NOT a DAC comparison, just a front end/transport comparison, so issues like ability to handle complex music, and even soundstage width and depth are much more, to me at least, denizens of the DAC's ability rather than the transport's.  I will spend one night comparing my Gold to the BDA, using same transport, but this will be on a separate thread, and will also be somewhat cursory.

[golfugh]

Great writeup Ted, thanks for the info.
Mark

[zybar]

Thanks.  Remember that this is NOT a DAC comparison, just a front end/transport comparison, so issues like ability to handle complex music, and even soundstage width and depth are much more, to me at least, denizens of the DAC's ability rather than the transport's.  I will spend one night comparing my Gold to the BDA, using same transport, but this will be on a separate thread, and will also be somewhat cursory.

Ted,

While the DAC absolutely has a bigger influence over the areas you mentioned above, I have found that all of that is definitely impacted by what feeds the DAC.  For example, I was stunned at the difference in performance levels between the Modwright Transporter and Bryston BDP-1.  The two didn't sound even remotely close in the areas of soundstage, macro and mirco details, realism, and overall ability to draw one into the music.  The BDP-1 was far superior in every way.

George

[ted_b]

OK, George, I'll give you that.  I guess I'm only hearing improvements in noise floor (which impacts micro details, as explained) and acoustic space (again, maybe a likely byproduct of reduced noise floor).  The soundstage depth and width seems pretty darn close, so I'm not commenting on it. 

I guess I'm saying that I'm very aware of all those aspects (I'm a huge imaging guy myself) and don't feel it necessary to comment on them (although i'll pay more attention tonight) because I don't feel much if any changed in those areas.  Likely my tweeked out Mac Mini setup is quite a bit closer to the BDP than the Transporter was.

Last night's listen brought out two new comments, though.  One...the Stello U3 likes the Stereovox cable (rca coax) better than the Morrow AES somehow (and I already told you the BDP likes the Morrow the best) so the gap was slightly narrowed when I did that swap.  The BDP still reigns in overall noise floor (black, period) and in acoustic space, but the Stello U3 USB converter sounded better last night.  It would not replace my Gold's native USB, however, due to the slight lessening of  the ever-important musical organic midrange. 

Second...I believe one other aspect that the BDP excels in is jitter, or the lack thereof.  I think some of the micro-detail is gained there, but the biggest winner is complex piano music.  The Stello (in this case; tonight's listen will be sans-Stello i.e  native Gold USB) just presents a slight smearing and bloom to piano that the BDP does not.  I'm not saying the BDP is cold; it allows nice decay and harmonics, but it also allows the piano's own resonance to differentiate from the acoustic space's own reverb or resonance.  For the Stello USB version, the slight (remember, these are mostly nit picks) smearing obfuscates any realism of the piano sitting in a particular space.  thsi was evident on a great little track I use called Two Little Pearls, from Jan Lundgren Trio's A Swinging Rendezvous.  The track starts with a very powerful acoustic bass (which defines the recorded acoustic space very well) and then has a nice synchopated dialog with the piano.  This is a great little track and well recorded.

[zybar]

I guess I'm saying that I'm very aware of all those aspects (I'm a huge imaging guy myself) and don't feel it necessary to comment on them (although i'll pay more attention tonight) because I don't feel much if any changed in those areas.  Likely my tweeked out Mac Mini setup is quite a bit closer to the BDP than the Transporter was.

Great point Ted.

My frame of reference almost certainly had a much larger performance gap compared to the BDP-1 than yours.

George

[konut]

REALLY enjoying your commentary, Ted. Hope you're enjoying the comparo as much as we are reading about it. Check that, hope you're enjoying it MORE than we are.

[TJHUB]

Ted:  This is a very interesting comparison, and you're doing a great job of articulating what you are hearing.  A big thanks to you and George for making this happen. 

One comment I'd like to make regarding the BDP-1.  My friend tried the Morrow DIG4 and found it to be too clinical with his BDP-1.  He uses a Purist Audio cables and finds it to bring the magic back.

I like to see the acknowledgment that cables really do come into play here.  The trouble is finding that just right combination, right?

[ted_b]

Konut, Thanks.  To be perfectly honest, I was look forward to this when George initially offered to send the gear.  Then, as the time approached, i began to get overwhelmed with other stuff and felt as if this evaluation would make my head explode.  But it's done none of that...I really look forward to each evening's listening/switching session.  This is fun.

Terry, I think the cables make a big difference, and it doesn't surprise me that the DIg4 could be called clinical in some systems.  There are two reasons for this, one: the cable needs a boatload of break-in (like 400-500 hours as you well know by your review of Morrow cables), and two: the resolution could tip the synergy too far left.  In my case, i think the cable is very neutral and amazingly resolute, but thanks to George for putting in the time to break this in.

[OgOgilby]

Konut, Thanks.  To be perfectly honest, I was look forward to this when George initially offered to send the gear.  Then, as the time approached, i began to get overwhelmed with other stuff and felt as if this evaluation would make my head explode.  But it's done none of that...I really look forward to each evening's listening/switching session.  This is fun.

Terry, I think the cables make a big difference, and it doesn't surprise me that the DIg4 could be called clinical in some systems.  There are two reasons for this, one: the cable needs a boatload of break-in (like 400-500 hours as you well know by your review of Morrow cables), and two: the resolution could tip the synergy too far left.  In my case, i think the cable is very neutral and amazingly resolute, but thanks to George for putting in the time to break this in.

I'm the one who found the DIG4 to be too clinical (I used analytical) in my system and I preferred the Purist cable. The DIG4 had at least 500 hours on it when I returned it and at one point I thought that I might sell the Purist since the DIG4 is a very good digital cable. Mike Morrow recommended breaking it in using an analog signal to speed up the process - which I did.

Note that I have an all SS system. With a tube amp and preamp setup like zybar has, the DIG4 would be my preferred digital cable. The Purist digital cable takes some of the edge off in my setup and adds a bit of warmth. The DIG4 is probably a more neutral cable.

-Greg

[TRADERXFAN]

I use a 2009 Mac Mini (8GB, SSD) as my primary music server, running SL 10.6.8 and using Pure Music 1.8's integer stream support into an Antelope Gold 24/384-capable DAC.  It is my best music to-date.

George (zybar) will be sending me his BDP-1 for demo/loan in a couple weeks, and I'll use it into the Gold via AES/EBU (DH labs D-110).  Stay tuned.

When you say your mac mini is tweaked, anything more than the above?