[Charles Calkins]

So I guess all of you know that I am a DUMDUM when it comes to setting up a TT. It's all Greek to me. Setting up the Stylus force is a piece of cake. Just follow the TT instructions. Nothing to it. Should come out right and on the money. Or does it??

 To satisfy my curiosity I bought a Shure SFG-2 Stylus force gauge. I Got an older Stanton TT that I did a stylus force set up.  I followed Stanton's instructions and set the force at 1.5. The tracking gauge was set at 0. After doing this I checked the stylus force with the Shure gauge. If I'm doing things right the Shure gauge tells me that the force is not 1.5. It's on the plus side of 2. Using the Shure gauge I had to back the Stanton counterweight off to a reading of 1. Now the Shure gauge tells me the force is 1.5.

This is a great PUZZLEMENT!!!


                                                       Cheers
                                                         Charlie

[S Clark]

Well, I'm no further along with turntables than you, but I'd trust the gauge over the arm. Don't most counterweights slide with a bit of pressure? Hopefully John TCG or one of the regulars here will provide real advice.  In the meantime, at least I'll bump your question up again.

Scott

[Charles Calkins]

Scott:
On the Stanton and most of the other tables I've had The counterweight is on a threaded shaft. Thus if you move the counterweight in a right hand direction turn it increases the weight put on the stylus. Reverse it to a left hand turn direction and it decreases the weight on the stylus. My Rega P3-24 is not like that. The counterweight has a rubber type bushing on it. It fits very tight on the tone arm and the tonearm is not threaded. Plus no markings on it to tell what the stylus force is. That's why I bought the Shure gauge. Now I can do a setting without guessing at it. But I'm still not sure which method is correct.

  It is a puzzlement!!!
 
  Isn't this FUN!!!

                                                  Cheers
                                                  Charlie

[lcrim]

The first thing to do is to get the arm to "float" and then set your adjusting wheel at 0 (zero.)  Then you can crank in your downforce.  If you feel the need , check it w/ the force gauge.  But first is to establish zero downforce by getting the arm to "float."

Larry

[Charles Calkins]

Larry:
 Did that floating the arm thing. Followed the Stanton instructions setting the stylus force very carefully. Set it at 1.5. But when I checked it with the Shure gauge it was not 1.5. It was a little bit more than 2. Had to back off on the counterweight to get to 1.5 where I wanted it. Used the Shure gauge to get the readings I wanted.
 Now I'm wondering just how accurate are the factory counterweights. Are they lighter or heavier?. If they are not the correct weight the settings will be off. From now on I'm not going to trust the factory instructions on any table I buy from now on. Expensive or cheap. I'll be using the Shure gauge to check settings.

 It is a PUZZLEMENT!!!

 Very interesting though.

                                      Cheers
                                     Charlie

[lcrim]

Charlie:
How did it sound?  I have a Shure gauge too but after a few years stopped checking w/ it as I found it always sounded better just going by the dial on the arm.  I do tend to play w/ VTA throughout most listening sessions.

Larry

[Wayner]

There usually will be a difference, using a scale vs just trusting the arm scale, but not .50 grams worth. Charlie, are you setting the stylus in the outer groove where it says "times one". And when you set the arm for "zero" weight, it should literally float in the air, not tipping one way or another as lcrim has pointed out.

Besides owning the Shure gauge, I also own a couple of digital scales, and they all are very close, tho the digital ones are more accurate.

I have found that turntables like the AR-XA will not give a correct reading because the arm is damped and will give false readings on a scale. So I wonder if your table's arm is damped. I would also hope that you have your anti-skating set when you are using your scale, as the arm will tend to load sideways towards the platter rim if it's set to zero, and depending on which way you place the scale, could give you a false reading. The notch on the Shure scale should go be placed at the spindle.

Wayner

[Charles Calkins]

Wayne:
 Did the floating arm thing. Not once but maybe half dozen times. Set the stylus in the times 1 on the scale. I did this test at least half dozen times. I always come up with the same results. Never did something like this so I kept on repeating the test to satisfy myself I was doing it right. Maybe just maybe the Stanton TT is screwed up. I don't have another TT to check. As you know my Rega P3-24 has a different type counterweight. It doesn't have a wheel with a scale. I set the Rega counterweight stylus force using the Shure gauge. Rega sounds pretty good now.  No big deal. Just an interesting subject that we can discuss.

                                         Cheers
                                         Charlie

[Charles Calkins]

Charlie:
How did it sound?  I have a Shure gauge too but after a few years stopped checking w/ it as I found it always sounded better just going by the dial on the arm.  I do tend to play w/ VTA throughout most listening sessions.

Larry

 Larry:
  The Stanton TT isn't hooked up. I just used it for this test.

                                       Cheers
                                       Charlie

[Wayner]

Wayne:
 Did the floating arm thing. Not once but maybe half dozen times. Set the stylus in the times 1 on the scale. I did this test at least half dozen times. I always come up with the same results. Never did something like this so I kept on repeating the test to satisfy myself I was doing it right. Maybe just maybe the Stanton TT is screwed up. I don't have another TT to check. As you know my Rega P3-24 has a different type counterweight. It doesn't have a wheel with a scale. I set the Rega counterweight stylus force using the Shure gauge. Rega sounds pretty good now.  No big deal. Just an interesting subject that we can discuss.

                                         Cheers
                                         Charlie

Yes it does. It's on the side...

 

You set the knob to zero, then zero balance the arm, then set the weight.......The knob puts spring loaded weight on the arm, unlike other turntables where the you balance the arm, set the rotary weight indicator to zero, then you turn the weight until it reads the tracking force.

Not all tables set their VTF the same.


Wayner

[Wayner]

Here is the other style:

 

Wayner

[Charles Calkins]

Yes it does. It's on the side...

 

You set the knob to zero, then zero balance the arm, then set the weight.......The knob puts spring loaded weight on the arm, unlike other turntables where the you balance the arm, set the rotary weight indicator to zero, then you turn the weight until it reads the tracking force.

Not all tables set their VTF the same.


Wayner

 Wayne:
  The instructions for the Rega don't say anything about the Knob adjustments. They do say tracking force control but don't say where it is or have a picture of it. Plus I'm such a DUMDUM that I thought it didn't have any.
 So what I  did just now was set the knob to 0 and the Bias Thing to 0. I adjusted the counter weight so that the tonearm was "Floating". Then I turned the knob to a 1.5 reading. And checked the setting with the Shure gauge. Almost right on. Had to tweak the knob just a wee bit to get 1.5. As you can tell the Rega settings were correct. But the Stanton settings were not correct. Must be something wrong with the Stanton.

                                        Charlie

[Wayner]

Yeah, HEY REGA, your instructions SUCK! At least now Charles, you are less of a dumb-dumb 'cause you now learned a thing or two about setting VTF on various tables. For the Stanton, I'd trust the Shure gauge, just like you are doing.

Now get your anti-skating dialed in for both of the tables!!!!

Good going and say high to Frank for me if you go to the show tomorrow.

Wayner 

[Charles Calkins]

Don't use the Stanton. The Rega has a Bias Adjustment which I read as being the anti skating adjustment.

                             Thanks again
                            Charlie

[Wayner]

Bias adjustment = Anit-skating.

 

[Charles Calkins]

Well I'll be darned!! That's the first thing about the Rega TT I got right. BUT!!! How come Rega does everything different than other TT manufactures. Guess it's called saving money. You bet they are!! This TT is supposedly one of their best. If I had known how cheaply it's made I would never have bought it.


                                     Cheers
                                   Charlie

[Wayner]

They have several models above the P3-24, like the P5, P7 and P9. I think their quality is good (tonearms are exceptional), but their communication skills are poor. Manuals are poorly written, info is scarce. There is even controversy over the spindle to pivot distance. Some say 222, others say 223. Well, which is it.

There are some upgrade kits you can buy from folks at Music Direct and others, like a metal sub-platter and a non-resonant acrylic platter instead of the glass (which rings) and a low center of gravity counterweight. All said to improve the performance by incremental steps, but I have not heard them on any machine.

For a grand, I would have bought a Technics SL1200MKII (new, in a box).

Wayner 

[BaMorin]

They have several models above the P3-24, like the P5, P7 and P9. I think their quality is good (tonearms are exceptional), but their communication skills are poor. Manuals are poorly written, info is scarce. There is even controversy over the spindle to pivot distance. Some say 222, others say 223. Well, which is it.

There are some upgrade kits you can buy from folks at Music Direct and others, like a metal sub-platter and a non-resonant acrylic platter instead of the glass (which rings) and a low center of gravity counterweight. All said to improve the performance by incremental steps, but I have not heard them on any machine.

For a grand, I would have bought a Technics SL1200MKII (new, in a box).

Wayner 

221.7mm.    But then that's just me.  I'm a bit touchy about proper intonation.