Do all Bryston amplifiers sound the same?

sweetspot · « **on:** 8 Aug 2011, 07:15 pm »

James,A while ago you said that the 4b had the same performance as the 2b(except for the power rating).Would this same comparison carry through to the 28b,since you also said there is no better or best Bryston amps? Just curious!

James Tanner · « **Reply #1 on:** 8 Aug 2011, 07:20 pm »

Quote from: sweetspot on 8 Aug 2011, 07:15 pm

James,A while ago you said that the 4b had the same performance as the 2b(except for the power rating).Would this same comparison carry through to the 28b,since you also said there is no better or best Bryston amps? Just curious!

Correct.

That being said there will always be those that feel Bryston amp A sounds better than Bryston amp B but I think that has a lot to do with the specific system and other interfacing gear. For instance I have never heard the 28B sound bad on any speaker I have tried it on - but I think it is because it is just such a beast it does not give a hoot about what kind of speaker load it "see's"

james

sweetspot · « **Reply #2 on:** 8 Aug 2011, 07:30 pm »

Thank You,James. The reason I asked was because I was considering upgrading my NAD power/pre to Bryston to drive my PSB Gold speakers(4ohm),but I didn't want to get into overkill! My room is not large & I listen at low to moderate levels. I am impressed with the "first to last watt" design.

mr_bill · « **Reply #3 on:** 8 Aug 2011, 09:28 pm »

James,
I'm seeing a new marketing campaign for the Bryston amps....................good to the last watt............like Folgers coffee - good to the last drop.

ian.ameline · « **Reply #4 on:** 8 Aug 2011, 09:35 pm »

Quote from: sweetspot on 8 Aug 2011, 07:30 pm

Thank You,James. The reason I asked was because I was considering upgrading my NAD power/pre to Bryston to drive my PSB Gold speakers(4ohm),but I didn't want to get into overkill! My room is not large & I listen at low to moderate levels. I am impressed with the "first to last watt" design.

I have PSB Stratus Gold i speakers and use a 4B SST2 to drive them -- sounds great -- it's truly at ear bleeding sound pressure levels on tracks with a really thumping bass line before the leds on the bryston start to blink red.

Those speakers have a recommended 250 watts per side, and the 4B pushes out well over 400 into 4 ohms.

sweetspot · « **Reply #5 on:** 8 Aug 2011, 09:51 pm »

Quote from: ian.ameline on 8 Aug 2011, 09:35 pm

I have PSB Stratus Gold i speakers and use a 4B SST2 to drive them -- sounds great -- it's truly at ear bleeding sound pressure levels on tracks with a really thumping bass line before the leds on the bryston start to blink red.

Those speakers have a recommended 250 watts per side, and the 4B pushes out well over 400 into 4 ohms.

That was the amp I was considering along with the BP-6 pre.You must have it cranked to get those led's flashing!

sfraser · « **Reply #6 on:** 8 Aug 2011, 11:05 pm »

Quote from: sweetspot on 8 Aug 2011, 09:51 pm

That was the amp I was considering along with the BP-6 pre.You must have it cranked to get those led's flashing!

I have th goldi's as well, powered via an older 4b. Works & sounds good.

vegasdave · « **Reply #7 on:** 8 Aug 2011, 11:20 pm »

Quote from: sweetspot on 8 Aug 2011, 09:51 pm

That was the amp I was considering along with the BP-6 pre.You must have it cranked to get those led's flashing!

I have to crank my BP6/4BSST combo pretty much all the way in order to go into clipping.

Ron D · « **Reply #8 on:** 8 Aug 2011, 11:23 pm »

here's my opinion...

I believe that amps from the same generation sound "the same" and I believe the general consensus :shh:is that each generation has been better than the prior one and possibly significantly better than 2 generations prior. And as I have owned pretty much all of them over the years I speak from experience, albeit my personal experience.

However I did find some inherent benefits within the same generations - I found my 14B-SST offered up more detail at lower volumes than my 4B-SST did. I was hearing things with the larger amp that I didn't hear with the smaller powered amp. So I am a believer in having more than just enough power.

So if you feel the 4B-SST2 is the amp that will generate enough juice for you and there appear to be others here that concur it might fit the bill very nicely. I would also offer up that a late model 14B-SST (non-squared) with tons of warranty left on her might be another option. Not sure how the price points differ and maybe the 14B might be over your budget, only you know how deep your pockets are but IMHO its an avenue worth exploring.

sweetspot · « **Reply #9 on:** 8 Aug 2011, 11:30 pm »

I haven't listened to music at ear splitting levels since I was in my twenties- & believe me ,that wasn't yesterday!!

btw,wanna cheap tweak to improve your listening enjoyment by about 50 %-get your ears flushed by your doctor once a year-unbelievable improvement!!!

vegasdave · « **Reply #10 on:** 8 Aug 2011, 11:32 pm »

Sure, but both amps need to be compared first.

Elizabeth · « **Reply #11 on:** 8 Aug 2011, 11:34 pm »

One point missed in this discussion is the "biased to 5% total watts is in class"A" per James in a previous post.
So certainly the bigger the amp, the more watts are pure class"A" watts. And THAT may account for some perceived differences.
Especially in the reviews of the 28B-SST2

vegasdave · « **Reply #12 on:** 8 Aug 2011, 11:36 pm »

Quote from: Elizabeth on 8 Aug 2011, 11:34 pm

One point missed in this discussion is the "biased to 5% total watts is in class"A" per James in a previous post.
So certainly the bigger the amp, the more watts are pure class"A" watts. And THAT may account for some perceived differences.
Especially in the reviews of the 28B-SST2

James, your rebuttal?

sweetspot · « **Reply #13 on:** 8 Aug 2011, 11:47 pm »

Quote from: Ron D on 8 Aug 2011, 11:23 pm

here's my opinion...

I believe that amps from the same generation sound "the same" and I believe the general consensus :shh:is that each generation has been better than the prior one and possibly significantly better than 2 generations prior. And as I have owned pretty much all of them over the years I speak from experience, albeit my personal experience.

However I did find some inherent benefits within the same generations - I found my 14B-SST offered up more detail at lower volumes than my 4B-SST did. I was hearing things with the larger amp that I didn't hear with the smaller powered amp. So I am a believer in having more than just enough power.

So if you feel the 4B-SST2 is the amp that will generate enough juice for you and there appear to be others here that concur it might fit the bill very nicely. I would also offer up that a late model 14B-SST (non-squared) with tons of warranty left on her might be another option. Not sure how the price points differ and maybe the 14B might be over your budget, only you know how deep your pockets are but IMHO its an avenue worth exploring.

Thanks for that RonD.From what I've read on the Bryston website about the "first to last" design philosophy,my understanding is that with the "squared" amps,all the musical detail should be there even at low volume. Perhaps I'm out to lunch on this & maybe James could chime in!

sweetspot · « **Reply #14 on:** 8 Aug 2011, 11:49 pm »

Quote from: Elizabeth on 8 Aug 2011, 11:34 pm

One point missed in this discussion is the "biased to 5% total watts is in class"A" per James in a previous post.
So certainly the bigger the amp, the more watts are pure class"A" watts. And THAT may account for some perceived differences.
Especially in the reviews of the 28B-SST2

Good point, Elizabeth

HsvHeelFan · « **Reply #15 on:** 9 Aug 2011, 04:43 am »

I've got a 2001 vintage 4B-ST and it's rated at 288 watts per channel.

With my 6 ohm KEF Q-70s, it's never shown any signs of clipping and it can play a whole heck of a lot louder than I can stand.

My 4B-ST sounds identical to the 4B that I borrowed that was Thx rated. I'm not sure if it was an early 4B-ST or a late 4B.

HsvHeelFan

larevoj · « **Reply #16 on:** 9 Aug 2011, 05:20 am »

They don't sound the same - assuming sounding the same meant to say there are no difference whatsoever when you power the exact same system with 4, 7, and 28 of current models.

I have heard all three models powering the same system in the same room and they sound different. The more power you feed into the system the better the overall performance is especially when you jump from 4 to 28.

skunark · « **Reply #17 on:** 9 Aug 2011, 05:41 am »

I spent several hours comparing both the 4B SST2 and the 7B SST2 on some Thiel 2.4s at a local dealer, the only significant difference I found was the 7B just had slightly sharper bass than the 4B.

To round out the gear they had the Bryston BP26 and BCD-1, along with Richard Grays's RGPC400 power unconditioner and audio quest cables were utilized. With either the 4B or 7B I felt the system was just killer, but I'm sure with speakers with a larger frequency range, the difference would be more significant. The 4BSST2 is no slouch though, no other amp in 4.5k price range came close though.

1oldguy · « **Reply #18 on:** 9 Aug 2011, 11:54 am »

While the amps all share the same tonal bond,it really comes down to physics.
The 7B and up have the new transformer used in the Torus,which allows for power to be
stored,for a little more control when the music calls for it,or gets busy.
Then as Elizabeth pointed out that 5% of class A wattage.Well 5% of 300,600,1000 watts
respectively,will also account for some perceived difference.
Or lets think of it this way....While all the amps sound like a family,twins perhaps,and Like
James said he's never heard the 28 sound bad.That being said,if one has speakers that
are rated say 500 watts or so and I stick the smallest Bryston amp on there,it's not going to
sound it's best.Not that the amp is bad,it isn't,but it is trying to pull to much weight as it were.
At the end of the day,it's about the ability to take control of the drivers,especially the woofers.
That's what the extra wattage will give you,for my reasoning at least.

One other way of looking at it.
If there were a 100 pounds on the floor and you have 2 people.
One is small,the other big and built like a tank.Who do you think would
have an easier time lifting the weight?Or controlling it once lifted?

Yes the amps are the same sonically,But the more wattage you have,at least
with Bryston,the better chances the speaker will subservient to the power,signal,
lastly music,that is being feed to them.

Or not.

SoundGame · « **Reply #19 on:** 9 Aug 2011, 02:12 pm »

To add to the above - I would also think that in terms of control and ability to handle extremely difficult speakers - it would be better to look at the amps in terms of their stereo vs. mono architechture. In other words:

2B vs. 3B vs. 4B. vs. 14 B

AND

7B vs. 28B

The house sound will be there on all but all will have a different limitation when challenged. The 1 first to last watt in the squared series should make the differences between the amps less - as the factor of operation in their optimum power band is taken out of the equation.

Lets consider some theoretical speaker loads:

100 watts maximum, 8 ohms with 6 ohms min. & polite phase, then all Bryston amps should sound basically the same.

200 watts maximum, 8 ohms with 6 ohms min & polite phase, then the 2B should sound a little less capable with all the rest sound basically the same

Keep raising the power, lowering the nominal resistance and making the phase more agressive and the differences in the amps (primarily due to their power) will begin to surface.