Which AVA DAC to Buy?

trackball02 · « **on:** 26 Jun 2011, 06:29 pm »

I'm looking at purchasing a DAC, currently my system consists of a AvaStar Pre, Ultravalve Amp and Zu Soul Superflys.

I'm trying to decide between the Vision EC DAC or Vision Hybrid DAC. Has anyone made any critical comparisons between the two? What will work best for my system?

Currently, my Digital sources are cable box and BluRay player (both have optical outputs in stereo) and CD player with coaxial. Thinking of a music server in the future, but not sure which one.

Thanks for any comments.

Charles Calkins · « **Reply #1 on:** 26 Jun 2011, 06:39 pm »

Never heard the Vision DAC. I have the Vision Hybrid DAC and I like what I'm hearing. But for what it's worth I prefer a Pre,DAC or CD player with tubes. Don't like tube amps!!!

Cheers
Chjarlie

JerryM · « **Reply #2 on:** 26 Jun 2011, 06:39 pm »

Personally, I like Frank's tubed gear, so I would go with the Hybrid DAC ~~and one of these.~~

Have fun,

Jerry

srb · « **Reply #3 on:** 26 Jun 2011, 07:09 pm »

Quote from: JerryM on 26 Jun 2011, 06:39 pm

Personally, I like Frank's tubed gear, so I would go with the Hybrid DAC and one of these.

What is the reason for the external switcher? The Vision Hybrid DAC (like the EC) has 2 optical and 2 coaxial inputs.

Steve

JerryM · « **Reply #4 on:** 26 Jun 2011, 07:13 pm »

Quote from: srb on 26 Jun 2011, 07:09 pm

What is the reason for the external switcher? The Vision Hybrid DAC (like the EC) has 2 optical and 2 coaxial inputs.

Steve

Consider my post edited, and the switch money saved.

pansixt · « **Reply #5 on:** 27 Jun 2011, 11:45 pm »

Track,
As I mentioned before, I have the Vision EC DAC. I was not aware of the Hybrid when I got the EC DAC.
I run optical from the CDP and coax from the cable box. Some of the feed from the music channels sound simply amazing.
I have been contemplating the SqueezeBox Touch. I just have so many other projects at the moment.
We look forward to hearing what you decide, and by the way, I would love to hear both thru your system.
James

I.Greyhound Fan · « **Reply #6 on:** 28 Jun 2011, 01:38 am »

Go for the hybid. I own an Ultra hybrid and compared his solid state, tube and hybrid DAC's and I went with the Hybrid for its transparency, detail and wider sound stage. All three were excellent though. I plan on doing the mosfet upgrade in the fall to my DAC to bring it close the the current model.

trackball02 · « **Reply #7 on:** 28 Jun 2011, 01:52 am »

James,
Sounds like you are quite happy with the Vision EC DAC, would you expect any improvements with the hybrid DAC? I'm far from an expert, but I'm wondering what are the benefits of the hybrid DAC, since I already have a hybrid preamp. I'm sure there are experts out there who know.

Regardless, I'm convinced that staying with an AVA DAC would be a good choice, since DACs seem to come and go, and getting a unit that can be possibly upgraded in the future is quite appealing.

PM me if you are ever in the Los Angeles area, if you would like to hear my system.

I Greyhound....were you able to make a direct comparison between the solid state and the hybrid versions?

Thanks, Jay

JerryM · « **Reply #8 on:** 28 Jun 2011, 03:20 am »

Quote from: trackball02 on 28 Jun 2011, 01:52 am

I'm wondering what are the benefits of the hybrid DAC, since I already have a hybrid preamp.

My vote is: The ability to roll tubes. That's only my opinion, though.

It's noted that you live in the greater L A area. PM sent. I have some pretty nice demo speakers here right now; this could be fun.

Have fun,

Jerry

pardales · « **Reply #9 on:** 28 Jun 2011, 01:56 pm »

I await a Vision Hybrid DAC from Frank and Co in the next few weeks. I auditioned the standard Vision a little over one year ago after owning, and being very happy with, the Insight+ DAC. At the time I remember thinking to myself, this is the the most transparent DAC I have ever heard, but decided that I wanted to try some USB DAC's instead. The Hybrid was not out yet.

When I heard about the Hybrid Vision several months ago I can remember thinking to myself, having heard the stock Vision, "a tube output on that thing would be killer!" Well, I am banking on that.

Right now I am trying to decide how to connect my computer (iMac) to the DAC. I know Frank likes the Kingrex UC 192 converter. I am thinking about either the UC 192 or the Halide Bridge. The Bridge only does 24/96. As of now I only have about a dozen albums in Hi-Rez and none are higher than 24/88.2. I use Pure Music and have begun experimenting with its upsampling feature. Again, I haven't set it to do anything but multiple of 2 upsampling on my thousands of Redbook files. What I like about the Halide is that it is a direct connection from the computer's USB port into the DAC. Where as, with a converter like the Kingrex, or any such (VDAC, GD-D1, take your pick), you have an additional digital cable. I'll probably end up trying both at some point as that is the only way i'll know. I haven't completely ruled out Optical from the computer to the DAC with a quality glass optical cable - but no one seems to think that will better the other options mentioned.

The Hybrid is considerably more expensive than the stock Vision. So you have to factor that in.

Anyway, hope my rambling helps a bit.

I.Greyhound Fan · « **Reply #10 on:** 28 Jun 2011, 04:47 pm »

Quote from: trackball02 on 28 Jun 2011, 01:52 am

I Greyhound....were you able to make a direct comparison between the solid state and the hybrid versions?

Thanks, Jay

Jay, I was able to compare all three DAC's at Frank's and in my home. Keep in mind that these were not the new Vision DAC's.

Here's my assessment of all 3 DAC's. The SS DAC has a more forward sound with the most bass and punch. The all tube DAC had the most warmth, good air and depth but less bass and less high end resolution. The hybrid Ultra was the best of both the SS and tube DAC's. It had the best resolution, air, transparency, with nice tight bass (although not as punchy as the SS). There was much more detail compared to the other 2, high frequncies were more natural and sounded the best. If I had to rate them the Hybrid Ultra was #1, the Tube #2, and the SS #3.

The other benefit of going with the Hybrid or Tube DAC's is the fact you can dramatically change the sound with tube rolling.

I hope this helps some,

Larry

trackball02 · « **Reply #11 on:** 29 Jun 2011, 03:58 am »

Thanks for everyone's comments, especially Larry's comments. It looks like the Hybrid DAC is the way to go.

I'm intrigued by tube rolling and wondering how much can one change the sound. I would not even know where to start as far at what tubes to try, etc. I guess I can try rolling on my AvaStar. I'm running the stock tubes. not even sure how to open the case to get at them.

I have not tried venturing into music servers. I'm on a PC not a MAC. I think I'll first try a SqueezeBox Touch as a starter after I get the DAC.

I.Greyhound Fan · « **Reply #12 on:** 29 Jun 2011, 04:23 am »

Trackball, this post may help answer your questions about tube rolling- http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=84682.0

Tubes can make a huge change in sound. It is definetly hit and miss when tube rolling. In my system the stock 6CG7 Electro Harmonix tubes sounded too bright (they sounded great in Frank's sytem paired with his Salk HTR-3 speakers, but I am using a SS amp and Magnepan 1.6 speakers) so I tried a few different tubes till I found the ones that suited my system and tastes.

My advice to you is get the DAC, live with it for 100hrs of play time or so and then do some critical listening and see what you do and do not like about the sound of your system. Then consider tube rolling.

pardales · « **Reply #13 on:** 29 Jun 2011, 04:02 pm »

The recommendation to live with the DAC "as is" for at least 100 hours is a good one. You don't have to tube roll. I have owned tube equipment many times and generally stuck with tubes that the manufacturer recommended (be they new production or NOS). Never been much of a tube roller myself. I'll go with the tubes Franks sends with the unit.

Just to clarify, I am not against tube rolling, just not my cup o tea.

rajacat · « **Reply #14 on:** 29 Jun 2011, 06:13 pm »

I think that the option to roll tubes is a big asset. I have the AVA T7 preamp. and rolled some Mullards in to replace the stock EH 12AT7's and noticed an increase in the width and depth of the sound-field and less harshness in the upper frequencies.

Based on this experience, I would probably prefer the hybrid DAC although I've heard neither DAC therefore my opinion is not based on direct experience.

trackball02 · « **Reply #15 on:** 30 Jun 2011, 01:12 am »

Larry, thanks for the link. I am really impressed by your detailed analysis and experience.Tube rolling sounds like fun but also somewhat challenging as a newbie, especially if I get the Hybrid DAC and have tubes in my preamp and amp. Infinite choices and combinations! It seems like the Ultavalve tubes are the most accessible to swap. With the DAC and preamp, the cover needs to be removed before swapping. Is it OK to run these units without the cover in order to facilitate tube rolling? And which tube in this system will change the sound quality the most?

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #16 on:** 30 Jun 2011, 01:26 am »

Quote from: trackball02 on 30 Jun 2011, 01:12 am

Is it OK to run these units without the cover in order to facilitate tube rolling? And which tube in this system will change the sound quality the most?

Yes.

The dac first and the preamp second.

Listens2tubes · « **Reply #17 on:** 30 Jun 2011, 02:47 am »

Quote from: Big Red Machine on 30 Jun 2011, 01:26 am

Yes.

The dac first and the preamp second.

I run my T8 sans cover.

How can you find the right tubes for a DAC while playing thru a preamp that needs tube optimization? It's a catch 22.

martyo · « **Reply #18 on:** 30 Jun 2011, 08:31 am »

I don't run any stock tubes in my 550, T8, or Ultra DAC. I just use the covers but without ALL the screws.

I.Greyhound Fan · « **Reply #19 on:** 30 Jun 2011, 04:03 pm »

Quote from: martyo on 30 Jun 2011, 08:31 am

I don't run any stock tubes in my 550, T8, or Ultra DAC. I just use the covers but without ALL the screws.

Same here. You don't need the screws to hold the cover in place.

Hey Martyo, did you ever do the Mosfet upgrade to your DAC? I'm going to bring mine over to Frank's in Sept. for the upgrade as a BDay present to myself. The upgrade to my preamp really smoothed out the high frequency and improved the bass.