OSX Lion is here!

Levi · « **on:** 21 Jul 2011, 01:31 pm »

I just upgraded to OSX Lion.

Lots of new features. I am not inducing everybody to upgrade. ;D

All my firmwares were upgraded prior to upgrading. Some software may not work with Lion. So far so good.

Enjoy!

ted_b · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 Jul 2011, 02:37 pm »

Lion has NO integer support so for those folks who have optimzied their MAC music servers for great performance (hog mode, integer support, etc) DO NOT go to Lion blindly...i.e have a backup to roll back to 10.6.8. Many of the 3rd party players out there are warning against it, too (Amarra sent a note, etc).

teros1 · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 Jul 2011, 03:56 pm »

I have been using Lion for months. It rocks IMO.

Unfortunately, not all audio software works with Lion. Most does IME.

So users should IMO beware of motive in 3rd-party "warnings" about Lion. How long has their product worked in Lion? Does it now?

As usual for Mac products, the best review of Lion is on Ars Technica: http://goo.gl/O0wQt

The section on memory management is particularly interesting.

My system never sounded better. Your software stack might have problems.

Lion is a great destination, but - as others suggest - proceed with caution while exploring it.

Bob

Full disclosure: I am a Mac power user, geek, etc.

teros1 · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 Jul 2011, 04:07 pm »

Here's a sample of incompatible software messaging:

Thank you for contacting us.

While the currently released versions of our software do not support Lion, it is our priority to maintain compatibility with the most recent operating systems.

However, due to the scope of this update, please be aware that updates may not be available immediately, and I am currently unaware of any specific timetable for an updated release of XXXX.

When updates are released they will be available in the "Product Updates" page of your account, so stay tuned to that page for the most up-to-date installers available.

Bob

ted_b · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 Jul 2011, 04:17 pm »

Bob,
No offense but if you have a music server and DAC that take advantage of nonmixable integer stream capability of these 3rd party players (which is a big feature and very good sound improvement) then DO NOT go to Lion yet. It is a fact that nonmixable virtual plus physical integer streams are not currently supported in Lion today.

teros1 · « **Reply #5 on:** 21 Jul 2011, 05:05 pm »

No offense taken, Ted.

That's an important observation.

My DAC works with OSX-format floating-point directly.

Bob

Cheerwino · « **Reply #6 on:** 21 Jul 2011, 06:33 pm »

Quote from: teros1 on 21 Jul 2011, 03:56 pm

I have been using Lion for months. It rocks IMO.

Unfortunately, not all audio software works with Lion. Most does IME.

So users should IMO beware of motive in 3rd-party "warnings" about Lion. How long has their product worked in Lion? Does it now?

As usual for Mac products, the best review of Lion is on Ars Technica: http://goo.gl/O0wQt

The section on memory management is particularly interesting.

My system never sounded better. Your software stack might have problems.

Lion is a great destination, but - as others suggest - proceed with caution while exploring it.

Bob

Full disclosure: I am a Mac power user, geek, etc.

That Ars Technica review is a sharply written read. Thanks for sharing.

skunark · « **Reply #7 on:** 21 Jul 2011, 06:39 pm »

Quote from: ted_b on 21 Jul 2011, 02:37 pm

Lion has NO integer support so for those folks who have optimzied their MAC music servers for great performance (hog mode, integer support, etc) DO NOT go to Lion blindly...i.e have a backup to roll back to 10.6.8. Many of the 3rd party players out there are warning against it, too (Amarra sent a note, etc).

What is meant by "no integer support"? Could it actually be that iTunes is now 64-bit and everyone has to recompile their addons like Amarra, or could it be that Lion now properly sandboxes applications to increase security?

whell · « **Reply #8 on:** 21 Jul 2011, 06:44 pm »

Quote from: skunark on 21 Jul 2011, 06:39 pm

What is meant by "no integer support"? Could it actually be that iTunes is now 64-bit and everyone has to recompile their addons like Amarra, or could it be that Lion now properly sandboxes applications to increase security?

From the Ars Technica review:

"In Lion, the sandbox security model has been greatly enhanced, and Apple is finally promoting it for use by third-party applications."

Also, same review:

"Earlier, the Mac App Store was suggested as a way Apple might expedite the adoption of new Lion technologies. In the case of sandboxing, that has already happened. Apple has decreed that all applications submitted to the Mac App Store must be sandboxed, starting in November."

ted_b · « **Reply #9 on:** 21 Jul 2011, 06:46 pm »

I simply mean that Lion does not provide core audio nonmixable integer streams (i.e either everything goes to floating point or something else is happening) soooo.....those 3rd party players like Pure Music that took advantage of being able to skip the floating point math (assuming the DAC's USB driver would allow) is no longer available. And yes, it might mean we don't need to do this anymore...dunno...but today, those great sonic improvements in those 3rd party music apps don't work (that way) in Lion.

teros1 · « **Reply #10 on:** 22 Jul 2011, 12:51 am »

Core Audio (OSX's audio handling routines) uses a native-endian, 32-bit floating-point, linear PCM format. Mac player software uses various formats, both fixed-point and floating. For example, both Decibel and Pure Music use 64-bit floats.

Now let me oversimplify a bit...

Some DAC's will accept integer formats, and will sound better when that data is presented in that "native" format. So the key question is: What's the best way to convert the data from float to fixed?

Two ways exist:

The default way is to let Core Audio do the work. But this requires two conversions! We have: 64-bit float -> 32-bit float -> integer. This is relatively inefficient and may lead to rounding or other errors under certain circumstances.
The improved way is to eliminate the middle step. But the player can only do this if it controls the stream in an uninterrupted sense. So we invoke "hog mode." In this mode the player software converts from 64-bit float to integer directly, and core audio is bypassed completely. Result = better sound.

WRT Amarra, iTunes 10.4 (the latest) is 64-bit. When iTunes starts, the warning below pops up. So the Amarra team must port to Lion/64-bit.

Pure Music works fine with Lion, but had a couple of minor glitches when I last played it.

Decibel works with no issues.

Bob

ted_b · « **Reply #11 on:** 22 Jul 2011, 01:43 am »

Bob, Pure Music ONLY uses 64-bit floats when not in the superior (for 10.6.8 that is) minimalistic integer stream support mode.

Also, Pure Music has a new fix for Lion that now allows hog mode (it was not allowing one to save hog mode in Lion due to Lion's changed way of looking at process id's).

But as I stated earlier, nonmixable integer support (bypasses floating point) is still only available in PM on OSX 10.6.8 or earlier. There are only a set number of DACS that support nonmixable integer processing, but for those that do, it is considerably better than dealing with core audio's floating point steps.

Levi · « **Reply #12 on:** 22 Jul 2011, 02:43 am »

My Office 2004 stopped working.

Crimson · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 Jul 2011, 03:01 am »

I, for one, am somewhat peeved at both Amarra and PM for not being on the ball with the release of the new OS. It's not Apple's fault, you know. The GM beta has been out for months.

ted_b · « **Reply #14 on:** 22 Jul 2011, 03:11 am »

PM is completely Lion capable at this time. What is the gripe? His new fix was released today (and the production version of Lion has slightly new API handling, Crimson, from the beta).

Crimson · « **Reply #15 on:** 22 Jul 2011, 03:31 am »

Good for 'him'. I still fault the vendors for the slack. Not Apple.

No gripe. Just an observation.

jparkhur · « **Reply #16 on:** 22 Jul 2011, 03:53 am »

Updated four computers yesterday, no issues, except for the random power pc program, not an issue to me. All up and running fine. Jp

Levi · « **Reply #17 on:** 27 Jul 2011, 01:48 am »

I just now discovered Mac Mail ver 5.0. It replaced my non working Entourage.

Quote from: Levi on 22 Jul 2011, 02:43 am

My Office 2004 stopped working.

Pez · « **Reply #18 on:** 27 Jul 2011, 04:54 pm »

Do any of these issues effect Squeezebox touch or any SB product? I just don't know/care enough about these details unless I absolutely have to.

Also regarding lion, I already hate the new way exposé works.

iluzun · « **Reply #19 on:** 27 Jul 2011, 06:13 pm »

Did the Lion upgrade this wk. on a mini server/4G ram. Partitioned a portion of disk so I can run
both Lion & Snow Leopard. I run a modwright transporter so I had to upgrade to 7.6. I run Ipeng on
an Ipad or Iphone4 for my remote. Currently the album art is not showing up via the scan but I am
sure this will be addressed shortly.

In my rig, all tube, custom pre & 6c33 monos, hot rodded DA-1s, audio magic liquid cables, Lion is a nice upgrade. More focus, air, & separation, a bit tighter w/a resulting touch more resolution.