[dB Cooper]

Boy does that ever take me back. I never ran a center (that requiring three identical speakers), but I ran the rear speaker. My room was ideal for this, it was longer than wide and had a high bookshelf at the rear where I parked a small bookshelf speaker. On the right source material, mainly well-recorded live stuff, it sounded pretty damn good.

Dynaco later issued a variation with two speakers at the rear, an inferior arrangement IMO that was a sop to marketing. This was how the SCA-80Q integrated amp and the Quadapter were set up.

[Phil A]

Yes - it does bring memories.  Instead of the Hafler circuit, I ran an old Koss Time Delay.  The 15WPC built-in amp sucked so I used its preamp outs to an SAE 50WPC amp.  Sounded good.  Before my current location, I lived in Southern, NJ and had a signed a contract to have a house built (which was built during 1985 and I moved in January 1986).  I had them wire for surround sound speakers and they never heard of anything so ridiculous.

[stereocilia]

Good to know, Wayner.  I should have called it a "modified Hafler" or something, but it does work.  Plus, you don't need to find a way to keep the center speaker from blocking the TV.

That is not the correct circuit for the Hafler surround sound. It is this:

 

and here is the instructions:

 

Wayner

[Wayner]

No problem, but in your circuit, I think you need more resistance between the left and right real channels (you are hooking 2 8ohm speakers in series between the left and right hot terminals). I might suggest an 8 ohm L pad in between the rears. To do this circuit, you need to have a common ground power amplifier (between the left and right channel) or you will end up with a smoldering ruin.

Wayner

[JLM]

Keep in mind that louder always sounds better (until it becomes annoyingly or painfully loud).  This is scientifically demonstrated phenomenon.

Beware if initial impressions.  Boomy bass and zingy highs can be impressive at first.  Don’t be surprised that kind of the sound becomes “too much of a good thing” and the exaggerations begin to fatigue (you need a change of venue). 

Using two sets of speakers can be like chocolate with peanut butter or it can be like honey with garlic.  Regardless you’re developing multiple points of sound with the soundwaves produced by each causing multiple interferences, so in theory it can’t be a good thing.  As stated above, in-room speaker frequency responses are seldom ideally flat to start with, so adding another set of speakers is a crap shoot.

To even out the frequency response it’s best to try matching room to speaker (big room – big speaker, different speaker designs react differently to the room), then room treatments, and finally applying equalization (which only flattens the response in a single location – wherever the microphone was).

The best way to audition speakers is:  no more than 4 pair per day (listener fatigue makes anything more pointless); use music that you’re familiar with; use a sampling that represents all your favorite sounds; take as long as you like (without distractions); if at all possible try at home where you’ll be listening.

Using two sets of speakers can overload the amp, especially if the impedance drops.

[neekomax]

Keep in mind that louder always sounds better (until it becomes annoyingly or painfully loud).  This is scientifically demonstrated phenomenon.

Beware if initial impressions.  Boomy bass and zingy highs can be impressive at first.  Don’t be surprised that kind of the sound becomes “too much of a good thing” and the exaggerations begin to fatigue (you need a change of venue). 

Using two sets of speakers can be like chocolate with peanut butter or it can be like honey with garlic.  Regardless you’re developing multiple points of sound with the soundwaves produced by each causing multiple interferences, so in theory it can’t be a good thing.  As stated above, in-room speaker frequency responses are seldom ideally flat to start with, so adding another set of speakers is a crap shoot.

To even out the frequency response it’s best to try matching room to speaker (big room – big speaker, different speaker designs react differently to the room), then room treatments, and finally applying equalization (which only flattens the response in a single location – wherever the microphone was).

The best way to audition speakers is:  no more than 4 pair per day (listener fatigue makes anything more pointless); use music that you’re familiar with; use a sampling that represents all your favorite sounds; take as long as you like (without distractions); if at all possible try at home where you’ll be listening.

Thanks for your thoughts, JLM. Two things I'm learning through this process are:

1)I have an acoustically challenging room, and that may just be what it is for now. I'm not sure I have the wherewithal to fix that.

2)I probably made a rash purchase with Def Tech speakers. There is a real gap in the low mid/ high bass (crossover point to the built-in sub?). Good news is that I got them used on the cheap, but still, I wish I had been able to listen to them in my space first. Live and learn.

The B&Ws just happen to 'fit' the frequencies that the Def Techs lack, and the B&Ws lack a bit of high end sparkle and sub bass, which the Def Techs have. I am under no illusion that I stumbled upon some sort of reference quality, flat freq response, beginner's luck miracle. Here's the thing- I keep A/B/C listening to one set alone, the other set alone, then both together... and C, both together, keeps winning. I do compensate for volume, and if anything the difference is even greater at low volume (where the Def Techs subs aren't doing enough, they are compensated by the B&Ws' bass response.

Since I'm new to hifi, I have spent around 2k just getting to this point, all in about 4 months. That money has gotten me some good times, a lot of fun listening to the music I love, some (to me) decent sound, and, most of all, has taught me a bunch of stuff. Like, you need to audition stuff before you buy. Duh, but it takes some effort, especially living where I do. But it's been super positive overall, and you guys have been awesome. I'm hooked.

I am looking into speakers that I will be able to audition as you and others have recommended. I'll probably sell both current sets of speakers, and hopefully I'll be able to get a decent budget together for new ones.

BTW:

Using two sets of speakers can overload the amp, especially if the impedance drops.

I have two amps, each powering a set, as described in my original post.

[JLM]

Audio shopping has changed in the 40 years I've been around it.  Back in the 70's there were bricks and mortar, no internet, no audio clubs.  You took your favorite LP's to the store and listened to 3 or 4 speakers per day (any more and you can't recall what you've heard).  Next weekend you'd repeat (and try to take into consideration their rooms versus yours and hope there wasn't a headbanger auditioning in the next room).

Now you can do lots of preliminary leg work from your keyboard and hopefully find a local club.  Start on the internet with reviews of pieces you're familiar with and learn the reviewers so you can "read between the lines" in their other reviews.  Some professional reviewers accept e-mail correspondance, which helps a great deal.  I have three or four reviewers that I understand/appreciate/agree with.  All that is convenient to do but takes lots of time.

[lonewolfny42]

Now you can do lots of preliminary leg work from your keyboard and hopefully find a local club.  Start on the internet with reviews of pieces you're familiar with and learn the reviewers so you can "read between the lines" in their other reviews.  Some professional reviewers accept e-mail correspondance, which helps a great deal.  I have three or four reviewers that I understand/appreciate/agree with.  All that is convenient to do but takes lots of time.

Good point.....

Audio is not a race....take your time and choose wisely...

[jackman]

Some good advice on this thread.  I would suggest, before you spend any more money, that you try to get to some good shops (ones that carry brands you can afford and possibly some used gear) and bring your favorite cd's. So check out a local audiophile club and some of the east coast audiocircle get-togethers. This would allow you to hear some gear that is not typically available in stores and to learn more about this hobby.

There are so many ways to piss away money in this hobby and so many people with wildly differing opinions on what sounds best, it's east to get confused or to make regrettable decisions. When you evaluate a system, make sure to keep your room in mind. Certain speakers may not work well in your room and you might want to keep this in mind.

One last thing, don't put too much weight into specifications. Most specs from big manufacturers are wishful thinking and can be misleading. Whatever you do, run away from a four speaker setup. A traditional two speaker setup is much more likely to give you good sound, even with modest speakers and gear.

Good luck!

J