X-Otica, was it ever to be?

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skeeter99

X-Otica, was it ever to be?
« on: 24 Aug 2011, 03:53 am »
Danny,

I was looking through the "Best deal on loudspeaker kits ever" thread and went through one of the links over to the old AV123 Wetpaint Wiki page. I was reminiscing and going through all the old designs and came across the X-Otica page: http://av123.wetpaint.com/page/x-otica#fbid=wDQjwHu-XYA Was this a design you were working on Danny or was this an AV123 design on its own? Just curious as I always thought it was a very cool concept and love the OB sound.

Scott

persisting1

Re: X-Otica, was it ever to be?
« Reply #1 on: 24 Aug 2011, 08:48 am »
Danny has hinted that the new projects with his OB drivers might be those that never were. 

In his words....

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=97188.msg973671#msg973671

I love the looks of the x-otica on the wetpaint site.  I'd pick up a pair of those for sure.

skeeter99

Re: X-Otica, was it ever to be?
« Reply #2 on: 24 Aug 2011, 02:19 pm »
Danny has hinted that the new projects with his OB drivers might be those that never were. 

In his words....

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=97188.msg973671#msg973671

I love the looks of the x-otica on the wetpaint site.  I'd pick up a pair of those for sure.

Ahh nice! I LOVED the look of X-Otica and thought it sounded like a very interesting design. It will be cool to see/hear what Danny cooks up  :thumb:

ebag4

Re: X-Otica, was it ever to be?
« Reply #3 on: 24 Aug 2011, 03:06 pm »
Very cool.  Put the tweeter in a CD wave guide and change the bass module to OB, better yet, use Danny's upcoming 8" servos right on the baffle and add the 12" in OB to the back of the unit to help balance the main baffle!!

Best,
Ed

kip_

Re: X-Otica, was it ever to be?
« Reply #4 on: 24 Aug 2011, 04:39 pm »
What I always wondered about this design was that since you have so many woofers, would you get the same benefits of a line array with regards to the immense soundstage?

What would the LS6 or LS9 gain over a design like this?

jeffh

Re: X-Otica, was it ever to be?
« Reply #5 on: 24 Aug 2011, 04:43 pm »



That looks nice and it looks like a fairly simple build.

skeeter99

Re: X-Otica, was it ever to be?
« Reply #6 on: 24 Aug 2011, 04:46 pm »
What I always wondered about this design was that since you have so many woofers, would you get the same benefits of a line array with regards to the immense soundstage?

What would the LS6 or LS9 gain over a design like this?

Those are great questions, I don't know but I bet Danny does  :thumb:

S Clark

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Re: X-Otica, was it ever to be?
« Reply #7 on: 24 Aug 2011, 04:54 pm »
What I always wondered about this design was that since you have so many woofers, would you get the same benefits of a line array with regards to the immense soundstage?

What would the LS6 or LS9 gain over a design like this?
Although the 8 woofer array means very low excursion and therefore low distortion, it still hands off the signal to a dome tweeter, so probably crossed over somewhere from 1700 to 2500 hz.  The planar magnetics of the LS9 is crossed in the 800's, making for a faster more detailed midrange and treble.  The biggest advantage of the X-Otica would be in its open baffle sound. 
Scott

skeeter99

Re: X-Otica, was it ever to be?
« Reply #8 on: 24 Aug 2011, 05:13 pm »


That looks nice and it looks like a fairly simple build.

Agreed. Although the tweeter looks like it might be a tad low, maybe move one woofer down and the tweeter up but that wouldn't look as cool ...

Danny Richie

Re: X-Otica, was it ever to be?
« Reply #9 on: 24 Aug 2011, 06:04 pm »
Okay, here is the deal on all of that stuff.

Mark had ideas about building on the X-Series and a few models above the X-Statik. The whole product line was beating up anything near it in price so it was a great idea to keep going with it. And the open baffle mids on the X-Statik and X-Voce did take things up a level. So it was only logical to take it a step further and go full open baffle.

At one point Mark had Santiago build out some test baffles and had them sent here. I still have them. And I'd sell them pretty cheap to. I'll send the money to Santiago with money for a bunch of this other stuff that I am moving for him.

What the design really needed was some high Qts drivers that didn't exist yet. I had some prototypes with truncated frames to test with but it just never came to be. And then AV123 closed up and promises of X-Optima and X-Otica were just never fulfilled.

Lately I have been working on some new drivers with new models in mind and primarily have had two models in my head. I usually don't let out this stuff too much until after measuring and testing. Sometimes things change a little along the way if things don't pan out so well or if a better way is realized.

So here is what I have in the works. I posted this little teaser earlier.

Quote
"New 6.5" woofers are also under development that are designed for open baffle applications. It's basically a new super woofer with the best of the best in all areas.

It uses the same polymer frame as the M-165X, and will use a paper cone. But instead of a 26mm voice coil, it has a 44mm voice coil. It also has a Copper phase plug and Copper shorting rings. It will use the XBL^ motor and a Neo magnet. I will have 8 ohm and 16 ohm versions made, and they are specifically designed for open baffle applications.

These will also be the only woofers of their kind on the market.

The first sample didn't look bad, but has a few issues to work out and improve. Don't hold your breath on this one. This kind of development work takes a little time. I am shooting for something before the end of the year.

Also in the works is a tweeter with a wave guide."
Well, I got some new data today on the new M-165XN, and the response curve is a dream. I am now pushing for them to bring the sensitivity up a little. We will see where that goes. There will be a M-165XN-8 and a M-165XN-16.

The new 8" servo subs are about to be on the water and will be here soon. I will post more data on them when I can find some time.

Okay that said, about those two new models. Both revolve around the use of a wave guide for the tweeter used in the X-Series speakers. It is that really good dome tweeter used in the Encore versions, X-Statik, and X-Voce. I think most of you already are aware of the benefits of using it in a wave guide.

Model 1 will use a wave guided tweeter and a single 8 ohm M-165XN. Below it will be three 16 ohm (in parallel) X-Series woofers (more 6.5" woofers using the same frame). The three lower woofers will be controlled with a plate amp that might be a new SA-2 model. It will be similar to the SA-1 in that it will have a built in transform circuit to mirror image the roll off of an open baffle or sealed box woofer. But instead of a rumble filter killing it a 20Hz, I am thinking of making it adjustable for 20Hz, 28Hz, 40Hz and 55Hz. This amp could then be used in a number or different open baffle applications with various woofers. This would be a very low cost kit sold with a front baffle or sold with a flat pack enclosure. This would also be great for small to mid sized rooms.

Model 2 will use a wave guided tweeter and a pair of 16 ohm M-165XN woofers in parallel. So sensitivity levels will be very good. This model will also have three of our new 8" servo subs below it. And I think we all know what servo control in an open baffle means. It will have un-matched performance and flexibility.

I then contacted Mark and asked him what he thought of my using the names X-Optima and X-Otica for these two new models, and he loved the idea. Not only are they great names, not only does it build on the X-Series kits, but it fulfills a promise that has yet to be realized.

It's coming.

Sounds like fun huh?

skeeter99

Re: X-Otica, was it ever to be?
« Reply #10 on: 24 Aug 2011, 06:27 pm »
Okay, here is the deal on all of that stuff.

Mark had ideas about building on the X-Series and a few models above the X-Statik. The whole product line was beating up anything near it in price so it was a great idea to keep going with it. And the open baffle mids on the X-Statik and X-Voce did take things up a level. So it was only logical to take it a step further and go full open baffle.

At one point Mark had Santiago build out some test baffles and had them sent here. I still have them. And I'd sell them pretty cheap to. I'll send the money to Santiago with money for a bunch of this other stuff that I am moving for him.

What the design really needed was some high Qts drivers that didn't exist yet. I had some prototypes with truncated frames to test with but it just never came to be. And then AV123 closed up and promises of X-Optima and X-Otica were just never fulfilled.

Lately I have been working on some new drivers with new models in mind and primarily have had two models in my head. I usually don't let out this stuff too much until after measuring and testing. Sometimes things change a little along the way if things don't pan out so well or if a better way is realized.

So here is what I have in the works. I posted this little teaser earlier.
Well, I got some new data today on the new M-165XN, and the response curve is a dream. I am now pushing for them to bring the sensitivity up a little. We will see where that goes. There will be a M-165XN-8 and a M-165XN-16.

The new 8" servo subs are about to be on the water and will be here soon. I will post more data on them when I can find some time.

Okay that said, about those two new models. Both revolve around the use of a wave guide for the tweeter used in the X-Series speakers. It is that really good dome tweeter used in the Encore versions, X-Statik, and X-Voce. I think most of you already are aware of the benefits of using it in a wave guide.

Model 1 will use a wave guided tweeter and a single 8 ohm M-165XN. Below it will be three 16 ohm (in parallel) X-Series woofers (more 6.5" woofers using the same frame). The three lower woofers will be controlled with a plate amp that might be a new SA-2 model. It will be similar to the SA-1 in that it will have a built in transform circuit to mirror image the roll off of an open baffle or sealed box woofer. But instead of a rumble filter killing it a 20Hz, I am thinking of making it adjustable for 20Hz, 28Hz, 40Hz and 55Hz. This amp could then be used in a number or different open baffle applications with various woofers. This would be a very low cost kit sold with a front baffle or sold with a flat pack enclosure. This would also be great for small to mid sized rooms.

Model 2 will use a wave guided tweeter and a pair of 16 ohm M-165XN woofers in parallel. So sensitivity levels will be very good. This model will also have three of our new 8" servo subs below it. And I think we all know what servo control in an open baffle means. It will have un-matched performance and flexibility.

I then contacted Mark and asked him what he thought of my using the names X-Optima and X-Otica for these two new models, and he loved the idea. Not only are they great names, not only does it build on the X-Series kits, but it fulfills a promise that has yet to be realized.

It's coming.

Sounds like fun huh?

OOH! This keeps getting better and better! I wanted these from the first time I talked to Mark about them years ago. The X-Otica was really the one I wanted. I mean, come on bigger is always better right  :green:  This sounds very promising and I've kinda been itching lately to build my first GR Kit so we'll see how this progresses. Thank you for all the info Danny! It really would be great to see this line fully fleshed out with these very unique products.

Scott

wired4sound

Re: X-Otica, was it ever to be?
« Reply #11 on: 24 Aug 2011, 06:36 pm »
I imagine you will have these models at RMAF, together with the tricked out Super-V? It will be great if you can! :thumb:

HT cOz

Re: X-Otica, was it ever to be?
« Reply #12 on: 24 Aug 2011, 06:39 pm »
I can't wait to see what Ruben will do with these kits!!!   :lol:  I am officially pre-jealous of these speakers. :thumb:

Hank

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Re: X-Otica, was it ever to be?
« Reply #13 on: 25 Aug 2011, 01:01 pm »
VEEEERY INTERSTING INDEED!   :thumb:

skeeter99

Re: X-Otica, was it ever to be?
« Reply #14 on: 29 Aug 2011, 07:19 pm »
I am officially pre-jealous of these speakers. :thumb:

LOL! That's one of the greatest statements ever!

SoCalWJS

Re: X-Otica, was it ever to be?
« Reply #15 on: 29 Aug 2011, 10:35 pm »
I imagine you will have these models at RMAF, together with the tricked out Super-V? It will be great if you can! :thumb:

Would LOVE to hear what Danny is taking to RMAF this year.  :green:

jeffh

Re: X-Otica, was it ever to be?
« Reply #16 on: 3 Sep 2011, 02:14 am »
...Okay that said, about those two new models. Both revolve around the use of a wave guide for the tweeter...

What would this look like?  Do you have any pictures you would be willing to share?

Danny Richie

Re: X-Otica, was it ever to be?
« Reply #17 on: 3 Sep 2011, 03:09 am »
What would this look like?  Do you have any pictures you would be willing to share?

In a few weeks maybe.

SlushPuppy

Re: X-Otica, was it ever to be?
« Reply #18 on: 4 Sep 2011, 10:29 pm »
Danny,

Your OB-5 and OB-7 kits use a BG Neo 3 pdr tweeter. Why did you choose a dome for this design? Would it be possible to have optional tweeters in these kits, or do you feel the dome is good enough to make that unnecessary? I'm seriously considering the all-out version of this design (model 2) and would prefer to have the better of the two tweeters - regardless of price.

Also, could you give us a rough guess on how low the bass will go with the three 8" servo subs per side?

I know you don't like giving away too much during the design phase, I'm just trying to narrow my choices.


Thanks,

Slush

Danny Richie

Re: X-Otica, was it ever to be?
« Reply #19 on: 5 Sep 2011, 03:42 am »
Quote
Your OB-5 and OB-7 kits use a BG Neo 3 pdr tweeter. Why did you choose a dome for this design?

I am using the dome tweeter in a wave guide to control the directivity and lower the crossover point. Those are big advantages.

Quote
Would it be possible to have optional tweeters in these kits, or do you feel the dome is good enough to make that unnecessary?

If you want to use the Neo's then I have others kits using them. There isn't going to be options for one or the other. They aren't inter-changeable.

Quote
Also, could you give us a rough guess on how low the bass will go with the three 8" servo subs per side?

They're servo controlled. They will do anything you want them to. They can play flat to 20Hz if that is what you want. The compromise is SPL levels and power that you can lay on them. Limiting the low end will increase over all SPL without running out of X-Max.