[jermmd]

After losing power for four days because of the storm last week (starting on the day I loaded the fridge and freezer from shopping at Costco), I have decided I need a generator. My friends with portable home generators all-and I mean 100%-say get the expensive Generac that goes on automatically rather than the portable model. I really only need the water pump, the furnace, and the refrigerator to be on but internet, telephone, garage door opener, stereo, lights, and gasoline pump would be great. I think I can live without AC for a few days. I have a propane tank (for pool heating, BBQ, and stove), so gas line for the generator won't be a problem. We lose power occasionally for a couple of minutes or hours but days is relatively rare. These are what I'm looking at:
Hitachi E71 13HP 7100 Watt Generator with Honda Motor
Generac Guardian Series 5875 20,000 Watt Air-Cooled Liquid Propane/Natural Gas Powered Standby Generator With Transfer Switch
Generac QuietSource Series QT02224 22,000 Watt Liquid Cooled Propane/Natural Gas Powered Standby Generator Without Transfer Switch

Does anyone know anything about this stuff? Is it worth spending big bucks for something that will only be used for a couple of hours a year except in rare circumstances? How much power do I really need and is portability important? Is the expensive water cooled Generac worth twice the price of the air cooled model?

I can afford all of the options but I don't piss away money and I love a bargain.

Thanks,

Joe M.

[wgscott]

We have a Honda, which are generally rated the best.  It came with our house, and although we lose power frequently in the winter, and last winter was exceptional, we only ran it 2 or 3 times.  Unless you have expensive tropical fish or something, it probably is more of a luxury item.

I don't believe the power is "clean" enough for an audio system, so I never use mine when the generator is on.

If we do lose power for an extended period, I turn the thing on for the well pump, etc, have everyone take showers, etc., and then turn it off again.  One that comes on automatically I think is overkill. I don't need to burn gasoline at 3 am while everyone sleeps.

If I need internet, I can just plug my wireless thingies into a 12 V battery with an inverter and use my laptop.

[mfsoa]

This may be so obvious, but it wasn't to me and I messed up when I bought my Honda generator-

Our house was already wired with a subpanel so that the generator can plug right in. On this panel is the water pump which runs at 220V (is it 240?). But I got a 120V generator so the one thing you really want in a pwr failure, running water, I can't do .  (we have a wood stove so heat is not so critical)

Dad says that it's really bad for the pump to be getting 120V so I flip that pair of breakers if I need to run the house on the gen. At least the refrig works.

I do use the generator for other things, like supplying music for the company picnic every year. (How many of us are "The Audio Guy" at work, huh? ) or remote power for electric tools for hedge trimming.

-Mike

[wywires]

I had a Yamaha gasoline powered, portable one. I used it several times and it seemed to have no trouble powering everything in the house including the Krell KSA 250 I had at the time.

[JLM]

Two options:  whole house and smaller.

I'm in the same boat (we lose power maybe 5 times a years for 20 minutes to 20 hours) out here in the country.  We had a 30 amp 120/240 volt connector mounted on the outside of the house with a plate added to the main panel to ensure we're always on either utility or generator, never both.  We heat with propane and could run the fireplace in case of loss of power. 

Not sure if wifey, even with constant training, could handle a smaller one.  And I'm nearing retirement and will need heart surgery (a when not if question), so don't know if I could in the future either.  And running short on juice (having too much on a too small generator is a great way to burn out fan/compressor motors). 

As I work with hospitals/nursing homes that are required to have emergency generators I contacted one of the better companies.  They straight away directed me against the whole house idea (they thought it was a waste)  Anyway, figure about 1 HP per 1,000 watts.  Besides I'm a great one for making a mountain out of a mole hill.  So I did nothing for years.

Smaller is the survival option.  It should be sized to handle the well pump (typically 5,000 watts).  For infrequent use this should be fine, but requires someone who can set it up, pull start it, keeping fuel on hand, and continually switch between well pump, frig/freezer, furnace, etc.

Whole house is the luxury option, unless you're unable to do the setup, fuel, switching stuff.   For infrequent use, air cooled is fine.  Look for weekly automatic runs (to make sure it's working) and automatic transfer switching (on and off) as utility power goes and comes back on.  Look too for options like intelligent load shedding that allows for a smaller generator.  And figure on getting annual servicing.  Shop by the installer.

Well, just a couple of weeks ago I found out someone had donated a 10 HP, 5,000 watt Generac that didn't run to our church for scrape.  One of our guys easily got it running and offered it to anyone at the church who wanted it.  I finally jumped on it, so for $400 I'll get it tuned up with new plug, large fuel tank, wheels, and 20 ft cord.  And the church will get $300 after what the guy put into it.

[jermmd]

Thanks guys. I very much doubt that my wife could manage the portable unit but it does seem like the most sensible option. The big Generac is really more of a luxury-which doesn't mean I've made up my mind about it. At least the air cooled unit seems adequate for infrequent use. That's half the price of the water cooled unit.

[wgscott]

I have the Honda 6500, which is portable and gasoline.  It has a key ignition, so it isn't a big deal to turn it on, and we have a knife switch so we can put the house on line or on generator.  I also bought a battery tender for the battery, to make sure the ignition works when you need it.

[jermmd]

I have the Honda 6500, which is portable and gasoline.  It has a key ignition, so it isn't a big deal to turn it on, and we have a knife switch so we can put the house on line or on generator.  I also bought a battery tender for the battery, to make sure the ignition works when you need it.

This looks like the way I'll go. The Hitachi I linked above uses a Honda engine and is really good. Is a knife switch the same as a transfer switch? I'll have an electician install one.

Joe

[wgscott]

This looks like the way I'll go. The Hitachi I linked above uses a Honda engine and is really good. Is a knife switch the same as a transfer switch? I'll have an electician install one.

Joe

Probably.  Yours probably possesses the additional merit of legality.

[wgscott]

I just looked at your links.  The main disadvantage of what I have vs. those is no enclosure.  Ours is in the garage.   

[spudco]

I am going against the group here...  I would recommend a whole house set up on automatic transfer.  It is almost never a good time to mess around with electricity when a power outage occurs.  Rain - ice storm - fire - darkness...  And often a major outage can last over a week.

If you go with a smaller generator, no hot water, not enough power for multiple refrigerators and freezers.  No central heat or air.  When a bad outage occurs, it is often a function of a major bad event.  Dealing with limited electricity in a chaotic world is just too much.

A large home installation will cost upwards to $10K but should last many many years. 

We have a large propane tank, but I would go with a diesel model generator and install a separate tank (with off road/no taxed diesel).  I would also go with a water cooled unit - less loud.

Our local electric coop offers a free consultation to size and price an installation using good installers and reliable hardware.  You electric utility may also offer that service.

[wgscott]

I should clarify what ours does and doesn't have to do:

1.  Our hot water and heat (apart from the blower) is not electric.
2.  It handles our well pump without issue
3.  I turn off our hot tub as a precaution, but when it is on, it handles that as well as the rest of the house.
4.  We are gone much of the day if it is a workday, and the kids will be in school, so something that comes on while we are asleep or out just wastes fuel.
5.  We also don't tap into our propane supply but instead use gasoline.  The idea of a generator depleting the propane we would need for heat and hot water is worrisome.  If I did opt for a propane generator, I would make sure it had its own fuel tank.
6.  It is inside our garage, and I can turn it on and off with relative comfort.  Also, we live in costal central california, with snow only rarely.

[TheChairGuy]

Good timing on this question for me, too.

If I can broaden the OP's questions....anyone know anything about solar generators?

We might be $40Billion in hock in Cali....but we've got 250 mostly sunny days in NorCal and probably closer to 300 days in SOCAL.  We can make good use of a solar generator...and maybe miss the $5 a gallon gas days ahead.

The solar generators I've seen thus far that can power something more than one blender are in the USD$1500 range....too pricey I think.

Thx, John

[wgscott]

As far as I know, a "solar generator" basically will charge a 12 V car battery over a period of days, and then you have a charged car battery when you need it, which is better than nothing.

We live in the Santa Crud mountains and got a solar system installed last year by Real Goods Solar, who I would recommend, if you are interested in that.  Here is our system:

http://www.tinyurl.com/wgsolar

[mikeeastman]

Don´t know what you mean by solar generator? do you mean solar panels? I been living off the grid for 20 yrs and designing and installing systems for 18 yrs and I would strongly disagree with wgscott on Real Goods they would be the last company I would deal with ,highly over price and the owner is just a hustler trying to make a buck IMHO.

  Mike 

[Phil A]

I left a spot when I did the landscaping on the side where the AC units are for a generator.  I looked at some things but I'm holding off and hoping this comes sooner than later - http://www.fastcompany.com/100/2010/20/kr-sridhar

[wgscott]

Don´t know what you mean by solar generator? do you mean solar panels? I been living off the grid for 20 yrs and designing and installing systems for 18 yrs and I would strongly disagree with wgscott on Real Goods they would be the last company I would deal with ,highly over price and the owner is just a hustler trying to make a buck IMHO.

  Mike

I'm sorry to hear that.  Our experience was completely positive, and the installation was performed on-time, without flaw, and slightly under-cost.  We got multiple quotes but actually had a very hard time getting competitors even to show up, and one guy (who was contracted by Home Depot) showed up, just sneered at our electrical system, pretended to make some measurements, and then drove off in his Lexus, never to be heard from again.  This in the midst of a recession with regional unemployment above 10%.

[Wayner]

The "instant on" permanent generators, like the Generac and Coleman models usually require a gas source (natural or LP), a permanent foundation, a huge contact relay before your electrical panel and all the wiring needed to get things from one spot to another. The contactor has to be large enough to disconnect the house's mains and insert the standby generator.

I'm betting that when all is said and done, the bill will be over $10,000. However, it will be almost instant on, if there is a power failure and there would be nothing for the home owner to disconnect or reconnect as this is all automated.

A portable generator is an inexpensive option, but say you loose power during a storm, you will be out there getting the generator going, running a cord into the house and plugging in the most vital things like the fridge, sump pump and some lights. Wattage can get sucked up quickly so you should base your generator's size on the total wattage requirements, and add at least 20% for turn on current inrush demands. Also, running a generator in a garage that is connected to the house invites carbon monoxide into the dwelling and is not a good idea, so that means the generator should have a spot outdoors, preferably out of the elements.

Wayner 

[wgscott]

Yeah, definitely vent it to the outside.   Ours is permanently wired into the house, so all we have to do is turn it on and throw a switch. Basically, it needs to go into a 240V (assuming you get that kind of generator).

Our garage is detached, but you still need to vent it.  I know, because the previous owner did not, and if you hit your head and pass out after turning it on in the garage, it's all over.

My summer project is to follow my own advice and vent it properly.

[django11]

A portable generator is an inexpensive option, but say you loose power during a storm, you will be out there getting the generator going, running a cord into the house and plugging in the most vital things like the fridge, sump pump and some lights.

This always seems to be the case.  Out there in the dark at 10 o'clock with the rain coming down on you trying to figure out which way is on for the gas shut off valve ,   removing the air filter and spraying some SureStart stuff into the carburetor and then pulling the crank again and again until the bleeding thing starts...  Works fine once it's started and plugged in though.