[Snegrah]

Gentlemen:

I've been in the backround consulting with Danny and AZRYAN on the Alphas and finally decided to go with the Alpha project.  I will be starting this week with an subcontractor who builds furniture and cabinetry.

This looks to be a "slam dunk" as far as the cabinetry goes.  When I look at all the tools in this guys shop, it makes the building of these things seem easy....I hope.

Question for Danny (or anyone in the know), can I route/radius the two front edges of the cabinet?  I believe the veneer will wrap it succesfully...no?

Still haven't told my wife about these....  

Note to Danny:  AZRYAN has been a HUGE assistance with his wealth of information, comments, opinions, etc. on my going forward with this project.  If he's not on the payroll...consider it.

For those who are interested, I currently have Linzwitz's DYI "Orions".  A beautiful speaker in many ways.  I'm just a sucker for large speakers that play at realistic levels with an "audiophile" touch.  I am hoping that these fit the bill.  I have had, Vandersteen 3A,  Newform Research R30 (?), Martin Logan ReQuests, Magnapan 3.6, Dunlavy IVa, VMPS   FF1 ...none were keepers for me.  The Orions (65 lbs. ea.) - quad amped w/active Xover have been the best for me thus far.

Wish me luck!

P.s., Danny, I will get back to you next week to get the rest of the parts.

Tom

[azryan]

Hey thanks man. Just meant to answer your questions.

Like this one...
"-can I route/radius the two front edges of the cabinet?-"

Yeah. You just mean roundover the vertical edges of the top face plate right? That's what I did.

"-I believe the veneer will wrap it succesfully...no?-"

Yep. And my cheapo router only takes 1/4" shank bits and I couldn't find a 3/4" roundover that wasn't a 1/2" shank so I had to use a 1/2" roundover. Danny said it would be fine soundwise and veneer-wise it was no problem. Veneer can bend almost 90 degrees so real easy to roll it around the corners.

I can give you the rundown of exactly what I did when you're at that stage too.

I don't know how they do the cabinets where they round over all the edges though. Someone like Brian Bunge might be able to help you if you want to do that maybe?

Good luck and take pictures!! heheh

jonwb,
Now you're in a race man. Can't let Tom pass you up. hehe

I'd ljust ike to hear lots of other people's opinions on them.

I know I feel they're the best speaker I've ever heard (barring the Epiphany's Danny's designed, but those were hooked to FAR more costly gear too).

I can't wait to hear how  Tom finds them compared to the Orion which is such a totally diff. design.

Note... It'll take a while to break in those woofers. I suggest some techno played realy loud while you're gone. hehe

Danny suggested I place my Alphas much farther apart than I had them and at a month old I thought it made the imaging no longer razor sharp.

After I heard the Epihpanies image this well but much father apart I tried it again and the imaging was all there now. It just makes the soundstage even larger/grander with more space between instruments.

They're 9.5' apart from the inner edges, and I had thought for a long time that no speakers should be more that ~8' apart if you want the best imaging from them.
Not so with these.

Keep us posted Tom!

[jonwb]

jonwb,
Now you're in a race man. Can't let Tom pass you up. hehe

I wouldn't be feelin' too bad about my chances if it weren't for this little tidbit...

...and finally decided to go with the Alpha project. I will be starting this week with an subcontractor who builds furniture and cabinetry.

This looks to be a "slam dunk" as far as the cabinetry goes. When I look at all the tools in this guys shop, it makes the building of these things seem easy....I hope.  

At least Snegrah is smart enough to seek professional help.  

[jonwb]

Tom,

If you haven't already, you may want to read this thread:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=5464&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Where, among other musings, I detailed some of my experiences with "professionally" constructed enclosures.  The lesson you should read in all that is:

THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS

Its definately smart to have these beasts professionally built, but make sure you know, THEY KNOW, exatcly how to build these things.  The .PDF prints are fine for someone w/ half a brain, but don't assume they'll interpret them correctly.  There are a few dimensions that aren't on the prints that they'll need (like drivers sizes/brim thickness/corner radii).  Let me know if you need a hand w/ these.

Best of luck... BTW, what finish are you planning on?

[Snegrah]

jonwb:

Too funny and sad.  I've been going over the plans on a daily basis and think that I can pull it off.  I am a contractor and under my direction with his tools I hope to get these done in two days....if we don't start fighting.  Afterall, I will be in HIS shop using HIS tools.  

These are assembled with glue and screws or glue and pin gun or?

I also have one of each driver to help with the actual dimensions.

We'll see.......

I may use Cherry, stained to match the Salamander racks.

Photos?  Yeah, he might get a kick out of seeing his shop in this forum... we'll see....

Tom

[Danny Richie]

Question for Danny (or anyone in the know), can I route/radius the two front edges of the cabinet? I believe the veneer will wrap it succesfully...no?

Yea, no problem rolling the veneer all the way around it.

Note to Danny: AZRYAN has been a HUGE assistance with his wealth of information, comments, opinions, etc. on my going forward with this project. If he's not on the payroll...consider it.

No, he is not on the payroll. He is just a happy customer. Actually a really knowledgeable and well studied customer.

When I say well studied I mean he has really studied and learned pros and cons of designs like the Alpha and has experience listening to many other designs.

His question answering has been very accurate.

For those who are interested, I currently have Linzwitz's DYI "Orions".

That will be an interesting comparison.

The guy in CA that bought my fully assembled Alpha LS's has Orion's. I think his room may have been a little large for his Orion's though.

He might have me some feedback on how they compare in a few weeks. I think the Alpha's have just now arrived to him.

[jonwb]

...I hope to get these done in two days....

   You're kidding right!  Two days would be a bit optimistic me thinks...

Just gluing everything up takes time...

[Snegrah]

Danny, put him in touch with me.  I'd love to yak with him!  

jonwb, TWO DAYS...guaranteed! hehhehhehhehheh?!?!?!?!?!?!?

I mean two days to cut, two days to glue, two days to assemble, two days....etc.

[Snegrah]

OK, we started at 10:30 a.m. and we got the cabinet pieces cut, the holes cut for the back and the dividers.  We set up the jigs for the holes in the front and the recess for the woofers.  Quitting time was 4:30.  Not bad for a days work....errr 5.5 hours!  

I could have stayed there all night.  But, it isn't my shop and I have to do the "When in Rome, do as the Roman's do." thing.

Tomorroww, we will assemble the cabinets and cut the holes in the front baffle.  If things go as well as they did today....these will be done....maybe.

I may not veneer at this time.  I do not want to take up his shop any more than necessary.  It's been great of him to allow me in there in the first place.

[azryan]

Look out jonwb,

Looks like he's gonna pretty much hit 2 days! Whoa!

Me thinks you spoke too soon. hehe

If he's got a real shop there with all the tools plus sharing the work I could see it going that fast.

I know I expected to need about a month to have the full Alpha kit cost so I leisurely started cutting out the MDF expecting to take several weeks.

Turned out I cut it all in one day.

I had to let the stack of MDF sit there for a month till I got the kit and could measure actual drivers and ports to be sure I got it just right.

From there the time was mostly letting a couple glued pieces dry at a time 'cuz I only had a so many weights and clamps.

If I had a real shop (I just have a simple garage anf few tools) I coulda glued both entire cabinets at one time.

Sounds like Tom's gonna be able to do just that.

Wish I had a shop like that! hehe

Veneering, soldering x-overs, and mounting drivers all can be done in a day easy too.

[Snegrah]

Progress report....

1st day 5.5 hours - all pieces cut, all holes cut (except for front baffle), jigs made for woofers in front baffle.

2nd day 4.5 hours - assembly of cabinets less front baffle.

3rd day 5.0 hours - routed holes in front baffle.  Can you say SAWDUST???  Holy router bit Batman!  We're talking DUST.  

Day 2 & 3 would have gone much quicker if it weren't for my cell phone going off every 20 min., or if the Passload didn't jam up regularly, or if this guy didn't have people making unscheduled visits, "Just dropping by to say hello.", or not stopping for breakfast and lunch.

These things are HEAVY!  Not as heavy as the VMPS FF1's I had (350 lbs. ea.) but when your building them and moving them around during construction...they get heavy.

Danny, is the Black Hole flexable? Or should I leave the bottom off and slip it in from there?  Also, I'm going to make the bases removable with 4 ea. 3 1/2 x 3/8 bolts + T-Nuts.  Any comment on this idea?

Still having fun though!  Figure I have one more four hour session to complete.  Let's see 5.5 + 4.5 + 5.0 + 4.0 = 19 hours divided by 8 hours per day = 2 days + 3 hours.  I'm over by 3 hours for what I thought would take 16 hours.  If only I didn't go to breakfast(s) & lunch(s) - breaks momentum!

I'm gonna take these home and veneer them there...I think.

[Danny Richie]

Danny, is the Black Hole flexable? Or should I leave the bottom off and slip it in from there?

The BH-5 can be put in, in pieces. All can be applied through the woofer holes after assembly, and it is a little bit flexible.

[azryan]

Man that's fast.
Very cool. I think you'll easily hold the 'record'. hehe

If it helps.. I put the Alpha faces on after I put in all the BH5.

W/ the cabinets layed down and face up I put BH5 on the back and sides, but only up to an inch less than halfway up the sides.

The BH5 is SO thick I was able to then lay in my 5 cross brace dowels using the BH5 for them to rest on so they didn't move at all while the wood glue (I slathered on) dried.

I did try to make the dowels fit perfect enough that I did have to put a bit of pressure to set 'em though and choosing the one w/ the tightest fit to go dead center across the two sidewalls where the point of most flex would be.
I spaced the rest out fairly evenly, but still closer to the center 'cuz the cabinet is inherently strongest at the ends/corners.

You have real tools and a shop there so probably don't need any little tricks like that but thought I'd mention it.

Anyway... then I put in the rest of the BH5 around the dowels to fill up the rest of the sidewalls ('cept for the area close to the woofers).

You might be able to go in through the woofer holes, but I think you'd have a nicer time doing it before you glue the face on. Just my 2 cents.

Most of BH5 is soft foam, but there's two layers of pretty tough/hard damping sheets.

Hey, does that shop have an actual scale to weight the cabinets?
 
I know Danny made a rough guess on the weight of the Alphas in the past, but just for curiousity I'd like to see an actual scale weight.

Or maybe Danny knows exactly now that he just shipped off a pair?

[Snegrah]

azryan
No record setting here.  I took a couple of days off to deal with my construction company.  Why would putting the BH5 in before the faces help?????  The holes in the face are the same size...no?  I was considering leaving the bottoms (inner) off and putting the BH5 in from there.  I have not yet made or installed the dowels.  Gotta wedge them in there now.

You wrote that "w/the cabinets layed down......up to an inch less than halfway up the sides."  Why?  Is there a secret that you know and I'm about to find out?

 
off topic:  how do you quote from another email?


Logged in a couple of hours today.  Had to clean up first from all the work previously performed.

Had a bit of a pro-lem with routing the recess of the ribbon.  I mismeasured the center line for the woofers.  Now the distance from the edge of the ribbons and the woofers is 1/8".  The edge of the woofers to the side of the cabinet is -1" and the edge of the ribbons to the side of the cabinet is +5/8".  OOOOPS!  Hard to tell but, oh well!  

Next is mounting the faces installing the two inner bottoms and then the bases  oh yeah, the dowels too.  Maybe two more hours.

Do you have any tips on veneering?

No scale here.  But it weighs about HEAVY.

[jonwb]

Next is mounting the faces installing the two inner bottoms and then the bases oh yeah, the dowels too. Maybe two more hours.

...Snegrah... you're smokin' me man.  

[Snegrah]

jonwb:
These things weren't as easy as I thought.  I did not take into consideration the learning curve and the "working in other's shop" etiquette.  Next time I will be able to "smoke Em' out."  NEXT TIME?????

Are yours done???

Why not?

[jonwb]

Are yours done???

Why not?

you, my friend, are a funny guy!    

You can check on my construction thread (updated it last night).  I'm not even half-way done.  I'm still plugging away, while working around the steps that I haven't figured a good method for yet.  

For instance the tweeter recess.  Should I construct a large template and use a guide w/ a 3/4" bit so the four corners work out?  Or, I'm tempted to try and make a "one tweeter at a time"  template so I'll get the little corner sniglets between each set of tweeters.  Yea, I know its crazy to even try and do that, but I think it'd give it a very professional look.  Oh, the demons in my head...  make the voices stop!     Note to self, "Just finish the damn speakers!!!"

[Snegrah]

Yeah, you are "into" it.  I do not have that much patience   .  Whatever flaw I developed, I hope to cover with the veneer.  In the end, they will look and sound as they should.  

Today 2 hours and I built the bases (three times   ).  Then he wanted to go to lunch   .  When we got back I had to go on an estimate.  This starting and stopping really breaks my concentration!  That's why the bases were built three times  

jonwb, just finish the damn speakers!

[Snegrah]

See, my concentration is still screwed up....I didn't finish what I was saying.  I also secured one face.  So tomorrow, secure the other face, install the dowels, install the ports, sand everything to accept the veneer sometime in the future...and I'm done!         with the cabinets.  

I will wait for Dannys shipment and assemble them at home...without my wife knowing about it.  Oh, is she gonna be surprised  

[azryan]

"-No scale here. But it weighs about HEAVY.-"

hehehe. Yeah!

"-Why would putting the BH5 in before the faces help????? The holes in the face are the same size...no?-"

I'm not sure what you're asking?
What I'm saying is that I had the whole face sheet off and had a nice big open cabinet to easily lay in the BH5.

If you put the face on and then try to get the BH5 in through the woofer holes or up the bottom of the cabinet... that seems much much harder.

"-You wrote that "w/the cabinets layed down......up to an inch less than halfway up the sides." Why? Is there a secret that you know and I'm about to find out?-"

Hmm? If you look at where I said that, I kept going -explaining why I did that and what I did after that.
I tried to be as clear as I could be?

I put the BH5 half-way up, layed in the dowels, let 'em dry, then put in the rest of the BH5 around 'em.
The BH5's so thick Even if I hadn't glued the dowels they wouldn't be able to move from where they are. heh

"-i]off topic: how do you quote from another email?-"

I just copy/paste. I never learn't it meself. hehe

On veneering...

Here's what I did. Note- it might NOT be the best way or anything, in fact it might be retarded, BUT it does for sure work which is all I can say. heh

I used a 4x8 sheet for each cabinet and cut it down to a bit over 6' tall so there wouldn't be lots of scrap veneer flopping around.

First I took some of that scrap and veneered the bottom. Why? I dunno. Just to be stupid I think. It 'felt right'. hehe

Then I put the cabinets each on a book smaller than the cainet on all sides so there was no book sticking out.

That way I could put the veneer on with a bit extra on the top and bottom and trim it off after it was all stuck on.

I next took some more scrap and veneered the top. I didn't use any fancy trimmer. I just filed down the edged and sanded 'em so 100% nothing stuck out past the edge (which would have pushed at the veneer going on the sides/back/front.

Worked fine but if you've got a trimmer I guess that'd be much faster. I did this all in one afternoon though.

Next I took the big sheet of veneer and started on the outter edge of the ribbon cutout since it's a nice perfect line to start with. Nothing to trim on that edge.

If you can get someone to hold the large sheet while you tack down the veneer then that'd be perfect. When the two contact cemented bits touch (the veneer and the cabinet) it's BONDEDDDD.
Get it right the first time or cry like a girl. heh

Then I carefully wrapped the veneer on the side, then the back, then the other side and trimmed it exactly where the vertical center of each woofer is.

The veneer would otherwise wrap just a bit further than that, but stopping at the center of the woofers means the spots where you have a seam are almost microscopic.

Then I took as large 'a sections of the left over veneer as I had and filled in the gaps between the inner neo slot edge and that woofer center line.

I HOPE this makes sense?

Note- again... try to cut those pieces right where a woofer almost touches the neo slot.

Then I carefully trimmed all the holes w/ an x-acto blade.

Where you need a piece to be dead on flush seam with another piece I overlapped the veneer and filed the top sheet down and then sanded and pressed on the veneer till it was totally flush and bonded next to the other piece.

Most of those spots look so tight you'd never tell it was a seam even if you put your face right up to it.

Now... this may have been a totally demented way to do it, but it did work and no one has even been able to tell where any of the seams are on mine.

In fact they usually guess somewhere on the back -just assuming that's probably where someone would put a seam.

Oh... and I still had scrap veneer to venner two MDF fence blocks which will be my Centurion speaker stands -and my modded Pannie will site between them.