[DaveNote]

[quote author=DaveNote link=topic=95921.msg1013742#msg1013
Here's my ultimate take on the LCD2s and the Lyr. I gave away my Sennheiser HD800s and Grace Designs m902 - both significantly more expensive - and kept the LCD2s and Lyr, even though the Lyr, in my system, has a very distinct hum (that can be heard when no track in playing - Schitt tested it and found no hum) and is irritating because it makes me think that the unit could sound even better.

Dave
[/quote] This past week I discovered that changing tubes has reduced the Lyr hum by orders of magnitude, although the tubes that hum badly sound better.

[pataburd]

To be honest, I'm on the verge of selling mine.  They seem to lack 3-dimensionality, and the spatial/ambient queues just seem lacking.  I will not argue about superior levels of detail and bass response, but there is something about them that lacks "naturalness" in terms of dimensionality.

[DaveNote]

To be honest, I'm on the verge of selling mine.  They seem to lack 3-dimensionality, and the spatial/ambient queues just seem lacking.  I will not argue about superior levels of detail and bass response, but there is something about them that lacks "naturalness" in terms of dimensionality.

I assume you're thinking of selling your LCD-2s. I've found that just about all audio decisions are about personal preferences, and I agree entirely that you should find the headphones that match your preferences. In my case, I dumped very good headphones in favour of the LCD-2s. Different strokes for different folks.

Dave

[saisunil]

Here's another thread on HE-500 ...
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=101471.msg1025629#msg1025629

Two very interesting headphones - very similar (both are high fidelity) but very different presentations ...

If you are after 3-D / air - you can't go wrong with HE-500 - what you lose is warmth and bass of LCD-2 and you won't lose any money after selling your LCD2s if you were to buy the HE-500s new ...

I have both - you are welcome to compare them if you are in NYC ...
Heck I may even mail them to you if you pay shipping both sides ...

In other words do listen to HE-500s ... you could buy them from headphone.com with 30 days return policy ...
Or buy them used on head-fi.org
The burn-in on these phones is a killer - at least 50 hours for HE-500s and 200 hours for LCD-2 ...
Burn-in is material science not placebo ...
Cheers

[DaveNote]

Here's another thread on HE-500 ...
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=101471.msg1025629#msg1025629

Two very interesting headphones - very similar (both are high fidelity) but very different presentations ...

If you are after 3-D / air - you can't go wrong with HE-500 - what you lose is warmth and bass of LCD-2 and you won't lose any money after selling your LCD2s if you were to buy the HE-500s new ...

I have both - you are welcome to compare them if you are in NYC ...
Heck I may even mail them to you if you pay shipping both sides ...

In other words do listen to HE-500s ... you could buy them from headphone.com with 30 days return policy ...
Or buy them used on head-fi.org
The burn-in on these phones is a killer - at least 50 hours for HE-500s and 200 hours for LCD-2 ...
Burn-in is material science not placebo ...
Cheers

Interesting point you make about the LCD-2 burn-in. Some people swear burn-in especially with headphones is a myth. I simply don't know. On the other hand, I would swear that my LCD-2s are getting better in exactly the area that I have felt them to be the weakest - high frequency rendering of cymbals.

Dave

[saisunil]

A fellow audio buddy borrowed LCD2 and HE500 from me and here are his impressions:


"I really liked the LCD-2 despite their weight.  The HE-500 is very good too, but there is an ease and wholeness about LCD-2s that is very beguiling. They made my hankering for Stax go away, which is saying something. "

[DaveNote]

A fellow audio buddy borrowed LCD2 and HE500 from me and here are his impressions:


"I really liked the LCD-2 despite their weight.  The HE-500 is very good too, but there is an ease and wholeness about LCD-2s that is very beguiling. They made my hankering for Stax go away, which is saying something. "

I like my LCD-2s so much my interest in the LCD-3s has waned because I fear I might not like them as much.

Dave

[ajzepp]

I like the fact that these are designed and manufactured in the good ol' USA....

[saisunil]

Wait till you read the review on LCD3s ... may be your should not read the review ... desire is a bad thing 

skylab considers it the best headphone in the world - even better than his R10

http://www.head-fi.org/t/578219/review-audeze-lcd-3-planar-magnetic-headphones

[danska]

I've been extremely happy with my LCD-2/Lyr combo thus far. I came from using a Maxxed Woo Audio WA6/HD-650 set-up and feel like the LCD-2 does everything better than the HD650.

After attending a local head-fi meet here last weekend, I'm really happy with the performance level that these cans can achieve with the Lyr. Sure there are $3k amps that sound better, I'm not sure that level of performance dictates the cost, however. For that amount of money I'd rather get better sources and a lot more music to listen to. My Woo has now been sold and it was a much more expensive amp than the Lyr, it just didn't have enough current to really drive the LCD-2 with any authority.

For those looking for a real 3-D experience with cans, I'm still not convinced they can provide it like speakers can. Sure they can come close (the Eddie Current BA and Liquid Fire) but they still seem to be missing the element of real defined space.

[DaveNote]

I've been extremely happy with my LCD-2/Lyr combo thus far. I came from using a Maxxed Woo Audio WA6/HD-650 set-up and feel like the LCD-2 does everything better than the HD650.

After attending a local head-fi meet here last weekend, I'm really happy with the performance level that these cans can achieve with the Lyr. Sure there are $3k amps that sound better, I'm not sure that level of performance dictates the cost, however. For that amount of money I'd rather get better sources and a lot more music to listen to. My Woo has now been sold and it was a much more expensive amp than the Lyr, it just didn't have enough current to really drive the LCD-2 with any authority.

For those looking for a real 3-D experience with cans, I'm still not convinced they can provide it like speakers can. Sure they can come close (the Eddie Current BA and Liquid Fire) but they still seem to be missing the element of real defined space.

My LCD-2 sounds good on my Lyr, but I discovered this week that this headphone sounds better to my ear on vintage equipment. The Pioneer SX980 I bought this week makes the LCD-2 sound even better. While retaining the great bass and body that I hear on the LCD-2 with the Lyr, the SX980 adds air, transparency, and better detail, a more prounouced high end, and most of all, slam. I doubt that I'll be using the Lyr much, if at all, in the future.

Dave

[Russell Dawkins]

I have never heard imaging from headphones that matched good speakers properly set up, even when the headphone amp had some sort of delayed crossfeed to simulate the speaker experience.
I bought AKG K1000s years ago in the hopes they would do it, but nope!

[DaveNote]

I have never heard imaging from headphones that matched good speakers properly set up, even when the headphone amp had some sort of delayed crossfeed to simulate the speaker experience.
I bought AKG K1000s years ago in the hopes they would do it, but nope!

Russell, there is no disagreement that there is no comparison between a good speaker setup and good headphones. I own a very good speaker system and think it is terrific. Headphones clearly don't do the same thing. But the headphone experience is a different kind of listening. More intimate, and sometimes more detailed. When listening to headphones, if you expect them to sound like speakers, you're bound to be disappointed. But it is like many other things in life. If you eat Italian food expecting it to taste like Thai, you're never going to like it. To enjoy headphones, you have to listen to them in their own terms. I think that this is why this is a headphone circle rather than being a speaker circle.

And I hope you will agree that it is possible to love both Italian food and Thai food, to enjoy jazz and classical. It is, in fact, possible to enjoy speakers and headphones. Just don't ask one to sound like the other.

Dave

[Russell Dawkins]

I love headphones, too - always have - and certainly they are a godsend for a music lover on a budget.
I love and have had a lot of different types of good if not the very best over the years including the Yamaha HP1s and the original Grado top model in 1992 - I can't remember the model number but it cost around $1000 and had polarity switches on each earcup.

I was just agreeing with danska's last sentence.

I record for a living and would never trust a final mix on headphones, although they might be handy for spotlighting some detail that most speakers miss. I remember hearing a recording done by Peter McGrath with Schoeps main and spot microphones and being aware that the violin sound was by far the best I had ever heard, and had as a result been duly impressed with Schoeps. Then I listened to the same recording with my Harbeth HLP3s which completely missed the quality. In fact if I had heard this only on the Harbeths I would not have noticed anything particularly outstanding. The earphones were Etymotic Research ER4S's - they replaced my Grados due to their more informative bass end.

But I digress - sorry.

[DaveNote]

I love headphones, too - always have - and certainly they are a godsend for a music lover on a budget.
I love and have had a lot of different types of good if not the very best over the years including the Yamaha HP1s and the original Grado top model in 1992 - I can't remember the model number but it cost around $1000 and had polarity switches on each earcup.

I was just agreeing with danska's last sentence.

I record for a living and would never trust a final mix on headphones, although they might be handy for spotlighting some detail that most speakers miss. I remember hearing a recording done by Peter McGrath with Schoeps main and spot microphones and being aware that the violin sound was by far the best I had ever heard, and had as a result been duly impressed with Schoeps. Then I listened to the same recording with my Harbeth HLP3s which completely missed the quality. In fact if I had heard this only on the Harbeths I would not have noticed anything particularly outstanding. The earphones were Etymotic Research ER4S's - they replaced my Grados due to their more informative bass end.

But I digress - sorry.

Russell, I'm sorry, I believe I misunderstood the point of your message.

I believe the top Grado model you had may have been the RS-1. I owned them for many years, but rarely used them. On a whim, I bought the Sennheiser HD800 when they came out, and didn't listen much to them, even though I also bought at the same time a Grace Designs m902 headphone ame with a DAC. From that point on I couldn't stand the Grado - too harsh, unfocused to my ear.

Then I bought the LCD-2, and then the Lyr. Now I regularly listen to my headphones, because like you, I learned, finally after so many years owning good ones, how good the headphone experience can be.

Given your job, you might be interested to know that I gave away the RS-1, the HD800, and the Grace. The recipient was a young fellow doing pro work. I found I really don't enjoy wondering which gear to use, so all my choices were irritating. The Grace and HD800 were great pieces of gear, but after the LCD-2, they sounded too cold and analytical once, after so many years, I discovered that headphones could have the warm and intimate sound of the LCD-2. On the other hand I guessed that they would be wonderful for pro work. The young fellow agreed entirely and has found his product is much better using this equipment.

Then I discovered the Pioneer. I don't care for owning tubed equipment, and this old SS gear gives me a sound somewhere between the openness and clarity of the Grace and the greater warmth of the Lyr without its hum and the hassle of tubes.

BTW, I do understand that pro audio people don't depend solely on headphones. I realize they also need to use speakers, and often in studio situations these are near field speakers.

Dave

[Russell Dawkins]

For those looking for a real 3-D experience with cans, I'm still not convinced they can provide it like speakers can. Sure they can come close (the Eddie Current BA and Liquid Fire) but they still seem to be missing the element of real defined space.

In perusing the Grado website to try to find a model number I came across this. This might well span the divide between headphone and speaker listening literally if not actually!

from this page: http://www.gradolabs.com/page_tour.php

I present 64 Grado headphone elements in 2 line arrays!

(early prototype)












this caption accompanied these pictures:
"This is a set of prototype speakers in the listening room. Each line array has 32 headphone drivers and a solid mahogany enclosure. They were an absolute joy to listen to and the subwoofers in the corners are made by Grado as well."

[DaveNote]

In perusing the Grado website to try to find a model number I came across this. This might well span the divide between headphone and speaker listening literally if not actually!

from this page: http://www.gradolabs.com/page_tour.php

I present 64 Grado headphone elements in 2 line arrays!

(early prototype)












this caption accompanied these pictures:
"This is a set of prototype speakers in the listening room. Each line array has 32 headphone drivers and a solid mahogany enclosure. They were an absolute joy to listen to and the subwoofers in the corners are made by Grado as well."

Hasn't Audeze done this with LCD-2 drivers?

Dave

[ajzepp]

LOL, I wanna hear those Grado speakers!!

[dBel84]

Dave, Audeze designed a new driver for their array. I got to hear them at RMAF , wonderful experience..dB

[DaveNote]

Dave, Audeze designed a new driver for their array. I got to hear them at RMAF , wonderful experience..dB

Thanks, dB. Do they sound like Magnapans?

Dave