Harman Kardon Amp/Preamp recommendations

SteveFord · « **on:** 19 Aug 2011, 03:03 am »

I've always like Harman Kardon gear so I'm going to put together an all Harman Kardon system to drive some Magnepan speakers - MMGs, DMW and MMGC.
I've got the HK tuner and CD player but need recommendations for the amp and preamp - integrated is fine but I will need to drive three channels and will need a volume control for the center one (woofer and center speaker).
That way I can turn down the DMW/MMGC so it blends in well with the MMGs.
Silver finish is a plus and all of the speakers are 4 Ohm.

timind · « **Reply #1 on:** 19 Aug 2011, 09:49 pm »

I am also a fan of the HK gear. As far as amps go, I like the PA2200 and 2400 amps from the mid nineties. They aren't so old as to need recapping, although it might not hurt soon. The design is very simple and straightforward with minimal negative feedback. These amps also don't seem to mind 4 ohm loads.
Just recently purchased a PA2200 on ebay and was very happy with the sound of this amp. I did a minor mod by removing the attached power cable and installing an IEC connector along with rewiring the AC input. I'm not saying this made it sound any different but it was a nice little project. After this project I replaced the existing wiring from the output board to the binding posts which were replaced with Cardas posts, the sound did improve. This was probably overkill as the materials used for these mods cost more than I paid for the amp.
I wish HK had built a preamp with a remote to mate with these amps. I'd be tempted to chuck any more expensive stuff and live with it.
One bit of advice, stay away from the newer Signature 1.5. It's a beast of an amp but reliability is terrible.

SteveFord · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 Aug 2011, 11:31 pm »

Thanks for the recommendations.
Any of their preamps worth getting or best to go elsewhere? I hate remotes so that's not an issue for me.

doug s. · « **Reply #3 on:** 27 Aug 2011, 05:27 am »

Quote from: SteveFord on 21 Aug 2011, 11:31 pm

Thanks for the recommendations.
Any of their preamps worth getting or best to go elsewhere? I hate remotes so that's not an issue for me.

check out the hk citation 17 (and the 16 amp, too. have a completely matched set, w/a citation 18 fm tuna - one of the best sounding tunas extant, after mods. even if you have unlimited budget.)

if you want to go tubes, check out the wintage hk preamps and amps; i have never experienced them, but they get raves from the wintage folks.

doug s.

Rclark · « **Reply #4 on:** 27 Aug 2011, 06:41 am »

Huh, I had always thought of HK as low level gear. Guess I was misinformed!

timind · « **Reply #5 on:** 27 Aug 2011, 12:12 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 27 Aug 2011, 06:41 am

Huh, I had always thought of HK as low level gear. Guess I was misinformed!

Low level gear? Well if you are looking for status symbol audio jewelry, then it is low level. If you are looking for quality sound on a budget, then no.
I'm talking about used gear that is 15+ years old. The design/build quality is excellent IMO. I have owned quite a few amps in that range and I always enjoy the HK pieces. They provide a satisfying musical experience in comparison.
My PA2200 seriously reminds me of the Portal Panache I enjoyed so much, the main difference is the HK is quieter.

doug s. · « **Reply #6 on:** 27 Aug 2011, 04:26 pm »

here's a nice wintage citation l tube preamp, refurb'd by bob carver:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Beautifully-Restored-Citation-Tube-Preamp-Bob-Carver-/180714252722

google "harman kardon citation", on a search site, or on ebay, and you will find lotsa cool stuff...

doug s.

Rclark · « **Reply #7 on:** 27 Aug 2011, 07:03 pm »

Oh you're talking vintage gear. From my understanding their new stuff is not at the same level.

timind · « **Reply #8 on:** 27 Aug 2011, 07:57 pm »

Yeah, I'm not talking about not talking about new gear, and I didn't think the OP was either. But, I understand their newest integrated amp is pretty good.

SteveFord · « **Reply #9 on:** 27 Aug 2011, 09:19 pm »

Thanks for the input and I am talking about their older stuff.
Maybe not as old as my two tube HK tuners, though!
I had to laugh at my last repair bill as instead of Harman Kardon F50x it was listed as "Antique Radio"!
That Citation 1 looks really nice but is a bit further upscale than what I'm looking for at the moment.

SteveFord · « **Reply #10 on:** 8 Sep 2011, 09:18 pm »

Looks like there's a Citation 22 coming my way!

We'll see how it plays with the Magnepan MMGs that I set up for my better half - it should have enough snot to drive them, I believe.
I hope that I made a good choice; she needs a tube-free system so I'm thinking Harman Kardon for power, Harman Kardon, NAD or a modified Carver C1 for the preamp, Carver TX-11a for the tuner and Oppo 83SE for the CD and Blue Ray with MMGs/DMW/SVS sub for the speakers.
A mix of old and new.
P.S.
I looked long and hard at that PA2200 but Magnepans really seem to enjoy a lot of power. I still might get one for the DMW, though.

eclein · « **Reply #11 on:** 8 Sep 2011, 10:20 pm »

Steve do you have a link you can supply...I want to see what they have during the time period your buying from??

SteveFord · « **Reply #12 on:** 8 Sep 2011, 11:43 pm »

eclein,
Are you asking just about the HK amps? If so, late 80s-early 90s.
There's no real HK site that I can find although one person did go to the trouble of collecting all of the Citation schematics.
There's a PA2200 on the Audiogon link below for $139 which I was itching to get but I can only swing one power amp at the moment. Magnepans can really suck up the juice which is why I went with the Citation 22.
More Power!

http://cgis.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/srch_fs.pl?searchstring=harman+kardon

I've been really happy with every HK product I've ever had so far.

timind · « **Reply #13 on:** 9 Sep 2011, 01:44 am »

Congrats on finding your amp. Do let us know how it works for you. The Citation 22 should provide plenty of current to the MMGs.
Recommend you take a close look at the filter caps on the amp as they are nearing the end of there specified life. Not to say they won't last twice as long as expected, they probably will, but it's worth a look.

SteveFord · « **Reply #14 on:** 9 Sep 2011, 01:58 am »

Thanks!
I'm pretty excited about getting it. It's funny the things grown men find exciting. My wife has the opposite reaction - go figure.
I'll be sure to pop the top and take a look for any suspicious bulges when it shows. That would be a good time to take a picture or two as well and I will give a report on the old thing. Hopefully, it will be a positive review.

I'm not 100% sure what I'll go with for a preamp but BillD over on thecarversite is supposedly doing great things with the Carver C-1 so if people could please keep their eyes open for an inexpensive donor that would be greatly appreciated.
This whole system is a semi-surprise gift for my wife. She knows that I'm doing it but she's not aware of any of the particulars.
I want her to have something that's hers and sounds really nice, too.

Found the preamp!

timind · « **Reply #15 on:** 9 Sep 2011, 10:50 am »

Quote from: SteveFord on 9 Sep 2011, 01:58 am

Found the preamp!

OK. is it the Carver?
I've never owned a Carver piece but remember lusting after them in the 80s.

SteveFord · « **Reply #16 on:** 9 Sep 2011, 04:10 pm »

Yep, it would be the Carver C-1.

There's a BillD-modified one out on a roadshow and everyone who's heard it has raved about it. I'm on the list but it'll probably be another 4-6 weeks before I'll see it.

The gentleman I'm getting the amp from said that the SS Citation preamps were okay but nothing really extraordinary other than the stuff matches.

After digesting that bit of news I asked BillD if he could compare his modified C-1 to something that I'd be familiar with and he said that he couldn't as so long as you have the tone defeat in and aren't using the Sonic Holography it's like it's not even there.

I've known Bill for quite some. He's a very nice guy who has been in the hobby for many moons (he's retired, lucky him) and is more than just a little capable, too, so I told him to let 'er rip!

One nice thing about this gift is I can enjoy planning it, putting it together and then I get to listen to it, too!

Making up my own interconnects is the next step...

SteveFord · « **Reply #17 on:** 18 Sep 2011, 12:17 am »

Good steer to the HK Citation amps - the Citation 22 showed up today and I'm very pleased with it: lots of power, LEDs all work, cool running and it's has a very smooth sound quality to it.
Some of the solid state stuff can be kind of "edgy" but not this piece. It's sounds just right to me.
As an added bonus, it was inexpensive: $222 plus freight.
Here's some crappy pics some bonehead (me) took with the wrong lens setting.

timind · « **Reply #18 on:** 18 Sep 2011, 01:22 am »

That thing must weigh a ton with the two transformers. Ok, some better pics are in order there.
Has the Carver arrived yet?

Here are a few pics of my PA2200 after I added the Cardas binding posts wired up with DH labs T-14 cable.

I like the simple design and all discrete components. If I ever get a decent preamp I may just use this as my main amp as I enjoy it that much. The audio jewelry I've been chasing has less appeal as I get older.

timind · « **Reply #19 on:** 18 Sep 2011, 01:24 am »

Any consideration to recapping the Citation?