[Chromisdesigns]

I can't be the only audiophile of "a certain age" who wears hearing aids (not to mention the younger types that trashed their hearing already with loud music).  Yet there is very little on the subject in the Circles -- a few mentions here and there in various topics, and a short thread in the now-closed General Audio circle.

Yet, this issue has got to affect many people here.  What do you all do to compensate, if anything?  Take your aids off and turn the knob up?  Build your own speakers with extra tweeters?  Just accept that you aren't hearing the high frequencies much?  Please post in this thread if you are interested in this subject, or have an interesting story to tell.

-- Or is this subject considered the "third rail" of audiophile discussions, much like touching Social Security used to be in the political world...? --

Either way, I'll start it off:

Just turned 60 this year, but have known I had hearing issues for a long time.  When I was in my twenties, I worked for several years in very loud computer rooms, and before that in school I was a drummer in a rock band.  Neither of those was much help, but I think the computer room noise was the real killer.

Anyway, I just compensated for many years, and it was fine.  Then, over the last 5 years or so, SWMBO started complaining increasingly that I couldn't hear her or anyone else, and she was getting tired of having to shout and constantly repeat herself.  Up to this point, as far as recorded music was concerned, I think I just compensated with the loud knob, and since the decline was gradual, really didn't consciously notice the HF roll-off.

About a year ago, I finally broke down and got some high-end hearing aids.  I had the audiologist set them up with several programs, including a "full range" uncompensated spectrum for music.  After getting used to them, I was really amazed how much better I could hear.  All of a sudden, the birds were back in the garden, for instance...

However, they weren't doing much for me music-wise, and I got in the habit of removing them for headphone listening, or when I was alone with the speakers.  At a followup, the audiologist suggested turning on a feature they have that does frequency translation -- takes the highest frequencies that I can't hear even with aids, and shifts them downwards.  The effect was nearly magical for everyday use, things got a lot more clear and intelligible.  But music sounds really bright in the midrange and hi-mid using that program.

All off this came to a head last week when I started using the new SqueezeBox Touch in place of my venerable old NAD 512 CD player.  Now I find myself needing to get accustomed to the new sound all over again -- initially it sounded really bright and fizzy.  Part of that was a hardware issue, and the rest is me -- and now I am getting used to the new sound and it doesn't sound so strange anymore.

But it leads me to wonder, not for the first time, how we really evaluate recorded music and reproduction systems, given the vagaries of our own hearing "system" -- I'm going to try to attend the West Coast show next week, for instance.  Now, if I walk into a listening room and hear something that sounds stunning **to me**, does that mean it sounds like an army of insane buzzing hummingbirds to people with "normal" hearing?

I have to say, both from an audiophile perspective, and generally, hearing aids are a pain in the butt! I wouldn't live without them now.  But I still find myself with them in my lap when listening to music, as often as not...

OK -- your turn!

[S Clark]

You are definitely not alone.  I am in the same age group, about to turn 59, and have had issues for years much as you describe.  Birds, crickets, etc. are pretty much a memory. Tinnitus is a constant companion. I have self tested periodically (easy to do with the internet and a pair of headphones) and have found a sharp decline over the past 3 years.  Although the wife doesn't mind shouting at me (she was a theater teacher for about 30 years, so the lady can project) group situations are getting difficult- so my next major audiophile investment is to head to Dallas, find a good audiologist, and see what hearing I can get back.  In my case, the most worrisome part is that I have been aware of the damage for decades, and try to take care of what I have left, and I am still losing frequencies. 

It is also interesting that hearing only midrange and bass, I have been able to match speaker evaluations when i have had Danny Richie and Gary Dodd out to evaluate student speaker projects.  Usually, with 8-10 projects, we will group the same top three or four, often in close to the same order, with similar critiques.  It's the bottom projects where we sometimes significantly disagree. 

[Chromisdesigns]

It is also interesting that hearing only midrange and bass, I have been able to match speaker evaluations when i have had Danny Richie and Gary Dodd out to evaluate student speaker projects.  Usually, with 8-10 projects, we will group the same top three or four, often in close to the same order, with similar critiques.  It's the bottom projects where we sometimes significantly disagree.

So what you are saying is that if someone comes in with "stun gun class" ultra-hypersonic tweeters, none of you can hear them, right?   

Which definitely begs the question, what are they for?

Having self-tested, what degree of high-end rolloff do you actually find you have?

And, btw, I really do love hearing the birds again...the traffic, not so much.  My aids are Phonak Excelia Art Micro's, with an open-baffle ear insert, rather than the earmold plug style.  When you talk to your audiologist, ask about those frequency-shifting programs.  I really found that to make a big difference in clarity and comprehension for everyday use.  I like the fact that my aids have "adaptive learning", too -- which means they pick and choose from the various individual programs the audiologist set up initally, depending on the current sound environment.  It's remarkably accurate in figuring out what is best at any given time, though sometimes you get a rather abrubt tonal shift as it changes programs on the fly.  I leave them on auto most of the time, but have programs for speech, crowded/noisy rooms, directional, music, quiet conditions, and maybe another one I can't recall at the moment.

Good luck, I don't think you'll regret the decision.

Bob

[Devil Doc]

I'm 61 and in the same boat. Years of competitive shooting and playing in loud bands has left my right ear with a serious high frequency roll off. If I plug my left I can't hear cymbals. I just turn it up. I'm an avid bird watcher and I can't hear most warblers. I look at the bright side, though. I have no desire to buy $1000 a meter wire.

Doc.

[bummrush]

Silly ? Can they be remote controllable.

[Chromisdesigns]

Silly ? Can they be remote controllable.

Not at all, and yes, many do have remote controls available -- with mine, I had a choice of a neck pendant (uh-uh..), a ridiculously over-priced wristwatch with built-in remote for the aids, and what I bought, a key-chain remote, with buttons to change the gain +/- and select the program.  I do use the remote, especially for controlling gain, but mostly just reach up and press the little stud that switches programs.  Mine talk to each other, so you only have to do it on one side, to change programs on both aids.

Be prepared for high prices on this stuff...you thought $1,000 / meter WIRE was steep...sheesh!

[eclein]

I got lucky after playing drums live and in studio since I was a youngin I mostly lost some high end frequencies in my right ear. I can't understand what people say if I put the phone to my right ear, left is OK. I used to play and when I really got into it I'd lower my head with my right ear about a foot away from the Hi-hat and with eyes closed play all out, so my right ear suffers from the loudness of a full stick hit on a hihat as it opened and closed from about 10-12 inches away.....I can still hear differences in pitch and tone, I just do not hear some freqs. or barely do so I don't think about it much. No aids, or precautions and I rarely crank it up, I listen loud enough so conversation can ride over top of the volume and once in awhile crank it but it never get ear splitting.
 This started as a real try at posting something helpful but after rereading it, I sound like I'm ramblin a bit or alot...sorry.

[timind]

About a month ago I was having trouble with my right ear. My ear was ringing loudly and my ear actually felt numb. I could tell I wasn't hearing well in that ear when I was shaving with the electric razor. Also loud sharp noises made me uncomfortable, I hesitate to use the word painful but loud noises made me cringe.
An appointment with an Otolaryngologist told me my high frequency hearing in the right ear was down a few db. He wasn't too concerned about that but was concerned about possble numbness. Of course he had no idea what was causing this and said come back in six months if conditions persisted or got worse.
Oddly enough I believe things have corrected themselves. I know my hearing is better as I can hear my razor on the right side and all of my self testing is positive. I now carry ear plugs with me and will put one in my right ear if things get loud.
I'm turning 57 soon and will say I was bumming.

[S Clark]

Having self-tested, what degree of high-end rolloff do you actually find you have?

It seems that I've lost most hearing above 5000 Hz in my right ear, and most above 4000hz in my left.  It's pretty severe.  It's hard to say the exact cause of my loss, but the most likely candidate is decades of quail hunting with my brother and my dad.  I can't count the number of times that I have been "muzzle blasted" by my brother's 12 ga.  However, I blasted him just as much, and he doesn't have the loss that I have and is 7 years older. My dad suffered severe hearing loss his last several years and was mostly deaf by the time he passed. 

Great timing for this thread. I've been putting this off long enough.   I'll talk to my GP this week and get her researching clinics in Dallas or Houston. Don't have much faith in the local guys. 

Scott

[FullRangeMan]

I read in a site of natural medicine that massaging the neck, behind the ears, resets the auditory nerve and reduces the ear selfground noise or tinnitus.
Give it a try... 3 mins a day for a week.

OBS.> Just remenber it works for me in 2010, no noise since then.

[Chromisdesigns]

Great timing for this thread. I've been putting this off long enough.   I'll talk to my GP this week and get her researching clinics in Dallas or Houston. Don't have much faith in the local guys. 

Scott

Of course, not all of it is caused by loud noise -- age-related hearing loss is very common, as is hearing loss due to one or another disease.

A big plus to the major hospital clinics, you are doing the right thing.  Don't go to a place that "sells hearing aids".  I used UCSF here in San Francisco, and they were awesome. 

I moved my mother here 4 years ago from the DC suburbs to an assisted living place near us.  She is 94 and completely deaf since childhood in one ear, and severely impared in the other for many years.  When she got here, she couldn't understand much of what people said to her.  We took her to UCSF and got her new aids, and while she'll never be much in a group, at least she can hear us now.

[Chromisdesigns]

I read in a site of natural medicine that massaging the neck, behind the ears, resets the auditory nerve and reduces the ear selfground noise or tinnitus.
Give it a try... 3 mins a day for a week.

There might be something to that -- I started doing yoga last year, and my episodes of tinnitus have decreased noticeably since then. 

[doorman]

Timely topic indeed. 65 here, many years of music by the "Detroit diesel symphony", "Milwaukee/ Makita/ Rockwell Trio" &c. have left me with tinnitus and severe hearing loss.
Have a referral next week with an ear, nose, throat specialist, then off to a hearing aid vendor.
I've learned to enjoy music in different ways, focusing instead on rhythm,  bass, & mids.
Thanks for the above info on hearing aids. I'm aware of many different types, and have avoided wading into that particular minefield, till now!
Best,
Don

[Photon46]

Although I've been lucky enough to retain my hearing pretty well at age 58, my wife has fought hearing loss and inner ear problems for the last twenty years. To all who seek relief through hearing aid technology, work at finding an audiologist who is well trained and represents multiple product lines. Here in Florida, state law mandates that a patient get a 30 day trial period with return privileges (minus fitting fees.) Seek a similar arrangement. My wife recently bought another set of hearing aids from an audiologist who had been proficient in dispensing and maintaining her Siemen's aids. The audiologist represented several product lines and had a good community reputation. However, she just could not get my wife into a set of aids that worked well for her this time. After two months of endless trips back and forth to the office to get new programming, ear inserts, fittings, etc. my wife threw in the towel and got her money returned. She started with another audiologist who was evidently better trained in all the technological advances in hearing aids which have occurred in the last few years and was prescribed a different brand. The Otocon aids proved to be just what she needed and has been completely happy after one fitting.

[FullRangeMan]

I heard the following conversation in the early 90's when I went into a record store where the owner import great audio equips from Miami.
Two elderly customers were in animated talk, a judge Mr.X and a local classical music producer, both retired.
They said something like this:
=Mine is better, mine is a Siemens digital, it is more advanced.
=No, the analog is better, mine is a Ericksom, much more clearer and soft.
Etc. ..
After they left I asked the shop owner, what they talking about? Dr.X has a Siemens CD player?
=No, it is the brands of hearing aid devices they use ...

[srb]

Now I'm trying to visualize vacuum tube hearing aids (with outboard battery belt, of course).  Aaaah .... this baby's got a sweet midrange!
 
Steve

[Chromisdesigns]

Now I'm trying to visualize vacuum tube hearing aids (with outboard battery belt, of course).  Aaaah .... this baby's got a sweet midrange!

Steve

You laugh now, just wait until next year's shows....   Seriously, I was a bit surprised to find out I knew more about digital signal processing than the audiologist; though she was able to teach me a few things I didn't know about human hearing response and ways to trick it.  I don't think the clinic made any money on me for the setup visits; the two of us had a grand old time experimenting and tweaking the gear.  Just like an audio club meeting!

Your comment does bring up an interesting idea, though -- how about building a high-quality parametric equalizer and setting it to flatten your hearing response, then you could listen without aids in your listening room...
 

[drphoto]

I'm 52 and seem to have the opposite problem. I find I'm overly sensitive to high frequencies. I run sound for a local band and have had younger people say they think I roll the high end off too much. I also don't run our overall volume nearly as high as most live acts.

I know I have some hearing issues, mostly that it's hard for me to discrimate speech in a noisy enviroment. Yeah, I listened to my fair share over overly loud music when younger, but also plenty of ear infections all my life. ( a nasty bilateral one just about a month ago)

[Chromisdesigns]

I also don't run our overall volume nearly as high as most live acts.

Good on you, mate!  You are helping prevent hearing loss (at least as long as the patrons never go see anyone else live...).

Seriously, I have been to clubs and shows that were way over tolerable sound levels, even without my hearing aids.  Considering the amount of boost the audiologist programmed into them, that's downright scary.

[lndacald7]

Just looking for good HA to go with. Never had any and really don't want to think about wearing them but I really need them soon... I have nerve deafness. My ears are both physically healthy. Nothing wrong with them. But I have no high end anymore, mid-range is lacking. Bass is too sensitive. (Which I don't mind too much). Any help would be great! PEACE!!!!!!