I loathe Universal REMOTES

John Casler · « **on:** 23 Jul 2011, 04:08 pm »

As some may know I am small dealer for High End Audio and HT.

Being in that arena you might think I would be "up" on all the latest gadgetry and particularly remote controls.

I am not

I hate remotes! No it is not their function which is generally to change volume or inputs or play and stop, but the fact that if you have more than one component you either need to use multiple remotes, or attempt to program a UNIVERSAL remote to do the work of many.

Maybe it is my "wiring" (cerebrally) but I find all the universal remotes I have tried to be DISMAL disappointments.

Way back when, I jumped on the HARMONY remote bandwagon and it seemed like a good step, but it was still complicated, and if the synchronization wasn't set up well, then it didn't work and if one of my customers made a mistake and turned off one single component in the chain manually it threw the whole thing off and it was as much a pain as having 4 or 5 remotes and simply using each one for its own purpose.

Enter the IPAD and other such contenders

While I have not been trying any of the new "apps" offered for using the IPAD and or IPOD as a remote control, it seems inevitable that this may be the culmative future of CONTROL of everything from your car, to your home entertainment gear.

So what I am asking, is are any of you using this technology to a good result, or is it still to young?

I am not an IPOD/PAD owner and was wondering if anyone had been successful in configuring their AUDIO or HT GEAR.

Phil A · « **Reply #1 on:** 23 Jul 2011, 04:28 pm »

John, I have 3 Harmony remotes, one for the main system (Harmony One), one for the secondary bedroom system and one for the secondary basement system (picked up an old 880 at Costco for $98 that handles 15 devices). For a bit I shared a remote between the basement and bedroom system. I've learned to like them.

I had Pronto remotes before that. I got a couple of them for free with Philips VISA points. Being an audiophile, I did like the fact that it was not a difficult task to set-up screens the way I wanted with the button sizes and shapes the way I wanted especially to A/B a couple of components. It did take a lot longer to set-up though vs. the Harmony, escpecially when one changes components. Over time, they went bad. The Pronto 3000 faster than it should have (perhaps 4 years) and can't complain about the Pronto Neo or Pronto 2000 which probably were more than double that. Even though B&W, I liked the Pronto 2000 as it really was easy on batteries.

Ideally, I'd like a combination of the two at a reasonable price ($400 retail or less). I'll live with the Harmony as it is reasonable and if it goes, it's not expensive to get another.

electricbear · « **Reply #2 on:** 23 Jul 2011, 04:47 pm »

The URC series of Home Theater Master remotes do a very good job. I personally like the MX900 which when used in combination with the MRF350 RF/IR convertor works very well. I've used them in hundreds of installs and use them at home. They are relatively easy for a dealer or tech savy client to program. One of the big issues with universal style remotes is the fact that a lot of equipment manufacturers don't use descrete power on/off codes. That's why I like to use RF and convert it back to ir so codes being spat out don't end up fired at the ceiling or into a cushon.

Elizabeth · « **Reply #3 on:** 23 Jul 2011, 05:31 pm »

The remote from Hell in my book is the touchscreen remote for my Denon 4806 receiver.
I despise it because it has layers of menus in the touch screen, each with a different layout.. Impossible to get anything done. The problem is it turns itself off really fast. Then you have to start from square one. I despise it more than any other device i have ever encountered.

srb · « **Reply #4 on:** 23 Jul 2011, 05:35 pm »

I have played around with using my iPod Touch with an L5 IR module plugged into the docking connector as a universal remote. The upside is I can customize the size, color, shape, labeling and placement of buttons exactly as I want and the graphic rendering and look of the 3D buttons is really nice.

The downside is using a touch screen requires two-handed operation and it's easy to execute the wrong button unless you make them very large, but then you've used up too much real estate and would need to scroll the screen to access other buttons.

Some of these problems would go away with a larger format device like an iPad, but it still requires two-handed operation. At this point I'm not using the Touch because it is easier to grab the conventional universal remote with one hand and the physical buttons make it easier to execute commands by feel without pressing the wrong button, particularly repetetive DVR transport actions with my Media Center.

Steve

kingdeezie · « **Reply #5 on:** 23 Jul 2011, 06:02 pm »

I agree that the universal remote has a lot of ground to cover. I have a logitech 1100, and I don't even use the goddamn thing.

It is completely intuitive to set up, but there is no customization. The icons are bland and you can't change them.

Also, considering the complexity of my system, I can't use the all on function of the remote either. So, I need to search through a multitude of menus to get to the individual device buttons...

Top that with the fact that the IR signal is garbage, and is hit or miss with turning on my devices, and using them.

ctviggen · « **Reply #6 on:** 23 Jul 2011, 08:00 pm »

Quote from: kingdeezie on 23 Jul 2011, 06:02 pm

I agree that the universal remote has a lot of ground to cover. I have a logitech 1100, and I don't even use the goddamn thing.

It is completely intuitive to set up, but there is no customization. The icons are bland and you can't change them.

Also, considering the complexity of my system, I can't use the all on function of the remote either. So, I need to search through a multitude of menus to get to the individual device buttons...

Top that with the fact that the IR signal is garbage, and is hit or miss with turning on my devices, and using them.

I have URC remotes with RF receivers, and they're quite good. Nonetheless, until we get the manufacturers to get together and offer two-way communication via, say, an iPad-like RF remote interface, we'll never have perfection or something completely easy to use. However, I would never go back to having multiple remotes.

JP78 · « **Reply #7 on:** 23 Jul 2011, 08:19 pm »

Crestron or Control4.

It's not cheap, but rock solid reliable. When you're spending 2K on a cable, why not have a perfect integration front end?

Phil A · « **Reply #8 on:** 23 Jul 2011, 08:23 pm »

Quote from: JP78 on 23 Jul 2011, 08:19 pm

Crestron or Control4.

It's not cheap, but rock solid reliable. When you're spending 2K on a cable, why not have a perfect integration front end?

My problem with that (and a different opinion is OK) is that it does not make it sound better and it is a piece of electronics that can go bad. A cable, under normal use, generally does not go bad. My first Pronto I got for free was $400 list and at the time I though that was way too much for a remote. I've since come up and bit and I might consider something at that price point.

wilsynet · « **Reply #9 on:** 23 Jul 2011, 09:33 pm »

This is interesting.

http://www.iruleathome.com/

I have not evaluated it yet. I'm thinking of doing so though.

John Casler · « **Reply #10 on:** 23 Jul 2011, 09:41 pm »

Thanks all for your replies.

Let me add additional info.

As I said earlier, I am very familiar with Harmony and most programmable remotes.

My problem is helping customer/clients get something they can use without breaking the bank.

Few of my customers are "tech savy" and they also want something most of their family can use without a college level course in understanding each button and multiple maps to tell them what each button means to each components and that it doesn't mean the same thing for the DVD player as it does for the AVR.

Harmony went a long way, and I know Pronto was very popular, but with an IPOD or IPAD, why can you simply have the video picture of the "STOCK" remote for each component and use a touch screen to operate THAT component and when you need the AVR or PrePro you push AVR or PREPRO and "that" remote is on screen?

Then you only have to do the HARMONY-like set up by mapping the connections you used.

Right now, there is not a single, reasonably priced model that I can suggest or even program for my clients that I feel they could easily use without multiple phone calls over the lifetime of the product.

I heard recently that ONKYO has apps for their PrePros that work on the IPAD and or the IPOD and I thought that must be the new frontier and that soon ALL the apps (and any additional IR/RFI hardware) needed would be burgeoning forth.

I suspect, I was wrong.

John Casler · « **Reply #11 on:** 23 Jul 2011, 09:45 pm »

Quote from: wilsynet on 23 Jul 2011, 09:33 pm

This is interesting.

http://www.iruleathome.com/

I have not evaluated it yet. I'm thinking of doing so though.

This is the app I had heard about, and was hoping some have had experience with.

I am surprised this is not BIG news and spreading like wildfire. or maybe it is just as difficult to use as a Harmony and the interface or GUI sucks.

Phil A · « **Reply #12 on:** 23 Jul 2011, 10:03 pm »

I've browsed this site from time to time and looked at Nevo remotes among others. http://remoteshoppe.com/

ted_b · « **Reply #13 on:** 23 Jul 2011, 10:32 pm »

John,
I think the ipad/touch remote control builder apps (like iRule, Thinkflood or Re, etc) are currently hampered by being either very steep learning curves (for initial programming....flexibility equals complexity in most cases) or the need for add-on hardware like gateways or ir converters (in order to use wireless as IR). Also, I'm not sure I want to use my iPad as my go-to remote..it's a cool demo to friends but a PITA to use to simply turn up the volume. The jury is still out IMO.

I am a huge Pronto guy, but have had enough experience with them that making or modifying templates (ccf's, xcf's, etc) is very easy now. Adding a new toy's remote features is often a simple task and keeps my template flow in order. And I end up using 10% of the features of each remote anyway...if I need to do a service level thing I pull out the original remote. And i store mutliple versions in the pronto desktop software, so when I demo a new DAC, etc I'm not having to do a lot of housekeeping...I just fire up a different template.

pjchappy · « **Reply #14 on:** 23 Jul 2011, 10:49 pm »

Have you looked into this for the iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad ? RedEye I'm excited, as they are finally going to make a version for Android phones (in Beta testing).

I currently use my Android phone (Droid X) as a remote to control J.River Media Center. You can scroll through the albums/artists with your finger (like on an iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad). Very cool feature. With the same program (Gizmo), you can stream all your music on your computer to your phone ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, as long as you have an Internet connection on the phone (and of course, if your PC/server is turned on). So, you can have access to all your songs without loading them on your device.

So, John, for any clients of yours with an HTPC set-up, J.River Media Center with Gizmo is a great option (just for controlling J. River, not external devices). Without an HTPC set-up, RedEye looks like a great option to use with an iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad (and soon, Android phones and tablets), as it can control many devices (check the video located in the RedEye link above). RedEye has a couple other products, too.

Paul

John Casler · « **Reply #15 on:** 24 Jul 2011, 12:02 am »

Quote from: pjchappy on 23 Jul 2011, 10:49 pm

Have you looked into this for the iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad ? RedEye I'm excited, as they are finally going to make a version for Android phones (in Beta testing).

Now that is what I am talking about. . . . .IF. . . it really is as advertised.

Here is what I gleened from their site:

Quote

For someone who wants a traditional universal remote experience, I’d go with the ThinkFlood RedEye mini ($49 on ThinkFlood.com, plus free app on iTunes). You find your components in the RedEye app’s database and can then control components separately with screens that replicate each remote’s buttons. Plus you can set up activities, like “Watch TV,” which can have a custom set of buttons, including shortcuts to your favorite channels.

Digital Life, Today.com, May 5, 2011 (read more)

Virtually word for word what I was thinking was out there, but all I am looking for is simplicty for the client, so they can work with something (Ipod/IPAD/Iphone/etc) familiar that can perfrom the basic functions:

Volume
Input Switching
Play/Stop/Pause
ON/OFF

I can see it on the horizon, but not sure it is here yet.

HARMONY was a wonderful and major step, being able to go "on-line" and select your components and then tell Harmony how you connected all the inputs and how (digital/analog/or whatever)

I don't want or need macros and all of that. To me that is like writing computer code and should go on behind the scenes from basic instructions and selections. I don't want to remap buttons so you need to look at three different maps to know what button does what.

I can get this stuff, but my customers would last 15 minutes searching and just randomly pressing buttons hopin to hit the right one. (you know that is how many approach said remotes, right?)

Thanks all for letting me in on your experiences. We need ATM simple (most people can figure out how to operate one of those) and we're good.

pjchappy · « **Reply #16 on:** 24 Jul 2011, 12:26 am »

Everything I have read shows that it does work and is very, very easy to set-up. I would own one right now, if it was Android compatible. I do plan on getting the regular RedEye, which again, is in the Beta stage for Android compatibility.

Watch the video linked to below (same set-up for the mini). This device is awesome, IMO. You can set-up buttons to do multiple tasks (for instance, powering on/off all your devices). It also has a learning feature, to learn any signal for a remote that is not currently covered by them. You can customize the remote screen.

Looking at the video, it looks very easy to set-up, customize and use. To me, it looks like an awesome universal remote solution!

Here's the video: Getting Started With RedEye

For me, this has everything I have ever wanted in universal remote functionality, plus some. The ability to control any A/V device in your house, wherever you are in your house (well, even outside, as long as you are in Wi-Fi range) is very, very cool. Again, the apparent ease of use and customization has me sold.

Paul

pjchappy · « **Reply #17 on:** 24 Jul 2011, 12:37 am »

I just found this video while checking out RedEye's YouTube channel. VERY SWEET! Talk about customization!

Accelerometer functionality

To alleviate any more concerns you may have regarding ease of use, for your customers, you could have your own iPhone (or whichever device) already set-up for their system. Once you arrive, you can sync up your device with their device (over the network).

I have no affiliation with RedEye. . .I am just sold on this damn thing and very excited for the fact it will soon support Android devices. I will pull the trigger as soon as it does. I haven't seen a universal remote solution that even closely approaches this (but I also haven't looked at any device that is over $250).

Paul

pjchappy · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 Jul 2011, 12:57 am »

For anyone interested, I got a very quick response from someone at RedEye. I was just informed the Android supported version should be released mid-August.

Paul

poseidonsvoice · « **Reply #19 on:** 24 Jul 2011, 01:40 am »

Quote from: pjchappy on 24 Jul 2011, 12:37 am

I just found this video while checking out RedEye's YouTube channel. VERY SWEET! Talk about customization!

Accelerometer functionality

To alleviate any more concerns you may have regarding ease of use, for your customers, you could have your own iPhone (or whichever device) already set-up for their system. Once you arrive, you can sync up your device with their device (over the network).

I have no affiliation with RedEye. . .I am just sold on this damn thing and very excited for the fact it will soon support Android devices. I will pull the trigger as soon as it does. I haven't seen a universal remote solution that even closely approaches this (but I also haven't looked at any device that is over $250).

Paul

Paul,

I was seriously looking into getting a Logitech 1100 but now this looks far more applicable and interesting. The reason I think it works so well, other than the configurability and the ability to 'learn' from your stock remote (extremely important especially when they don't have it in the internet database, for example, do you think a Dodd Audio remote access code is on the internet? Nope!) is because the *Red Eye* device itself which has infrared capability stays within inches/feet from your components. This is HUGE for me. Why? My equipment is in a separate equipment room! I have to go through a TON of wall and most remotes can't handle that, and the ones that do, have a DELAY! The Red Eye communicates with the Ipod/Iphone/Ipad using Wifi, while it communicates with your equipment using Infrared. Ingenious.

This is especially cool for Mac users who use their Ipad/Ipod to select their music repertoire on their Mac Mini and play it using Pure Music/Amarra/etc... Now your remote is also on your Ipad!

Just add more Red Eyes for different rooms.

The only downside? There are a ton of negative reviews on Amazon, but I'll give it a shot anyway.

Anand.