Old Mcintosh Preamp? Or Emotiva?

Rclark · « **on:** 4 Jul 2011, 09:37 am »

So Emotiva has a new preamp coming soon called the XSP-1. It is pretty much in the bag to come out in the next few months. It's going to launch at $899 although I'm sure I will be able to get a special launch price deal, probably a hundred off or something like that, Emotiva is very good about that.

It will be a very feature rich stereo preamp, incorporating all the bells and whistles, dual subwoofer outs, balanced input/outputs, tone controls, etc, etc.

It will match my Emotiva ERC-2 cdp and XSP-1 DAC, and I will be able to have a balanced connection on all three.

They have another preamp, the USP-1, but this XSP-1 is supposed to be their top of the line model.

I understand Mcintosh is just superlative, from what I've seen and read.

There are a lot of very old Mcintosh preamps going for around 5-600 bucks on Audiogon and I was wondering.. Would I be just as well served going with one of those?

JohnR · « **Reply #1 on:** 4 Jul 2011, 09:45 am »

When you say "old," how old is that exactly?

srb · « **Reply #2 on:** 4 Jul 2011, 10:00 am »

Quote from: Rclark on 4 Jul 2011, 09:37 am

There are a lot of very old Mcintosh preamps going for around 5-600 bucks on Audiogon and I was wondering.. Would I be just as well served going with one of those?

Chances aren't you wouldn't. Older vintage preamps often need a good cleaning and servicing to clean scratchy controls (if they're not worn out), and some capacitors may need replacing. I had an older C26 preamp that had scratchy controls that contact cleaner did not fix, some of the switches would make a loud pop, and the circuit was a bit noisier than I had expected. I ended up trading it in for something newer.

It won't have balanced connections, remote control or subwoofer outputs. I think it would be a completely different story with a more recent Mcintosh preamp, but even a used one of those will cost you several times the cost of the Emotiva.

Steve

Rclark · « **Reply #3 on:** 4 Jul 2011, 10:32 am »

How old?

We're talking like this: http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatran&1313636589&/McIntosh-C27-Preamplifier-Soli

And thereabouts.

JohnR · « **Reply #4 on:** 4 Jul 2011, 10:33 am »

Ad doesn't say how old. However srb has good advice.

Rclark · « **Reply #5 on:** 4 Jul 2011, 10:34 am »

Oh that's from the 80's I think.

But lets say I got it serviced and replaced a few caps. I wonder?

JohnR · « **Reply #6 on:** 4 Jul 2011, 11:45 am »

Well, my take on it is that vintage gear is an endeavour all it's own. It can be satisfying but I think the days of getting great sound on the cheap by that route are over. If you want to get into it, that's really great

but buying whatever and then giving it a service and cap replacement is not going to get you "there" automatically.

kingdeezie · « **Reply #7 on:** 4 Jul 2011, 01:43 pm »

I would think that the Mcintosh preamplifier, if properly serviced, would sound much better then the Emotiva gear.

The Emotiva stuff is pretty good for the money, but it usually is not the best of quality and doesn't sound very good either.

I had an XPA-5, it sounded decent enough, but for no reason other then poor craftsmanship; the RCAs popped right out of the case.

It also was terrible for music, and was relegated completely to HT use. I have no experience with their preamplifiers or processors, but apparently the processors have been a mess in terms of firmware quirkiness in the last handful or so.

However, if 700 is your budget, I would think you would likely exceed it pretty quickly if you bought the Mcintosh. Caps and restoration can get spendy pretty quickly depending on what still works.

rollo · « **Reply #8 on:** 4 Jul 2011, 03:40 pm »

The McIntosh is a crap shoot. It could be a perfect match or may not be. The cost of restoation to take a chance can only be your decision. You can audition an Emotiva in your home with a money back guarantee. so give it a whirl.
You also may to check out the Passive Pre from Luminous they custom desin one to match your components. Inexpensive and quite good. If you want tubes Nightshades pre is a killer.

charles

Rclark · « **Reply #9 on:** 4 Jul 2011, 08:34 pm »

About the xpa-5 I can understand, its pretty much just a ht amp and even Emotiva admits its gonna have the least sq of its amps, but the xpa-1 monoblocks, as well as the upa-1 monoblocks are very highly regarded for the money.

About the umc-1 being a mess, that's their home theater proc, and I believe they ironed out the issues with it.

I only own their stereo gear, the Erc-2 and Xda-1 dac and they sound great so im sure the xsp-1 will at least match them. Also built like tanks, I cannot imagine rcas falling out, they are very sturdily built. The 5 year warranty should cover any mishaps too.

But I was just wondering if an old McIntosh would still kick enough butt to where I couldn't hear a difference between the Emotiva. They certainly look cool.

Phil A · « **Reply #10 on:** 4 Jul 2011, 08:40 pm »

I have the XDA-1 in the secondary basement system and it is built like a $2k DAC not a $300 one. If you are not in a hurry, you can always wait a bit longer, save some money and raise the budget a drop. I agree you can audition the Emotiva and if you don't like it send it back. If the budget can creep up a drop, something like a Bryston BP-25 is possible and with a 20 year warranty from the date of manufacture (prior to 2006) you can get something and have lots of warranty. Might want to look at tube preamps too as it might be a nice compliment to the solid state

MaxCast · « **Reply #11 on:** 4 Jul 2011, 09:43 pm »

I'd much rather take my chances on this preamp
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=92726.0

Rclark · « **Reply #12 on:** 4 Jul 2011, 10:15 pm »

Phil A · « **Reply #13 on:** 4 Jul 2011, 11:32 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 4 Jul 2011, 10:15 pm

Why?

From a known company with a wonderful long term reputation for support. As I also noted, "Might want to look at tube preamps too as it might be a nice." Frank also noted if you don't need a phone stage you can do without.

JLM · « **Reply #14 on:** 5 Jul 2011, 01:26 am »

I had a McIntosh 6100 integrated from 1977. Well built, but it sounded very thick and dull. The Advent receiver (half the price, half the power, but a classic) blew it away, especially as a pre-amp. The NAD 3020 (again half the price, half the power, but another classic) blew it away too. Soon after that Hafler introduced the DH-101 pre-amp and matching (classic) power amp for the same price that blew it away on all sonic counts. Note that the McIntosh was built better than any of these competitors, but was frankly overbuilt. (I owned the 3020 and Haflers). Yet as mentioned I've known a few McIntosh pre/integrates of that vintage and they all have problems with dirty/scratchy controls.

The safe bet would be to stick with the Emotiva. Do you have a favorite repair shop?

I agree that vintage (in general) has a hard time keeping up with new these days. If your need for flexibility/control is minimal there are lots of options out there within your price range. Don't forget to look into all the combination pieces (headphone/pre-amp, pre-amp/DAC, etc.). Burson Audio has some very good/affordable products to consider. There's a CARY CPA-1 ss spl-03, a Jeff Rowland Coherence One preamplifier w/ phono stage, Roksan Caspian M-1, and Morrison ELAD (from an AC member) on Agon right now around your price range. Another good tube pre-amp option is Mapleshade 2A-SE.

bummrush · « **Reply #15 on:** 5 Jul 2011, 01:50 am »

Stll stay open to used ,,so many bargains out there. You basically pay 1k for emotiva.That buys alot of damn good used pre amps.

MaxCast · « **Reply #16 on:** 5 Jul 2011, 10:28 am »

Quote from: Rclark on 4 Jul 2011, 10:15 pm

Why?

Well, for what Phil said really. Actually, get both. If you don't like the Emotiva send it back, if you don't like the AVA sell it and maybe lose $100. Quite cheap for your system to answer most of your questions.

face · « **Reply #17 on:** 18 Jul 2011, 10:53 pm »

Mac vs. Emo, two completely different house sounds.

If you decide to purchase a used Mac, check out Audioclassics' selection, at least you'll know the unit has been gone through and serviced by a qualified tech.

IIRC, Emo's balanced isn't fully balanced, but IMO the XLR connector itself is superior to the RCA.

If you're looking for dynamics, slam, transparency, and a large soundstage, I'd recommend a used Wyred 4 Sound STP or STP-SE preamp. It's a little more pricey than the other preamps you're looking at, but you get what you pay for.

Wayner · « **Reply #18 on:** 19 Jul 2011, 12:05 am »

My friend just picked up a Marantz 140 power amp and a 3200 preamp, that are 36 years old and are in perfect condition, so If you are patient (and picky) you can score some nice vintage stuff that sounds every bit as good as the new stuff for a lot less money. He got the pair in walnut cabinets and with no visual marks on the faceplates, both for $250. Craigs list is the place to watch.

I also have had a Marantz 140 serviced by Mike Zuccaro, who is also southern California's approved McIntosh service guy and he is top shelf, if you want to persue a used Mc.

The other thing I'd like to chime in on is people replacing "old" capacitors. Unless they are 50% out of tolerance, it just isn't needed to be done, and many that do, replace it with the wrong voltage or type capacitor and end up with worse than when they started.

I am a Marantz collector and none have ever had (or needed) a cap replacement. I still do not recommend used turntables for newbies.....

Wayner

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #19 on:** 19 Jul 2011, 12:30 am »

I think you would get better sound with this less expensive tube preamp.

http://www.aricaudiosystems.com/product.sc?productId=16&categoryId=2