Mac Mini vs iMac as music server?

JohnR · « **on:** 17 Jul 2011, 09:01 am »

I've been using a G4 mini as a music server/plater, which has convinced me that this path is here to stay. However, the G4, which must be close to 7 years old by now, is groaning under the weight... I was thinking of a new Mini, but by the time I up it to the same RAM (4 GB) and disk (500 GB) specs as the lowest iMac, and add a wireless keyboard and mouse (not absolutely necessary, but convenient), it's up over $1100. Whereas the lowend iMac is $1400.

So, I know all the fuss is about the Mini, but I do need a display on the machine (not so much for myself but for others).

Has anyone any thoughts on using an iMac as a (semi-dedicated) "music server"?

ZLS · « **Reply #1 on:** 17 Jul 2011, 10:59 am »

This is my experience.
I used a MacBook, went to an iMac, and am now using the Mach2 Mini, which is a MacMini with all the unnecessary code stripped out. My order of preference is in descending order.
As to your potential choice, I preferred the sound of the iMac to the MacBook. I believe the reason was that I could use a higher quality power cord, though I acknowledge that others prefer the sound of the MacBook precisely because you can run it on battery power and remove it from the grid altogether.
I will say with a degree of certainty that the quality of outboard Hard Drive that you will use will make an audible difference.
As in many things in the land of Audiophiles, different people hear different things.

JohnR · « **Reply #2 on:** 17 Jul 2011, 03:48 pm »

Thanks ZLS.

jrebman · « **Reply #3 on:** 17 Jul 2011, 04:45 pm »

John,

As much as I can, I agree with Zack, meaning that I haven't tried an iMac yet, but the mini, even stock is better than the MBP stock (AC or battery powered, and both machines using the same firewire music drive. The Mach2 mini significantly widens the gap.

HTH,

Jim

Atlplasma · « **Reply #4 on:** 17 Jul 2011, 08:09 pm »

Apple RAM is expensive. It makes more sense to buy the aftermarket modules. As for storage, consider an external enclosure rather than loading everything on your mini's drive.

I have a 2009 mini with 8 GB of aftermarket ram. I also replaced the hard drive with a 60 GB solid state. All my music is stored on externals connected through firewire.

jtwrace · « **Reply #5 on:** 17 Jul 2011, 09:10 pm »

If you're going to use Pure Music or Amarra I'd highly recommend 8GB of RAM. I've used Crucial or OWC and have had no issues at all with either. I do use a OCZ Vertex SSD for the OS.

RAM is very important then the SSD IMO.

ted_b · « **Reply #6 on:** 17 Jul 2011, 09:39 pm »

I'm getting ready to go from a 4 GB Macbook (not MBP) to a 2009 Mac Mini with 8 GB and SSD. The Mini (ebay) arrived last week but I wanted to get the new storage issues resolved first. Up until a few days ago I used an Oyen Digital 2.5" HDD connected via firewire (fw powerless, used wallwart for power). I now have a brand new Synology DS410 gigabit NAS and have iTunes/Pure Music 1.8a (integer suport with Antelope Gold USB DAC) pointed to it instead. I sense a slight lowering of the noise floor with using a NAS but not really sure, maybe a little less organic though too (but probably just placebo and overthinking it

).

Has anyone gone from well-isolated direct external HDD to NAS, and if so have you noticed any differences? Thx.

I'm looking forward to the move to the Mini, and then to a Hynes power supply for it.

jtwrace · « **Reply #7 on:** 17 Jul 2011, 09:41 pm »

Quote from: ted_b on 17 Jul 2011, 09:39 pm

I'm looking forward to the move to the Mini

Why the change from the Alix?

ted_b · « **Reply #8 on:** 17 Jul 2011, 09:49 pm »

Although the Hynes ps took the Alix to a new level (ahead of Macbook/PM 1.74) the release of Pure Music 1.8a and the nonmixable integer stream support for the Antelope leapfrogged the Alix/Antelope combo. It's not a fair fight, as the Alix is all of $125, and the Hynes another $450+ (tour demo was used, and i put a deposit down on the SR3-18), but it was worth it to me. I've now decided to use my "Hynes money" to go for his SR7-18v5 (Mac Mini external PS).

morganc · « **Reply #9 on:** 17 Jul 2011, 11:12 pm »

Hi John,
If you look everday on the Apple refurbished site you can pick up a Mac Mini for around $500. But they are only there from time to time. Also I remember seeing the Mach2Music guys having a sale on a fully upgraded and pimped out Mini for $1500. I went the refurbished route plus 100 for 8GB extra RAM and it sounds damn good for $600.

bretth · « **Reply #10 on:** 18 Jul 2011, 10:31 am »

IMHO having a good quality async USB DAC or USB -> s/pdif transport is now more important than which mac or drive.

External clocking and possibly isolation using something like the audiophilleo pretty much guarantees a clean signal into the DAC. With the audiophilleo in place itunes sounds fine to me whereas without it Audirvana is clearly superior. Without it, both are worse than my CA id100 ipod dock. I use a MBP with a SSD, but with a secondary 500GB regular drive which I also played tracks off.

Crimson · « **Reply #11 on:** 18 Jul 2011, 01:23 pm »

Quote

Has anyone gone from well-isolated direct external HDD to NAS, and if so have you noticed any differences?

I went the opposite, from NAS to direct 5400 rpm firewire externals. More for performance issues (slow library load time, Amarra not liking network drives, etc), but did not notice a difference in SQ.

JohnR · « **Reply #12 on:** 28 Jul 2011, 04:18 pm »

Thanks for all the responses. I am very strongly leaning to a new Mini at this point. Off the shelf (here in AU) it is half the price of the iMac and will solve all the network and speed problems of the old G4.

JohnR · « **Reply #13 on:** 10 Aug 2011, 03:51 pm »

Well it's done! I'm happy

Look see

I'll post my system in the Mini thread. I just went with the 2GB model, I find it hard to believe that more than 2GB of RAM would make any difference. At any rate, I can always buy some and put it in later. The internal drive is big enough for now (library is about 150 Gigs).

Thanks

ZLS · « **Reply #14 on:** 10 Aug 2011, 03:59 pm »

Quote from: JohnR on 10 Aug 2011, 03:51 pm

Well it's done! I'm happy Look see

I'll post my system in the Mini thread. I just went with the 2GB model, I find it hard to believe that more than 2GB of RAM would make any difference. At any rate, I can always buy some and put it in later. The internal drive is big enough for now (library is about 150 Gigs).

Thanks

Not only will 2GB make a difference; when I increased the memory of my mini to 8GB there was an clearly audible improvement in the sound. I am running Pure Music, so maybe the sound difference is particular to that software.
It seems crazy running my mini which I only use as a music server with 8GB while I run my iMac which is my everyday computer with 4GB, but that is my experience.
Go Figure!

Not only will 2GB make a difference; when I increased the memory of my mini to 8GB there was an clearly audible improvement in the sound. I am running Pure Music, so maybe the sound difference is particular to that software.
It seems crazy running my mini which I only use as a music server with 8GB while I run my iMac which is my everyday computer with 4GB, but that is my experience.
Go Figure!

JohnR · « **Reply #15 on:** 10 Aug 2011, 04:34 pm »

Well, as I said, I find it hard to believe... here's a snapshot from Activity Monitor just now:

What could all the extra memory be needed for?

ted_b · « **Reply #16 on:** 10 Aug 2011, 05:38 pm »

Quote from: JohnR on 10 Aug 2011, 04:34 pm

Well, as I said, I find it hard to believe... here's a snapshot from Activity Monitor just now:

What could all the extra memory be needed for?

Looks like you are not using PM's memory playback features, nor hog mode. Both improve the sound to a much greater extent than one would intuit. John, you're gonna want 4Gb at a minimum. 8 is a good music server diet.

pardales · « **Reply #17 on:** 10 Aug 2011, 05:45 pm »

Quote from: ted_b on 10 Aug 2011, 05:38 pm

Looks like you are not using PM's memory playback features, nor hog mode. Both improve the sound to a much greater extent than one would intuit. John, you're gonna want 4Gb at a minimum. 8 is a good music server diet.

I think that's right. I am running PM with an older iMac and only have 2GB RAM installed as that unfortunately is what the machine is limited too. IMHO it is not enough to allow PM to run smoothly especially using any of the special memory modes.

I'm looking to get out of the iMac and back into a Mini or Macbook.

JohnR · « **Reply #18 on:** 10 Aug 2011, 05:47 pm »

Quote from: ted_b on 10 Aug 2011, 05:38 pm

Looks like you are not using PM's memory playback features, nor hog mode. Both improve the sound to a much greater extent than one would intuit. John, you're gonna want 4Gb at a minimum. 8 is a good music server diet.

Actually, I am using memory play. I'm not using hog mode, because I'm not able to find it any more - maybe something changed with Lion... or perhaps I just can't find it.

Is there the slightest plausible reason why I need more memory, based on what I've just shown?

ted_b · « **Reply #19 on:** 10 Aug 2011, 06:22 pm »

Quote from: JohnR on 10 Aug 2011, 05:47 pm

Actually, I am using memory play. I'm not using hog mode, because I'm not able to find it any more - maybe something changed with Lion... or perhaps I just can't find it.

Is there the slightest plausible reason why I need more memory, based on what I've just shown?

The only thing in PM that went away with Lion is integer mode (assuming your DAC was even capable for it in Snow Leopard). Hog mode remains (and needs to have your DAC unselected in Audio Midi, just like it was in Snow Leopard). Look for the checkbox in audio setup.