MacMini vs Bryston BDP-1

ted_b · « **Reply #40 on:** 13 Sep 2011, 02:05 am »

No, I just meant the 8 gigs, the SSD, and the fact that I have all the unnecessary apps turned off (bluetooth, wifi, spotlight, etc), and remain headless. It is dedicated to music serving, period.

lokie · « **Reply #41 on:** 13 Sep 2011, 12:17 pm »

Ted,

Thanks for the review. Any comments on interface, remote ap comparisons, album art, lp info input and other non-SQ/usability issues. Thanks- Doug

Quote

While the DAC absolutely has a bigger influence over the areas you mentioned above, I have found that all of that is definitely impacted by what feeds the DAC. For example, I was stunned at the difference in performance levels between the Modwright Transporter and Bryston BDP-1. The two didn't sound even remotely close in the areas of soundstage, macro and mirco details, realism, and overall ability to draw one into the music. The BDP-1 was far superior in every way.

Mr. Zybar- Not the most objective rhetoric but thanks for going to the trouble of sending your gear to Ted.

headshrinker2 · « **Reply #42 on:** 13 Sep 2011, 12:45 pm »

+1

Quote from: zybar on 12 Sep 2011, 01:46 pm

Ted,

While the DAC absolutely has a bigger influence over the areas you mentioned above, I have found that all of that is definitely impacted by what feeds the DAC. For example, I was stunned at the difference in performance levels between the Modwright Transporter and Bryston BDP-1. The two didn't sound even remotely close in the areas of soundstage, macro and mirco details, realism, and overall ability to draw one into the music. The BDP-1 was far superior in every way.

George

ted_b · « **Reply #43 on:** 13 Sep 2011, 03:38 pm »

Quote from: lokie on 13 Sep 2011, 12:17 pm

Ted,

Thanks for the review. Any comments on interface, remote ap comparisons, album art, lp info input and other non-SQ/usability issues. Thanks- Doug

The interface in my comparison is simply the iPod Touch (or it's mPad big brother on my iPad for grins, but I don't use it as my remote day-to-day). The front panel of the BDP-1 is nice and informative (especially for things like USB drive loading and firmware updates) but it's too far away from me to be of any use, nor did I expect it to be. No big deal.

The remote GUI's are second nature to me (I used mpod extensivley when I ran a Linux Alix music server as front end) so I will say I can live with either one of them. What is very nice about the mpod interface in my setup, though, is the fact that I use wav files almost exclusively (cuz i like their sound, not a topic for debate here on thsi thread) and when they reside outside of iTunes they are normally quite dumb (i.e poor metadata). However, mpod has no issues whatsoever with them, easily finds their artist, album info and usually grabs the correct album art as well. In some cases the album art is different than the ones I loaded in iTunes (a very kludgy process that I have down to a science, and have documented, but a PITA nonetheless) cuz it picks an alternate cover version, but I really don't care. For the very boutique labels it doesn't find I have to admit that i haven't delved at all into how to solve this, but I bet the solution is way easier than my Mac mini/iTunes/iTunify/coverartserver.py solution for all my iTunes wav art.

As far as super-metadata (like lyrics, FM.com-based artists info, website links, etc) I could care less. Sorry. I simply need accurate artist/track/title/album info, a good depiction of cover art and I'm satisfied. I don't use playlists heavily, but both GUI's allow for easy creation/editing and deletion.

So....I would give useability award to the BDP-1 in that all you need to do is plug in a USB drive, plug in an ethernet cable and fire up any number of mpd client remotes. My Mac Mini is headless and therefore requires a VNC like my Logmein app to do any maintenance or restarting, handshaking with PM and the DAC driver, etc. But it's also a full function computer and can do many other things should you require it to.

Flexibility, of course, goes to the Mac Mini, but that's obvious. This comparison is only relevant in that we are talking about a (initially) low cost full-function computer vs a higher-cost minimalist dedicated transport. At the end of this comparo I will attempt to list the street prices for each setup (cables, software players, apps, etc).

ted_b · « **Reply #44 on:** 13 Sep 2011, 11:35 pm »

So I guess it's no surprise that I very much like the Bryston BDP-1 with my Antelope Gold/Voltikus DAC combo. It's simplicity, ultra-low noise floor, musical midrange and strong sense of jitter-free (or low jitter, I guess, is more accurate) clarity makes it an obvious choice when folks are shopping for digital transports.

(Note: My buddy Rob joined me last night and concurs with everything I've written here. He is quite surprised because he felt, as I did, that James's demo at RMAF last year did not show the BDP in great light, whether it was the PMC speakers, the room, etc. What he heard last night was nothing anywhere near what we heard at RMAF, but that was a very new product in a tough show environment.)

My 2009 Mac Mini has been shown to be a very nice transport, but I'm convinced one of its biggest weaknesses is its run-of-the-mill switching external power supply. This aspect of the Mini will be tested when my custyom Paul Hynes ps arrives in a week or so, but that adds a good $600 (the cost of the Mini) to the setup. Also, keep in mind that other Mac Mini owners think the later 2011 Mini sounds better than either the 2009 or 2010, even though it has to deal with a noisy internal power supply.

Mini ingredients:
Mini configuration (bought used on Ebay) $600
Pure Music software player $139
Wireworld Platinum Starlight USB cable $439

USB alternative:
April Stello US USB-to-SPIF converter $449

Bryston setup:
BDP-1 music player (Street price) $1800
Morrow Dig4 AES/EBU cable $210
3rd party power cord for BDP-1 $100-$400

So, the Bryston setup currently costs more (prior to Hynes ps add-on) performs better, and to my ears is a giant killer when it comes to even $10k cd transports out there. It's weaknesses are few, but are currently semi-show stoppers for me. I invested in a large NAS environment and the Bryston, although already comfortably living on my network, won't use it as a music file source. Also, albeit a nit, the Bryston "only" goes to 24/192 and cannot play some of the converted SACD rips and DXD stuff I own that is 24/352k..unlike my Gold USB. All this being said, if the Hynes ps doesn't take my Mini to new levels I may be calling James.

P.S. I'm still kinda lukewarm to the Stello U3. Yes, it's only $450 but so are a few of its competitors, namely the Audiophileo2....and it still requires a transport and a DAC, of course. But it's a good converter, does no harm, and I believe is still breaking in on my system. It got better each night, but will not supplant my Gold's USB as the USB-go-to.

I want to thank George (zybar) for his generosity in loaning me his stuff for several days. I will comment on another thread re: my final few nights with this stuff, starting tonight....namely comparing the two DACs....my Antelope Gold (via AES or coax) to the Bryston BDA-1 (AES or coax), running single ended into my Gold as preamp. I will use the Morrow Dig4 AES and Stereovox HDXV BNC to drive the BDP-1 into both DACS, swapping the cables mid-eval. Until then, enjoy your music. See you at RMAF.

TJHUB · « **Reply #45 on:** 14 Sep 2011, 01:16 am »

Great write up Ted. Thanks for taking your time to do this and write it all up. I am very interested in either the Mac Mini or BDP-1. You answered some questions I had very well.

Looking forward to your thoughts on the DACs too.

lokie · « **Reply #46 on:** 14 Sep 2011, 12:53 pm »

Nice write up.

My first general impression is there is just allot of moving parts to a server: usb converters, usb cables, spdif cables, power supplies, etc., etc..

Your comment:

Quote

the later 2011 Mini sounds better than either the 2009 or 2010, even though it has to deal with a noisy internal power supply.

Has me wondering what an external PS would do on the 2011?

Looking forward to your Hynes PS impressions.

Thanks again to Ted and Mr. Zybar.

headshrinker2 · « **Reply #47 on:** 14 Sep 2011, 01:04 pm »

Great contribution to the forum. Thanks for the time and effort!

While you clearly liked (and preferred) the BDP-1, I remain a bit unclear from your write-up whether you felt these two sources were more similar or different. You point out a few specific dimensions in which the BDP-1 excelled. And you gave the BDP-1 glowing praise by describing it as a "giant killer" relative to even expensive CDP's.

I know this is impossible to quantify, but was the BDP-1 generally superior to the MacMini to your ears? And if so, by a few notches.. or by several? Inquiring minds want to know...

Thanks again.

simon wagstaff · « **Reply #48 on:** 14 Sep 2011, 02:08 pm »

One of the nice things about the Mac Mini is the toslink optical output. I realize that it is limited to 24/96 but I feel that it is superior to using the USB output and wouldn't consider using the USB with the toslink available.

I am using Decibel and like that a lot as well.

ted_b · « **Reply #49 on:** 14 Sep 2011, 02:11 pm »

Simon,
That is very interesting. I have never liked the optical out of the Mini; to each his own.

ted_b · « **Reply #50 on:** 14 Sep 2011, 02:24 pm »

Headshrinker2,
The BDP-1 was a 90 on my scale, while the best setup to-date for my Mac Mini is an 85. I am not yet ready to make a change due to the open issues surrounding my Hynes PS upgrade. The lesser Hynes tour ps took my Alix Linux box from say a 65 to an 80 (however, it was woking from a much cheaper stock ps, and everyone knows the last few points are always the toughest).

My point system is not at all scientific, but is just a bit of a quantification of gut feel, frankly, and I take points off for features missing (BDP loses points for not having DSD, 384k and NAS capability..which would make it perfect.) It beats the Mac Mini in noise floor and jitter performance (as far as I can tell).

ADDDENDUM: I failed to follow up on one aspect of the BDP vs Mini performance that had been asked of me.....complex music. I didn't throw bombastic symphonies at it but played Mahler's 4th (Ivan Fischer, Channel Classics 24/192) and Shostakovich's 5th (Cleveland Orchestra, Telarc SACD rip at 24/176k). I also used a Bill Frisell cut from gone, like a train that gets a bit congested (great tonality on that album!!). In each case the BDP-1 sailed through with less fatigue and less congestion and timing issues than the Mac Mini via USB. I simply chalk it up to my jitter argument ; i.e jitter to me sounds like what looking through sunglasses in the rain looks like...slight smearing and halos. And if you follow that analogy, if you are watching one figure move, it's not nearly as confusing as watching many figures move.

simon wagstaff · « **Reply #51 on:** 14 Sep 2011, 03:03 pm »

Quote from: ted_b on 14 Sep 2011, 02:11 pm

Simon,
That is very interesting. I have never liked the optical out of the Mini; to each his own.

It might have something to do with the USB input on my Pioneer TSX 59i. It is an older implementation of the USB input, from perhaps 4-5 years ago. The Pioneer also uses legato link and upsampling. I use the memory play feature of Decibel and it's seem to be pretty low jitter.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #52 on:** 15 Sep 2011, 01:34 am »

Sure wish someone could get a Mach2 music server to you Ted. That would be a good comparison since the Mach2 is about the same price as the Bryston.

ted_b · « **Reply #53 on:** 15 Sep 2011, 01:40 am »

Quote from: OzarkTom on 15 Sep 2011, 01:34 am

Sure wish someone could get a Mach2 music server to you Ted. That would be a good comparison since the Mach2 is about the same price as the Bryston.

I'm open to it.

lokie · « **Reply #54 on:** 15 Sep 2011, 12:47 pm »

Quote

Sure wish someone could get a Mach2 music server to you Ted. That would be a good comparison since the Mach2 is about the same price as the Bryston.

That would be very interesting. They also confirm the superiority of their '2011 mini's (compared to earlier models). I'm curious as to their power supply schemes on the 2011's.

FWIW- I'll throw in my Polestar Axis USB cable for a few more giggles.

headshrinker2 · « **Reply #55 on:** 15 Sep 2011, 01:03 pm »

+1

Quote from: OzarkTom on 15 Sep 2011, 01:34 am

Sure wish someone could get a Mach2 music server to you Ted. That would be a good comparison since the Mach2 is about the same price as the Bryston.

headshrinker2 · « **Reply #56 on:** 15 Sep 2011, 01:52 pm »

Thanks very much for the further clarification. Reviews, reactions and comparisons will always be very subjective and difficult to quantify (i.e. unless we are talking about some objective measurement), but I find they are still useful and informative. So many ways to listen and describe audio. And we all have different things that we tend to notice more.. or value more.

If it ultimately brings me closer to the music, it's all good...

Quote from: ted_b on 14 Sep 2011, 02:24 pm

Headshrinker2,
The BDP-1 was a 90 on my scale, while the best setup to-date for my Mac Mini is an 85. I am not yet ready to make a change due to the open issues surrounding my Hynes PS upgrade. The lesser Hynes tour ps took my Alix Linux box from say a 65 to an 80 (however, it was woking from a much cheaper stock ps, and everyone knows the last few points are always the toughest).

My point system is not at all scientific, but is just a bit of a quantification of gut feel, frankly, and I take points off for features missing (BDP loses points for not having DSD, 384k and NAS capability..which would make it perfect.) It beats the Mac Mini in noise floor and jitter performance (as far as I can tell).

ADDDENDUM: I failed to follow up on one aspect of the BDP vs Mini performance that had been asked of me.....complex music. I didn't throw bombastic symphonies at it but played Mahler's 4th (Ivan Fischer, Channel Classics 24/192) and Shostakovich's 5th (Cleveland Orchestra, Telarc SACD rip at 24/176k). I also used a Bill Frisell cut from gone, like a train that gets a bit congested (great tonality on that album!!). In each case the BDP-1 sailed through with less fatigue and less congestion and timing issues than the Mac Mini via USB. I simply chalk it up to my jitter argument ; i.e jitter to me sounds like what looking through sunglasses in the rain looks like...slight smearing and halos. And if you follow that analogy, if you are watching one figure move, it's not nearly as confusing as watching many figures move.

ted_b · « **Reply #57 on:** 15 Sep 2011, 01:54 pm »

I was a bit tongue-in-cheek (about the Mach2Mini possibility).

The Bryston combo heads back to George (zybar) tomorrow.

JfTM · « **Reply #58 on:** 15 Sep 2011, 06:30 pm »

What I'd like to see is a comparison of the BDP and the PK100. They have the same beginnings, different execution. The BDP is a little more than 2X the money; does it sound 2X better?

ted_b · « **Reply #59 on:** 15 Sep 2011, 06:53 pm »

Quote from: JfTM on 15 Sep 2011, 06:30 pm

What I'd like to see is a comparison of the BDP and the PK100. They have the same beginnings, different execution. The BDP is a little more than 2X the money; does it sound 2X better?

This is an Apple Circle so I doubt you'd see it here.

I'm gonna fire up my Alix Voyage MPD box again to revisit too.