[Faust3D]

I am trying to see if I can find a good preamp to replace my Symphonic Line Rg2 Mk3. I like the tone and body of SL but I crave more transparency and speed while maintaining round punchy bass that SL has.

I used to have Audio Matiere Paraphrase, a huge french made pre that uses ECC88 x 4, EL84 x 4 and EZ81 x 2 tubes. It was an excellent preamp, but did not mate well with my power amps and had a tendency to overload the amp's inputs at high volume. It was very fast and sweet but not as full bodied as SL. Before that I had several CJ, Audible Illusion, and Hafler preamps, never liked the tonal balance that CJ and Audible Illusion that much, and Hafler was ok at best.

I have Transcendent Sound Grounded Grid Preamp at home for audition at the moment, with black beauty pot and Elna switch plus some nice caps, and I am underwhelmed. It's fast, transparent and dynamic, but has no body in the lower registers and is too dry for my taste. I can clearly hear it's sound character when I insert it in the chain. I have a nice 6L6 amp with volume control and when I insert GG it actually makes 6L6 amp loose it's nice round bass and mid-range sweetness, a no-no in my book.

Based on my ramblings above, what pre would you recommend? I am not sure on the price point but I am looking for mid-priced stuff not uber-fi.

My gear and room:

Digital Front End: Primare D20,  Museatex Bitstream DAC, Custom CS1412/TDA1541A & ECC83/ECC88 class A output stage DAC

Amplification: Custom Made ECC88/MOSFET Amp, McCormack DNA-1 Deluxe, Pass Aleph 3, Symphonic Line RG11, Abraxas Audio 6L6 PP Pentode, Abraxas 6197 SEP Spud, VAC PA80/80

Speakers: SAP Trio, Stax ELS-F81, Gallo Nucleus Ref 1

Room Size: 20' X 15' X 8'

[wilsynet]

I've had a few preamps in my system over the past few years, including the following: Red Wine Audio Isabella, Mapletree 4A SE, Modwright SWL 9.0 SE, Lightspeed Attenuator, Dodd Buffer Preamp, Shindo Aurieges L, Music First TVC, and First Watt B1. 

I liked all of these preamps in their own way, although having said that, I quite obviously did not have all in my system at the same time.  Hence what I'm sharing is my memory and impressions rather than a head to head comparison.  Additionally, over time other components in my system have changed and so has the room.

The Shindo and Modwright are two that I would say communicate a certain harmonic completeness.  With the Shindo clearly superior.  The Dodd, Lightspeed, First Watt and Music First have exceptional clarity and transparency.  The Lightspeed requires careful system matching, and I thought the Music First was a touch strange and unnatural.

What I've been unable to find is a preamp that does it all.  I'm sure they exist, but perhaps not easily found in the price continuum that I've generally been shopping.

Very recently I did a head-to-head comparison of the Shindo and the Dodd.  The Shindo is musically beautiful and presents a rich harmonic foundation, but is missing a certain resolution which translated to a weakness in micro-dynamics, inner detail and sound stage depth.  The Dodd, on the other hand, was crystal clear, had great sound stage depth, but was a bit thin in the mid to lower bass region.  They're both very good preamplifiers, and I think the Dodd whether fully assembled retail or in DIY kit form is a bargain.  In particular for the Dodd, I recommend the 6H30P-DR super tube as it really does kick it up a notch.

If you want to stick to below $1500, you can more often than not find a Modwright SWL 9.0 SE available on Audiogon.  It has a terrific balance of warmth, detail, and drive.  It is not as detailed as the Dodd or the Lightspeed and it isn't as harmonically full as the Shindo, but as I said, it's a good balance.  If you don't like it, the Modwright is sensitive to tube rolling, and there are long threads about which tubes are best for which sound.

Having both the Shindo and the Dodd on hand was revelatory for me.  For the first time I really knew what I wanted, which is the absolute strengths of both combined into one.  I've said something like this before to myself, but always settled for some relative balance of the two.  Finally being resolutely dissatisfied with both, I recently placed an order for a TRL Dude.  Owners have remarked that this is a preamp that does it all, and while the price tag is quite expensive for me, many say that it's comparatively a high end bargain.

As for the Shindos, as you move up from the entry level Aurieges to more expensive Shindos like the Vosne-Romanee, I understand things become even more beautiful and even more detailed and hence more convincing.  Perhaps the preamp that would likely be a sure bet for me is the Shindo Vosne-Romanee, which Art Dudley described using the adjectives "the most musically insightful, emotionally captivating, intoxicatingly beautiful".  But the Vosne-Romanee is just too rich for my blood, and some who have heard both the TRL Dude and the higher end Shindos claim the Dude is quite competitive.

So I've put in my order for the TRL Dude, and we'll see in around 6 weeks if I am utterly delighted or I join the ranks of the jaded and disappointed audiophiles.  Site unseen and unheard, it's a bit of a risk but hey, I've always been comfortable with a bit of risk.

But to the task at hand, I think the Modwright is a very good preamplifier that may suit your needs.  Also, you may want to consider one of the newer Audio from Van Alstine preamps.  I got a chance to hear one at the recent California Audio Show and I thought it sounded good and perhaps even suitable for your needs.  But I did not spend enough time in the room to form a definitive opinion and the preamp never graced my system of course.  AVA has a 30 day return policy, so you would not be out of much coin (shipping) if you decide it isn't for you.

[Faust3D]

TRL Dude sounds like something I should look into, but I worry about reliability. Did you have any experience with VAC preamps? I really like VAC PA80/80 amp that I recently got and also like PA90 that my friend has, this got me thinking about VAC preamps. I heard VAC CPA some time ago and found it to be very nice compared to Audible Illusion 3A.

[Big Red Machine]

The Dude abides.   

[jtwrace]

I also have a TRL Dude on order.  I have the Dodd Buffer now.  We'll see!

[jtwrace]

BTW-there is a Dude on Audiogon now.  http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1318794308&/Tube-Research-Labs-The-Dude-pr

[BPoletti]

In terms of a really detailed neutral sound from a nice tube preamp below $1500 I don't think anything comes remotely close to a used Herron Audio VTSP-1.  IMO it set new standards when it was introduced about 10 years ago and is a real deal on the used market.  I think the manufacturer is still around supporting their electronics so that's not at all an issue.

[wilsynet]

No experience with VAC.

The Dude on Audiogon is not (in my opinion) as good of a deal as it would seem.  The unit is about 2 years old, which likely means that it does not have the Shallco 45 step attenuator and a number of other improvements that TRL has made over the past 2 years, including circuit and power supply improvements as well as casing, tooling and overall build quality.  The cosmetic / casing / build quality improvements may be less important to you.

The price of the Dude from 2 years ago was either $2800 or $3300.  What the seller is saying when he asks for $3300 is that he'd like to either break even or profit on the sale of a 2 year old component.

Current price on the Dude is $4000 (the web site is not up to date).  So the used Dude might be a good deal if we do not believe there is any difference between a 2 year old Dude and a contemporary Dude, but I think there are indeed relevant differences.  The Shallco 45 stepped attenuator alone is somewhere between $300-$500 in parts cost, and it is unknown to me how much Paul would ask to perform the labor for the upgrade.  I would estimate that this upgrade alone would wipe out most of the perceived savings of the used Dude.  Add to that the circuit and power supply improvements, and the used Dude is not in my opinion a good buy.

Wilson

[BobRex]

I'm not sure what your upper limit is, but I'd say check out Herron and Joule Electra.

[woodsyi]

This is what I wrote a few months back.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=88668.msg889805#msg889805

[bummrush]

Coda /Innersound

[wilsynet]

TRL Dude sounds like something I should look into, but I worry about reliability.

I believe TRL has been in business for over 10 years and business is currently brisk.  What he said to me suggested that he's got all of the business he can handle right now and doesn't want to grow his business any more than it is.  So the current rate of sales is what he's aiming for and doesn't want to get over his skis.  Given the uncertain fortunes of small scale boutique audio manufacturers from time to time, my guess is that this very conservative view regarding business will keep him around for a long time.

There was an issue with one owner who could not get rid of a persistent hum.  After much back and forth and misunderstanding and miscommunication over an unusually protracted length of time, TRL seems to have made good.  This seems to have been an isolated incident as I've heard no word of any other dissatisfaction with the TRL Dude.  This incident actually prevented me from executing a purchase earlier, but once I saw that it was finally resolved to everyone's satisfaction, I decided TRL no doubt has gone through some growing pains with the product but was ultimately going to do the right thing.

I'm not suggesting you buy the Dude of course.  Seems like some of us are rolling the dice here and we'll see how it goes.

[adydula]

The latest from Frank...

AvaStar Preamp....

http://avahifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=69&Itemid=205

Cost effective, great pre-amp...30 day money back....what can you loose here!

Starts at $1799 and works up a little with some options..it remote volume +$299.

Alex

[BPoletti]

I have one of these and can find few better, especially for the money.  Blows away everything I've heard for less than $5,000 and very few above $5,000 as good or better.  Going used for $1500 or so.  It is VERY cost effective because it's so good.  No built in phono stage, but its companion unit (VTPH-1) is an equally spectacular performer with few peers. 

Herron has been in business for over 10 years and still growing. 

http://www.herronaudio.com/vtspspecs.html

[Jon L]

TRL Dude sounds like something I should look into, but I worry about reliability. Did you have any experience with VAC preamps? I really like VAC PA80/80 amp that I recently got and also like PA90 that my friend has, this got me thinking about VAC preamps. I heard VAC CPA some time ago and found it to be very nice compared to Audible Illusion 3A.

A used VAC Standard LE is a great preamp.  There's not much inside the chassis, and I don't know what the secret is, but the thing is warm, dynamic, yet detailed..

[misterclean]

I have a Dude for sale that is as quiet as a mouse. There are no hum issues whatsoever and it as an astonishingly musical preamp, by far the best I've heard anywhere near its price range. I am selling it only because I am downsizing to a preamp that has an integrated phono stage. Otherwise, I would never part with the Dude.

Let me know if you have any questions. My username on Audiogon is waltersalas if you want to check my feedback there.

Thanks, and good luck!

[misterclean]

By the way, I just read the earlier posts and realized there is a link to the Dude I have for sale, and I need to correct some of the misinformation in one of the posts. My Dude DOES have the stepped volume control and was $3800, not $2800-3300 as stated above. It is unfortunate that someone would post such information when they are not in possession of the facts. The build quality of this preamp is beyond reproach. TRL does not make "eye candy" gear, but it is a solid preamp that is, in fact, built like a tank.

I have it right now in direct comparison to a VAC Renaissance MK II, which has recently been upgraded by Kevin Hayes. The VAC may be ever so slightly "sweeter" than the Dude (some may call it colored, but I just call it very slightly different), while the Dude may be just slightly more detailed. Otherwise, both are outstanding preamps. Any sane person could live with either. Again, if the VAC did not also have a great phono stage in it, I would not be selling the Dude.

I am willing to answer any questions you may have about the unit. You'll have to decide for yourself whether it is good deal, but the speculation that I am going to profit from selling the unit for $3300 (including upgraded Russian tubes) is ludicrous and just flat wrong.

Thanks,
Chris

[jtwrace]

By the way, I just read the earlier posts and realized there is a link to the Dude I have for sale, and I need to correct some of the misinformation in one of the posts.

I linked your ad but wasn't the one with the mis-information. 

[misterclean]

I appreciate the link and didn't mean to imply the misinformation came from you. It was in other posts in this thread.

By the way, Paul has made some changes in the Dude since this unit was manufactured, My volume control has 22 steps, and the chassis is slightly different. In fact, a lot of the Dudes have slightly different looks. I have no doubt there have been some modest improvements, but even Paul would not go so far as to say these changes represent a significant change in the sonics. Believe me, I inquired and decided against getting mine upgraded after communicating with him.

[wilsynet]

If I've drawn the wrong conclusions, I apologize.  It would be helpful if pictures were posted and more detail was given.  Regardless, apologies for getting it wrong.