Cabling for Separates: The Audio Chain

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headshrinker2

Cabling for Separates: The Audio Chain
« on: 5 Jul 2011, 06:35 pm »
Greetings everyone.  Currently choosing cabling for system that includes Bryston:

BP25 Preamp
4BSST Amp
BDA-1 DAC
NAD C541 CDP (digital out)

When looking at the signal chain CDP/DAC/Preamp/Amp, are some interconnects more important sonically than others?  For example, CDP to DAC?  Or preamp to amp? 

I currently have a Wireworld Starlight 6 digital coaxial from CDP to DAC.   Evaluating XLR balanced connects for the rest including Audioquest King Cobra and Kimber Hero.

Thanks.



wywires

Re: Cabling for Separates: The Audio Chain
« Reply #1 on: 5 Jul 2011, 07:24 pm »
Greetings everyone.  Currently choosing cabling for system that includes Bryston:

BP25 Preamp
4BSST Amp
BDA-1 DAC
NAD C541 CDP (digital out)

When looking at the signal chain CDP/DAC/Preamp/Amp, are some interconnects more important sonically than others?  For example, CDP to DAC?  Or preamp to amp? 

I currently have a Wireworld Starlight 6 digital coaxial from CDP to DAC.   Evaluating XLR balanced connects for the rest including Audioquest King Cobra and Kimber Hero.

Thanks.

Here is my idea of order of priority:

1. S/Pdif, CDP-DAC (believe it or not, digital cables do make a huge difference)
2. DAC to Preamp
3. Preamp to power amp
4. Speaker cables
5. Power cords

headshrinker2

Re: Cabling for Separates: The Audio Chain
« Reply #2 on: 5 Jul 2011, 09:08 pm »
Thanks for the reply.  Your posts definitely makes sense and seems reasonable.  Have you done a bunch of experimenting with this in the past in your system?

Here is my idea of order of priority:

1. S/Pdif, CDP-DAC (believe it or not, digital cables do make a huge difference)
2. DAC to Preamp
3. Preamp to power amp
4. Speaker cables
5. Power cords

wywires

Re: Cabling for Separates: The Audio Chain
« Reply #3 on: 5 Jul 2011, 10:39 pm »
Thanks for the reply.  Your posts definitely makes sense and seems reasonable.  Have you done a bunch of experimenting with this in the past in your system?

Yes, I believe that the source is the most important and deserves a good wire. As I read the comments coming from my customers, it seems that most believe that the digital cables make the most profound improvement. This is not a scientific analysis but it seems that way based on casual observation.

larevoj

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Re: Cabling for Separates: The Audio Chain
« Reply #4 on: 6 Jul 2011, 03:51 am »
Here is my idea of order of priority:

1. S/Pdif, CDP-DAC (believe it or not, digital cables do make a huge difference)
2. DAC to Preamp
3. Preamp to power amp
4. Speaker cables
5. Power cords

I absolutely agree with the above. I recently replaced my digital BNC cable for my source and was astonished by the performance gained!!   :o


SoundGame

Re: Cabling for Separates: The Audio Chain
« Reply #5 on: 6 Jul 2011, 12:19 pm »
There are also two schools of thought on loom in your system:

1) Stay with the same manufacturer line of cables from input to output on your system, as cables are generally designed/tested together as a family and to get to most out of them (the design objectives) you want to use them in combination.

2) Go with different types of cables on the input vs. output sides to neutralize any signature harmonics / weakenesses that are imbedded in the cable design (as no cable is perfect).

I can't say that I side with either one but these seem to be the main followings.  Personally, I would like to find a family of cables I like an start there as a reference point (my base) and then tweak by adding or removing from there or moving up the line with the same manufacturer.

rollo

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Re: Cabling for Separates: The Audio Chain
« Reply #6 on: 6 Jul 2011, 12:56 pm »
   Bryston ICs and speaker cables for Bryston gear. Except the digital cable. Now powercords are another story . For digital PC's grounding schemes, are not equal, use a PC that is specifically designed to be used with digital.
  We have found that PC's have a big affect on the amps. Have fun trying, cause that is what it is all about. Judge for yourself in your system.


charles

SoundGame

Re: Cabling for Separates: The Audio Chain
« Reply #7 on: 6 Jul 2011, 01:05 pm »
   Bryston ICs and speaker cables for Bryston gear. Except the digital cable. Now powercords are another story . For digital PC's grounding schemes, are not equal, use a PC that is specifically designed to be used with digital.
  We have found that PC's have a big affect on the amps. Have fun trying, cause that is what it is all about. Judge for yourself in your system.


charles

Drop the PC and pull-in a BDP-1... Wink2

Deftone

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Re: Cabling for Separates: The Audio Chain
« Reply #8 on: 6 Jul 2011, 01:23 pm »
AES/EBU Da1 to cd1. All cabling from PAD'S and i am happy with it.

werd

Re: Cabling for Separates: The Audio Chain
« Reply #9 on: 6 Jul 2011, 05:48 pm »
Here is my idea of order of priority:

1. S/Pdif, CDP-DAC (believe it or not, digital cables do make a huge difference)
2. DAC to Preamp
3. Preamp to power amp
4. Speaker cables
5. Power cords

This is a good list. I would insert power cord the dac or source as no.2 after digital. They both prop each other. After that, cabling is just an off shoot of what we hear from these two cables....

Anybody interested in hearing their system improved try using the Wywires in digital and power cord position in their source. They will improve all parts of your soundstage and a nice sheen in your cymbals.

vegasdave

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Re: Cabling for Separates: The Audio Chain
« Reply #10 on: 6 Jul 2011, 08:30 pm »
   Bryston ICs and speaker cables for Bryston gear. Except the digital cable. Now powercords are another story . For digital PC's grounding schemes, are not equal, use a PC that is specifically designed to be used with digital.
  We have found that PC's have a big affect on the amps. Have fun trying, cause that is what it is all about. Judge for yourself in your system.


charles

I agree.

headshrinker2

Re: Cabling for Separates: The Audio Chain
« Reply #11 on: 8 Jul 2011, 03:16 am »
A customer rep from Audioquest had some interesting answers to my question about the relative importance of different parts of the audio signal chain.

Not surprisingly, he conveyed that the optimal cable/interconnect will introduce the least amount of distortion to the audio signal (i.e. a cable cannot improve the original audio signal).  He did not think one part of the signal chain was paramount- rather he emphasized the cumulative effects (i.e. cumulative distortion) of all the cables/interconnects in the system.  In his opinion, a few high quality interconnects with average speaker wire would most likely end being comparable in audio quality to average connects and excellent speaker wire. 

So if I understand his feedback, cabling/wire throughout the system that introduces the least amount of signal distortion would be the target.

werd

Re: Cabling for Separates: The Audio Chain
« Reply #12 on: 8 Jul 2011, 07:17 am »
A customer rep from Audioquest had some interesting answers to my question about the relative importance of different parts of the audio signal chain.

Not surprisingly, he conveyed that the optimal cable/interconnect will introduce the least amount of distortion to the audio signal (i.e. a cable cannot improve the original audio signal).  He did not think one part of the signal chain was paramount- rather he emphasized the cumulative effects (i.e. cumulative distortion) of all the cables/interconnects in the system.  In his opinion, a few high quality interconnects with average speaker wire would most likely end being comparable in audio quality to average connects and excellent speaker wire. 

So if I understand his feedback, cabling/wire throughout the system that introduces the least amount of signal distortion would be the target.

That does make sense but once you start getting your hands dirty and start feeling around a pattern emerges. Nothing will screw with timing and prat like a digital rca/xlr for eg. As you move cables around you start to get a sense of what you like and what everything does in your own system. His explanation is right but its textbook too. 

I personally don't like all the same brand of cabling working in one system. Thats my own opinion but i find  i want to hear the cabling off the transport, including power cables off the source. If you cable the same brand what can happen is the cable signature brand can drowned out the source. I know its sounds funky but thats the best i can describe it.

Right now i am using Wywires xlr between my bdp and dac. Empirical audio from my dac to the pre amp and Wywires from my pre amp to power amp in rca.

Another alternative i like is my Atlas opus rca from my bdp to dac - Wywires dac to pre and pre to power. I use Gutwire as speaker wire on both.

Both sound great on Bryston gear.

Bryston have good wire too but i wouldn't use it straight through. The xlr and bnc are good and they sound good with wywires down stream. The speaker cable sounds great in all wire strategies.

I will say that the Audioquest rep isn't correct on the signal chain importance. If you screw up the source cabling its a done deal. A lot of source power and signal don't lay down the beats very well and there is no repair after that.

larevoj

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Re: Cabling for Separates: The Audio Chain
« Reply #13 on: 8 Jul 2011, 08:00 am »

I personally don't like all the same brand of cabling working in one system. Thats my own opinion but i find  i want to hear the cabling off the transport, including power cables off the source. If you cable the same brand what can happen is the cable signature brand can drowned out the source. I know its sounds funky but thats the best i can describe it.


Its sound perfect sense to me...most important is what sounds right and musical to your ears. I mix and match my cables to give the best sound...you are likely to find different instrument brands in one orchestra  :)

headshrinker2

Re: Cabling for Separates: The Audio Chain
« Reply #14 on: 8 Jul 2011, 01:30 pm »
To clarify, the Audioquest company rep did not suggest staying with one brand of wire/connects throughout the system.  He was highlighting the cumulative effect of distortion throughout the signal chain.  It seemed he was advocating aiming at high quality cabling at each stage of the game to avoid messing up the signal.  If the "next-level-up" of cabling actually works to reduce distortion or jitter, then at least theoretically- this makes sense to me. 

No doubt, most audiophiles are going to audition/choose electronics and cabling until their ears are obscenely happy.  Most folks (with good hearing) who have tried different brand and models of cable/wire know how dramatic the resulting differences can be. 


robb

Re: Cabling for Separates: The Audio Chain
« Reply #15 on: 9 Jul 2011, 02:18 am »
I have never seen any cable manufacturer making measurements of "distortion", or more importanatly, the phase, and group delay of their cables. 

I would love to see a measurement of the arrival times of various frequencies as they exit the cable as compared to the input.

Rob