[bhobba]

Hi Guys

My Burson HD-160 has arrived and I had a quick listen with another guy. First up was with the Off-Ramp. Very good - just a touch of warmth to my ears compared to the Burson HA-160D. But it was thought a lot of the performance was from the Off-Ramp so we tried it via its USB. Surprise surprise - it was actually better which left both of us scratching out heads. So we went back to using the Off-Ramp but this time with no upsampling. Yes it was better than upsampled - but we didn't have time to check if it was better than USB. I now have it in my system and will give further impressions as my listening progresses.

Clarification added later - we only were able to play two tracks - on one track the Offramp was obviously better on the other the bass was not as good but it was thought that was due to upsampling.

Thanks
Bill

[DavidS]

this is a much anticipated new dac - I look forward to reading about your listening particularly in comparison to the numerous other dacs you have at hand. 

[TJHUB]

I'm also very interested in your comments on this DAC.  I hope you'll give some good detail on the sound once it settles in.

[Dracule1]

bhobba, I PM'd you a week ago about the AQVOX linear USB power supply.  It's affordable and made a hell of a difference on my Tranquility Signature DAC.  Try it on the Burson or any USB DAC and see what a nice difference it makes.

[adhesiv]

for such a hyped up piece of equipment i've seen virtually no information from any owners about it...I'm very interested in this piece but why is there so little usage experience being shared?

[roscoeiii]

Perhaps because it has only just just been released?

[bhobba]

Hi Guys

Good and bad news. First the bad news - the USB input has packed it in - only the left channel is working - SPDIF still works fine. I took it to the dealer I got it from who verified it and immediately sent an Email to Burson. Now what I want to do is keep it until they send a replacement and use it via SPDIF - to that end I have it in my system right now running off the Off-Ramp. My dealer however thinks they will want it sent to them to fix in their own sweet time. Reviewers generally get the royal treatment so its often hard to know from their reviews exactly how your average yobbo like me will be treated - so this will be a good test IMHO.

Ok the sound through the SPDIF and Offramp direct connected to my Patek amp using Pure Music. Well from my recollection of how the USB sounded for the short time it did work I think it is better despite the initial impression the USB may have had the edge. Certainly the slight 'warmth' I detected is absent. This thing has the slight metallic-steely twang I associate with SS - you know its SS for sure. No valve warmth here. This is rather interesting as my short time with the HA-160D showed a significant amount of warmth to my ears. When I played it initially on another system via USB I could detect a slight trace of warmth. Now on my system using the Off-Ramp - its gone - at least to my ears anyway. Burson are SS specialists and claim they designed this as the quintessential SS output stage design. Guess what - to me that's exactly how it sounds. Not SS apeing valves but SS pure and simple. This is direct connected to my amp. I will give it a go through the Truth pre amp a bit later.

I have done a direct comparison to the JK Saber. Both bass and detail seem better but it does not seem to be as in control somehow - it does not seem to flow as easily - sort of more in your face. Right now I would have to call it pretty close overall. I am not however going to say anything definite because I do not know how much the Off-Ramp is lifting performance. However purely because I do not like leaving things up in the air I will give the JK the edge but reserve my final opinion until later.

More to come later as I listen more and others get a chance for others to have to have a listen and see what they think.

Thanks
Bill

[MttBsh]

I'm wondering if giving the DA160 some proper burn-in might make a big difference, as I read the following comment about the Burson 160D:

"I've been listening to the Burson 160D for the past couple of weeks, and I'm liking it more and more. This, more than any piece of gear I've ever had, really needs to be fully broken in before you evaluate it. When I first turned it on, it was crispy and thin--pretty unpleasant sounding. Lots of detail and information, but quite aggressive. The change in sound really didn't kick in until I hit the 100-hour mark (which I just passed), and I've never heard a more dramatic change in any piece of gear. It's a whole different beast now. It kept the detail it was giving me, but now the sound if fleshed out, fluid, and full-bodied. Amazingly deep and controlled bass that doesn't get in the way of the upper frequencies or the definition or timbre of the instruments and voices. And it sorts out parts and musical lines better than anything I've had. The music flows. I have a feeling it will continue to improve, too, which really makes me happy."

bhobba - I'll be interested in finding out if the same kinds of improvements occur when your DA160 hits the 100hr mark - and I hope it won't have to be sent back to Burson to have the USB input repaired

I appreciate all the time, money and effort you put into reviewing these DACs, and I value your observations, thank you

Matt

[bhobba]

I appreciate all the time, money and effort you put into reviewing these DACs, and I value your observations, thank you

Hi Matt

Thanks mate - I am retired now and do this for a bit of fun.

I have now connected it to the Truth and the SS sound has been toned down a touch to my ears and I think it sounds better - but of course its probably a personal preference thing. After posting this will sojourn to my listening room for some further listening/investigations.

Burson got back to my dealer saying it cant be the USB you must be doing something wrong. He is going to pass the Email onto me and I will probably have to go through their hoops before they acknowledge there is a fault. As I said its will be interesting to see how your typical yobbo gets treated.

I have a DAC shoot-out on the 20th and rest assured the Burson will be here for that.  Afterwards I may have to send it to them for repairs - although my preferred option is for them to replace it with a new one.

Thanks
Bill

[JohnR]

If it's brand new, the dealer should simply replace it with another. I thought that was the law.

[adhesiv]

Perhaps because it has only just just been released?

Yes I realize that, but with the an ad for it posted to Audiogon almost daily by sellers over the last month or so i imagine a few folks out there other than Bill have one and seems there should be more people talking about it. Just an opinion...

[R-A-W]

Bill,
Is the Offramp burned in?

Roger

[bhobba]

Is the Offramp burned in

Its brand new but still performs excellently.

Thanks
Bill

[R-A-W]

Could get better after some runtime.
The result (sofar ..) of the Burson Offramp combo surprises me.
I would expect the Offramp to lift the performance compared to internal usb of the Burson.
Did the PDX have a spdif input? And if yes did you try it with the Offramp?
I'll be looking forward to the further outcome.

Roger

[bhobba]

If it's brand new, the dealer should simply replace it with another. I thought that was the law.

The law is (from examples in a Queensland Government website):
'Because the product is faulty, it has failed to meet the 'consumer guarantee'. Tim is entitled to his choice of a refund, replacement or repair. Tim did the right thing by immediately contacting the store and asking for a replacement'

But what is the dealer to do - they have no replacement stock - they are entirely at the mercy of Burson who are simply burying their head in the sand and saying nothing can be wrong with it.  I will have to jump through their hoops to prove it is faulty. I have no doubt at the end of the day they will have to replace it, its simply a matter of keeping at them.  Of course you should not have to do that - both myself and the dealer verified it was faulty - both of us can not be making the same error.  Simply file this away as a factor in if you want to buy this DAC.

Thanks
Bill

[bhobba]

Could get better after some runtime. The result (sofar ..) of the Burson Offramp combo surprises me. I would expect the Offramp to lift the performance compared to internal usb of the Burson. Did the PDX have a spdif input? And if yes did you try it with the Offramp? I'll be looking forward to the further outcome.

I think the Offramp lifted the performance of the Burson quite a bit - the initial listen we did while the USB actually worked showed on one track the bass was not as good when upsampled.  We tried it not upsampled and it improved.  But before we could compare it to the USB it went bung.

The PDX is available with SPDIF but everyone is now ordering it with the USB or I2S so a SPDIF version was not available.  The PDX is available with one input and one input only because the maker has determined having a switch degrades performance.  However they are working on a version with two input options and I have ordered one of those - but my inputs will be USB and I2S - not SPDIF.

Thanks
Bill

[bhobba]

I have been doing some more listening.  I have been comparing it to the base Tranquility and John Kenny Saber because they are about the same price.  I found even with the Offramp it to my ears did not sound as good as the the Tranquility or JK.  Bear in mind however the Burson has more inputs than just USB and like the JK allows direct connection to an amp.  The Burson, as mentioned previously, has a definite SS feel to it and it certainly flowed in a very natural way if that type of sound is your bag.  However surprisingly the Tranquility had even better detail and a very analogue sound.  The bass is the usual achilles heel with the Tranquility but I couldn't detect it was worse than the Burson.  The JK had a dry sound but better bass and detail than either.  My speakers are anything but dry and the JK sounded quite good with them - but on some dry speakers an acquaintance borrowed to check it out the dryness added up and it sounded not good at all.  But in my setup I would have to give the JK the edge over the other DAC's.  Another person complained the JK distorted instruments but I couldn't detect that.  On my favorite test track - Dianna Krall - A Case Of You - the piano sounded natural to me on all three DAC's.

I have a friend coming Friday who has a good ear and we will redo the comparison.

I am also having a DAC shootout Saturday week and will see how it fares in that.

Thanks
Bill

[bhobba]

I'm wondering if giving the DA160 some proper burn-in might make a big difference, as I read the following comment about the Burson 160D:

It probably will improve.  But I don't think that is reason not to post my impressions - rather for people that read them to take them as provisional until a significant amount of burn in has occurred.

Thanks
Bill

[JohnR]

But what is the dealer to do - they have no replacement stock - they are entirely at the mercy of Burson who are simply burying their head in the sand and saying nothing can be wrong with it.

The dealer should give you a refund. It shouldn't be your problem.

Anyway...

[MttBsh]

The dealer should give you a refund. It shouldn't be your problem.

Anyway...

As bhobba stated, how Burson responds to this problem should be a deciding factor in whether or not to purchase their products, regardless of how good they may be. You know they would immediately replace a 6 Moons reviewer's unit under the same circumstances... I wonder if they have any idea how many "yobbo's" in the market for a DAC are reading bhobba's thread and are seeing how they'll be treated if they receive a defective unit....