[jjay]

If you want midbass thump, you shouldn't be buying MMG/s (or any Magnepan for that matter

Hi Jeff,
Since you have reviewed the JL Audio Subs with Magnepans, would you agree you can get the best of both worlds using the JL Fathoms? I know my JL Audio F110 & f112 subs can get quite a good midbass thump while blending perfectly IMHO.  I crossover with the Magnepan 1.7 around 65 hz. and crossover with my ML Vantages at 40 hz. and it doesn't sound bloated in the least.
Jim

[Rclark]

I understand there will be some sort of compromise but I will do my best to make it work. I could even try a HSU midbass module.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Jjay, the 3.7's go down to 35Hz and the 1.7's 40Hz.  They will probably go lower once they break in and depending upon speaker placement.  Even Magnepan says that they can go lower than their published specs.  I can guarantee that my 1.6's go lower than 40hz.

By the way, has any one tried a Rhythmik Sub with Maggies?

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/products.html

I can't decide if I want to give one of these a try or just buy a Martin Logan Grotto.  I need to replace my ancient Velodyne sub and I do not want to drop a ton of money on  velodyne servo sub or REL.

[AUDFILE74]

HEY  i.GREYhound, I want to hear that combo, i think the rythmik would be awesome

[TONEPUB]

Hi Jeff,
Since you have reviewed the JL Audio Subs with Magnepans, would you agree you can get the best of both worlds using the JL Fathoms? I know my JL Audio F110 & f112 subs can get quite a good midbass thump while blending perfectly IMHO.  I crossover with the Magnepan 1.7 around 65 hz. and crossover with my ML Vantages at 40 hz. and it doesn't sound bloated in the least.
Jim

Well, I certainly like the combination, but it always depends on your setup, room and preference.  I've got the Gotham crossed over at about 45hz and that's working the best in my room.  I will be reviewing the new REL G series sub, so we'll give that a try too!  With subs, there's never really a magic formula.

[jtwrace]

Well, I certainly like the combination, but it always depends on your setup, room and preference.  I've got the Gotham crossed over at about 45hz and that's working the best in my room.  I will be reviewing the new REL G series sub, so we'll give that a try too!  With subs, there's never really a magic formula.

I'd love to see the measurments of your system.

[rw@cn]

Well, I certainly like the combination, but it always depends on your setup, room and preference.  I've got the Gotham crossed over at about 45hz and that's working the best in my room.  I will be reviewing the new REL G series sub, so we'll give that a try too!  With subs, there's never really a magic formula.

Jeff,

Would you please address the placement trial and error, as you know, REL states that their speakers should be placed in corners. I am looking at something in the R series, ML's Depth or TBI's VIII (not powered). I know that you had a very brief review of the Grotto which is not very high on my list. The main thing I want is that the sub should blend seamlessly with the speakers.

Bob

[TheChairGuy]

Former MMG owner here - despite full top and bottom Mye Stands and top-notch outboard X-over ($1000 of work on a $550 speaker)....I never loved them.

Maybe it was lack of space for me as I put them up at an audiophile friends place who bought them and they sounded better - much. Still I was happy to get rid of them and much prefer the Linaeum Towers for the past 5 years.

That said an audio buddy who has a great system at hand bought the 1.7's recently. I heard his prior set ups with MUCH more costly Gradient and KEF speakers previously...and I've never heard his system sounding so good.

The 1.7's are a world away better than any 1.6 I've ever heard or my old tricked out MMG's. There is simply little to criticize on these guys for $2K (or $2600 with the full Mye stands my buddy uses them with)

It doesn't have quite the delicate reality and airiness that the very best tweeters have...but I suspect the real ribbons on the 3.7 rectify that matter nicely. I've always heard the benefit of the 3.6 over the 1.6 tweeters in the past.

I'm kinda' anxious to hear 3.7's as my taste of the 1.7 yesterday was REALLY impressive 

[TONEPUB]

Jeff,

Would you please address the placement trial and error, as you know, REL states that their speakers should be placed in corners. I am looking at something in the R series, ML's Depth or TBI's VIII (not powered). I know that you had a very brief review of the Grotto which is not very high on my list. The main thing I want is that the sub should blend seamlessly with the speakers.

Bob

Hi Bob,

I've used the Magnepans with the Depth i, Descent i and Grotto i.  I like the Grotto because it's easier to experiment with placement and at about $1200, keeps with the price of the 1.7's pretty well.  I use the Gotham because I just happen to have one, but it does mate with the 1.7's (and my 1.6's) well.   Oddly enough with the Gotham, the best placement was behind the couch facing back behind me.

I did it all trial and error, running the JL room correction every time.

One of the things I learned from the people at REL a long time ago was to let the mains run full range and let the sub only work on the deepest bass frequencies.  And when they were here doing the setup, they mentioned to give the sub a bit more gain, but cross it over a little lower than you might normally, which also worked great in my room.  This happens to work especially well with panels.

You are probably never going to get a perfect match with the Magnepans and a sub (or any panel for that matter) but you can get it darn close with a little experimentation, and if you have the time and patience a bit of measurements.  It will all come down to personal taste, I can live with the small inadequacies in return for the extra extension.   It will all depend on your gear, your room and your taste.

Let us know how it works out!

[rw@cn]

Thanks Jeff.

[josh358]

I'm still a week away from buying MMG's and I'm struggling to wrap my head around... how DOES a planar make bass?

Sure? You've got "all that surface area", but there's no X-max! How can you possibly get any bass out of a panel that barely moves?

 From what I understand, especially after the Magnestand mod, there's "lots" of bass, but I just can't comprehend how it's even possible to get any bass, even 200hz, from a flat panel.

Well, as you say, they have lots of area. Plus it isn't true that they don't have any x max or barely move. By the time you figure in all that surface area, they can move a lot of air. The main limitation on planar bass slam isn't the air they move, but the fact that they have to move a lot more of it than a closed baffle speaker. That's because the out-of-phase waves from the rear come around the front and roll the bass off at 6 dB/octave. So the drivers themselves have to be engineered with a rising low frequency response. The bass output of some Maggies at their fundamental bass resonance, measured near the diaphragm, is +20 dB! That's a lot of bass.

The large the baffle size of a planar, the deeper and/or louder the bass. The old Tympanis, with their huge baffles and large surface area, could produce bass that rivaled (though it didn't quite equal) dynamics in extension and punch. And it was much more realistic than what you hear from cones. A totally winning combination, IMO.

[jjay]

Hi Jeff,
Since you have reviewed the JL Audio Subs with Magnepans, would you agree you can get the best of both worlds using the JL Fathoms? I know my JL Audio F110 & f112 subs can get quite a good midbass thump while blending perfectly IMHO.  I crossover with the Magnepan 1.7 around 65 hz. and crossover with my ML Vantages at 40 hz. and it doesn't sound bloated in the least.
Jim


Well, I certainly like the combination, but it always depends on your setup, room and preference.  I've got the Gotham crossed over at about 45hz and that's working the best in my room.  I will be reviewing the new REL G series sub, so we'll give that a try too!  With subs, there's never really a magic formula.

From what I read from speaker reviews, most critics prefer Magnepan's without a subwoofer. I just find the sound too thin without a subwoofer and prefer that extra low end the JL Audio subs provide. I would rather have that extra low end than slight difference of  speaker coherency by mixing a planar speaker with a cone subwoofer. I like the transparency of a panel but the impact (slam) of the JL sub. JMHO
Jim

[Socrates7]

Jjay, the 3.7's go down to 35Hz and the 1.7's 40Hz.  They will probably go lower once they break in and depending upon speaker placement.  Even Magnepan says that they can go lower than their published specs.  I can guarantee that my 1.6's go lower than 40hz.

By the way, has any one tried a Rhythmik Sub with Maggies?

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/products.html

I can't decide if I want to give one of these a try or just buy a Martin Logan Grotto.  I need to replace my ancient Velodyne sub and I do not want to drop a ton of money on  velodyne servo sub or REL.

I have a pair of Rythmik F12Gs supporting the low freq for my Magnepan 3.7s. 14Hz to ~35Hz only. The 3.7s do bass and mid bass pretty well, but the subs just add the super-creepy deep room thrum when needed. Handoff is smooth (but probably could be smoother) but the bass is not invasive or overwhelming -- it's just devastating when I need it to be devastating.

In short, love the combo.

FWIW, I was told that the paper drivers were the ones to get with the Rythmiks. Speed, SQ, and naturalness were "best" (at least according to Bobby Palkovich, who originally recommended them to me for use with his Merlin speakers).

I was briefly flirting with the idea of getting a external Marchand (or Bryston or Pass) crossover to cut the Maggies off at 80Hz and bring all that to the subs. Decided against it -- these Maggies are a lot stronger "down there" than the others in the lineup, including the 20.1, IMO. May not be as deep, but what's there is a lot punchier. In fact, I find that I don't really need a sub -- I just like them anyway.

[jjay]

I can't decide if I want to give one of these a try or just buy a Martin Logan Grotto.  I need to replace my ancient Velodyne sub and I do not want to drop a ton of money on  velodyne servo sub or REL.

I used a ML Grotto for a few yrs and have had a JL F110 for about a yr. IMO, the Grotto doesn't compare with the JL f110. You can get a JL Audio F110 for about $1200.00 used. The JL f110 is just alot smoother and integrates with Magnepan really great. The REL's I have heard sound great too. Again, JMHO
Jim

[Chuckdog2005]

I'm using the 1.7's in a moderate sized room without a sub. I wouldn't pre-suppose the need for a sub until you've listened a while. With a quality source the 1.7's work well for me. The 3.7's that I auditioned were of course slightly more impressive in the lower registries, but simply not enough difference to justify their extra size and cost for my application. I've been quite pleased with what's obtainable from the 1.7's on their own. CD

[SteveFord]

For what it's worth, I brought the DMW downstairs and went back to using a small NHT "sub" (more of an 8" woofer, actually) with the 1.7s.
The 1.7s are in a converted attic so the room is shaped oddly and the little NHT really helps to round off the bottom end.  I'm sure that the bass doesn't go any deeper.