[Jay S]

I'm planning on buying a plasma TV in the next few months. There is no HD TV in Hong Kong. My planned sources will be regular cable TV and an Alex Peychev-modded Pioneer 563A, which outputs video at 480p via component video (no DVI or HDMI port).  

My question is, is there any benefit to getting a HD plasma?  Should I stick with a standard definition plasma since its native resolution (852x480) exactly matches the number of lines in a dvd signal, e.g. no need for scaling.  

Thanks!

- Jay

[zybar]

I have the 852x480 Panny 42" plasma and I didn't think there was a big enough difference in the picture between this and the HD version to warrant a few thousand extra in cost.

To put things in perspective...I am the type that would have done it if there was a bigger difference - this wasn't just me trying to save a few bucks (although who doesn't like to save a few bucks?).

Do you have a chance to see an HD and non-HD side by side?  This was you can see for yourself if the difference is worth it.

George

[PhilNYC]

I agree with Zybar...I also have the 852x480 Panny 42" plasma, and I didn't see a worthwhile improvement vs. the HD version.  For 50" or more, it might be worth the improvement for HD.  For DVD, the 852x480 should be good enough...

I know you mentioned that there is no HD in Hong Kong now, but that might change in the future, right?  The other consideration is that some camcorder companies are starting to come out with HD camcorders (JVC just introduced their first consumer HD camcorder last fall, so you may see some benefits if you think you might go that way.  Regular DV on my plasma doesn't look as sharp as you'd think it would...

[PeteHK]

Hi Jay,

Regarding HD in HK, according to a friend with i-Cable, there'll be no HD cable before 2006 (at the earliest!). However, I would suggest getting a higher-resolution display than 852x480 for a number of reasons:

1) Screen door - depending on your viewing distance, this can be a problem with low-resolution displays. I've seen a number of 852x480 displays (at Fortress and elsewhere) and am always bothered by the visible pixel structure.

2) Despite the long wait for cable HD, there are other HD sources available already, or likely to be available in HK over the next few months.
i) China has launched its own HD standard, and there are about 100 titles available (not confirmed). Its called EVD (a 'Google' search will turn up loads of info) and standalone players are already available for about HK$2,500. I suspect we'll see the usual bootleg versions of US HD movies in the malls of Mongkok shortly!
ii) Microsoft's HD (WM9) is open source, meaning that content providers can use it to offer HD on standard DVD discs. 'Coral Reef Adventure', 'Terminator 2' and a number of other titles are currently being offered, with the promise of more to come. The software is currently only playable via computer, but a number of manufacturers have announced DVD players with built-in WM9 playback capability.
iii) D-VHS (HD tapes) is already available, but the software is limited and expensive.
iv) Blu-ray is in the pipeline and I recall reading that Sony has announced HD software by the end of 2005.
v) HK uses the PAL standard (576 horizontal lines) for regular TV, so you will be losing detail using a 852x480 display (local DVDs are also PAL).

3) Interpolation/scaling of a low res to a hi res signal (analagous to audio upsampling) results in a smoother picture, and can result in more perceived detail. (This is a simplification, I know, and subject to the proviso of having a top-quality scaler) I'll post a link to some testing, if you want more info on this.

I would always recommend going for a higher resolution display over a lower one (all other factors being equal - contrast, black levels, colour uniformity, internal scaling, inputs, etc.) You will, however, obviously pay more.

I know your interested in a plasma, but have you thought about a projector? I know they are a bit difficult to set up in HK apartments, but I don't think you can beat them for a real movie experience. I've got 2 projectors that I'm setting up in our new apartment (including a 1365x1024 Lcos unit). If you'd like to see some HD on an eight-feet wide screen, let me know. I'll be using a pull-down screen, with a plasma/lcd mounted behind for regular TV watching. I'll be using a computer as a source for all outputs (TV scaled in the PC using H3D, internal DVD player, etc) and distributing the signal throughout the apartment to LCDs, in addition to the projector.

If you want some suggestions about where to buy/what model plasma to go for, I know a couple of places and am a regular on the local HK AV board. Those guys have their ears to the ground and know what's going on in HK.

One other thing to bear in mind if you're looking at plasmas is that set-ups in shops are frequently misleading. HK shop owners often deliberatly adjust the settings of some sets to make consumers favour one model over another (which has higher margins), or use different settings (interlaced vs progressive, composite vs component). If you want to buy a set, after you've narrowed down the choices, bring a copy of Avia with you and do a quick calibration (only takes a couple of minutes), then you'll get a better idea of what the pictures should look like.

Good luck with your search.

Regards,

Peter

[Jay S]

Peter,

This is very helpful!  I think the killer arguement for me in favor of an HD plasma is that regular TV (in HK) will look better.  My wife watches a lot of tv (and me increasingly so).  We don't watch dvds all that often - maybe a couple of times a month!  Also, we will be hooking up the laptop to the plasma to show digital pics, and HD would certainly be better I imagine.  

I'd be looking at a 42" plasma - 50" is too expensive and my viewing distance would only be about 8-9 feet from the screen.  A projector would be a cheaper alternative but I don't have the space to get a truly huge screen size and it would be a drawback that we would have to turn on the stereo system to hear TV sound -- my tube preamp has an automatic mute upon being turned on that takes 90 seconds to clear.  

As for brands of plasma, I have heard very good things about Pioneer and Hitachi, but that Panasonic is tops when it comes to true black.  My living room, by the way, is rather dim, even during day time, so ultimate brightness may not be a top consideration.  I've heard that JVC is about on par with Panasonic.  If you have specific advice on different brands/models, where to buy, how much of  a discount to expect, or can point me to where to do research on models available in HK, I'd appreciate it.  

Thanks a lot!

- Jay

P.S. Sounds like you've got a killer set up at your flat!  That is neat that you have a PC that distributes signal to all the TVs in your flat.  At our place, we have 2 TVs -- a Sony Wega in the living room (to be replaced by the plasma) and a Sharp 20" LCD in the master bedroom.

[PeteHK]

Hi Jay,

For general research on plasma TVs, I think AVS Forums is a good place to start. The Panasonics are very popular there and there are many discussions about the various models. To be honest, I don't have much experience with plasmas, so my knowledge is mostly second hand. Here's a Panasonic ED vs HD thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=394930

Once you've narrowed down your choices, I would head over to AV Buzz.
http://www.avbuzz.com/bbs/av/list.php?start=0
Its a HK site, with lots of local knowledge. Many of the posts are Chinese-language only, but I've found the guys there to be more than helpful (and friendly! - is this really HK?!) and happy to post replies in English. Try posting a message there - ask for a model recommendation, seller and price. I'm sure you'll get a few useful replies (they always seem to know where to get good deals, as many of them are in the business).

I know it goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway: At the end of the day, when it comes to buying, recommendations are only useful as a starting point - you have to see for yourself. However, do bear it in mind that shop-owners (either out of lack of product knowledge or in a deliberate attempt to mislead) will try to bias your decision. Its pretty hard to find an honest retailer here! My 'golden' rule is never to accept anything salespeople say here. Know what you want beforehand, or make sure you can test thoroughly before buying. To most retailers, the only thing that matters is the price - this is HK, everything is negotiable - even in department stores!

When you find what you want, haggle hard! Its expected, and don't be put off by feigned indignation when you low-ball them. Its a volume game for them and margins are tight, but never pay sticker price.

If you want to have a look at some plasmas, take the MTR up to Mongkok. There are a couple of buildings there which are stacked full of AV shops. Demo conditions are usually dreadful, but you'll get a feel for prices and will probably see every model sold in HK. To get to the first one, take Exit E2 at Mongkok (Bank exit) and its about the second building on your left as you come out (there's a Korean restaurant on the 3rd floor). The other building is at the end of Sat Yung Choi (sp?) Street (number 2?). Coming out of Exit E2, take a right and its the second from last building at the end of the road. (Sorry, I don't have the exact address, but you can't miss it.) There are lots of AV shops in this area, so have a wander around - you never know what you might find!

I don't know when is a good time to buy a plasma. New HDMI models will be out soon, so prices may drop ... I've seen a fairly steep decline recent - especially for older 42-inch sets. LCD sets also seem to be stealing some of plasma's appeal in HK.

Be sure to check the warranty situation when you buy. There are a lot of grey goods being sold, and you'll often be quoted 2 prices - one with a HK warranty and one without. Not a problem at Fortress or Broadway, but a bit tricky in the wilds of Mongkok.

Be sure to check the fan noise of the plasma. Some of them sound like mini-airconditioners!

One more thing to check - connectivity. If you're using a laptop, VGA connectors on the plasma should not be a problem. DVI would be better (avoids AD->DA conversion), but not many plasmas (or laptops) have it. If you're using VGA, download Powerstrip. Its a useful utility that allows you to match the output from your notebook to the native resolution of your display (thereby bypassing the plasma's (usually low quality) scaler). Its a moot point for digital photos, but very noticeable for full-motion video.

Sorry I can't give you any more specific advice about individual plasma models, but I don't think you can go too far wrong with the 7th generation Panasonics. I'll probably buy a 50' plasma in a couple of months' time, so I'd be interested to hear how your search turns out. The Fujitsu P50 is top of my list at the moment ... after the car, the subs, the list goes on ...

Cheers,

Pete

[mlmc]

If i got an Xbox and i want to play games in a higher resolution, will 852x480 do or do I have to get a HD TV?

[PeteHK]

 
If i got an Xbox and i want to play games in a higher resolution, will 852x480 do or do I have to get a HD TV?

Hi mlmc,

If your Xbox game is encoded at a resolution higher than the native resolution of your display, then the display's internal scaler will simply 'down-res' the signal and display it at the display's resolution. i.e., if you output 720p from the Xbox to a 852x480 display, the image will be displayed fine, but the resolution will (obviously) be limited to 852x480.

Provided your internal scaler (in your plasma) is reasonable, you should not notice any difference between the quality of a 480 or 720 line encoded game from your Xbox when using a 852x480 display.

The advantage of having a higher resolution display would be its ability to show fine detail on your hi-res sources (i.e., above 480p), in addition to less screen-door effect.

Regards,

Peter