[OzarkTom]

$15,495

Ouch! I guess that rules those babies out.

[James Romeyn]

Ray,
Cost is one of several reasons I chose Ncore over Aksa. 

Two Aksa NAKSA 100 channels (two Aksa boards, one transformer, chassis) cost $2k+, same as 3x Ncore amps + 3x SMPS600.  I estimate about $4500 for 3x Aksa mono mono blocks.     

But if I had three NAKSA 100s sitting here now I'd be happy and would never directly compare another amp unless I had money to upgrade. 

Ncore my be my final amps.  Suitable high-performance amps have been the worst thorn in my audiophile journey.  If Ncore achieves even a good percent of its promised performance it is the biggest audiophile bargain of all time, and will make its place in audiophile history.         

[Rclark]

Yeah one definitely gets the sense of a turning point with these. I just hope those ahead of me can document their builds really well and take clear pictures. I've built crossovers, but monoblocks in a chassis will be more than a little intimidating.

[medium jim]

  If Ncore achieves even a good percent of its promised performance it is the biggest audiophile bargain of all time, and will make its place in audiophile history.         

The operative word is "If"

Jim

[JDUBS]

I'm holding out for the next generation of class-d amps.  Supposed to be the end-all, be-all...from what I hear.   

-Jim

[James Romeyn]

The operative word is "If"

Jim

Yes, absolutely. 

Beyond the posted user notes, my friend who visits Europe regularly for business, owns the Naksa 100 in my use now.  He's heard this system and I'm familiar with his preferences (former owner $100k/pr Dynaudio Evidence Master, two Plinius SA250W Mk3 pure class A in mono mode, dCS $50k+ three-box with external clock...btw, he says, and I'm sure I'd agree because I've heard the Plinius SA250 Mk3 over 100x and owned the SA50, the Naksa 100 annihilates his two Plinius 250W, which are estimate 500W in mono mode as he used them). 

He just purchased Guido (OO-doh) Tent's Tent Labs Hypex-based amp (tube input/transformer coupler, bypasses Hypex OEM input stage...Guido is friends with Bruno, both ex-Philips employees IIRC).  Earlier my friend did direct A-B with the Naksa 100 and he preferred the Tent Labs amp by "30%" (similar attributes only more).  Guido is principal at Grimm Audio where he already designed a powered Ncore speaker.  In phone conversation Guido expressed high praise for Ncore when I mentioned it.

I'm also very familiar with Atma-Sphere OTL, having helped setup at CES many times, and having heard it in my room.  Two A-S OTL owners already expressed their preference in direct A-B, one OTL owner also owner of highly regarded SS class A amps.

I have never in my life spent money like this sound-unheard.               

[guest1632]

Ray,
Cost is one of several reasons I chose Ncore over Aksa. 

Two Aksa NAKSA 100 channels (two Aksa boards, one transformer, chassis) cost $2k+, same as 3x Ncore amps + 3x SMPS600.  I estimate about $4500 for 3x Aksa mono mono blocks.     

But if I had three NAKSA 100s sitting here now I'd be happy and would never directly compare another amp unless I had money to upgrade. 

Ncore my be my final amps.  Suitable high-performance amps have been the worst thorn in my audiophile journey.  If Ncore achieves even a good percent of its promised performance it is the biggest audiophile bargain of all time, and will make its place in audiophile history.         

Hi james, I was somehow under the impression that you already had a Naksa 100 amp. If that be the case, I think you should have no trouble selling it if! the Ncore is better than the Naksa. Of course, Hugh does make better amps than the Naksa, at unfortunately much higher price. So this will be interesting to watch.

Ray Bronk

[James Romeyn]

Ray,
Yes, I've got one stereo Naksa 100, and it's awesome, fantastic.  Being a Trinaural devote, I need three amp channels. 

I have a 3-ch 120W YBA-designed Audio Refinement Multi-3 with a few barely-invasive upgrades. 

You probably missed my earlier notes: in stereo the Naksa wipes the floor with YBA, steals/eats YBA's lunch, dates YBA's sister against YBAs wishes, etc...yet, Trinaural is so much superior to stereo, that I much prefer Trinaural-YBA L/C/R over Naksa-stereo L/R (Trinaural bypassed). 

There are three identical monitors across the front (actually six, two per channel, in a unique ambiance array about which I will post images and describe after I finish the stands) + four distributed sub array.  Stereo input/10-speaker 3.1 output!  Whoopee! 

Interestingly, for reasons about which I can only speculate, in Trinaural, Naksa-center/YBA L-R is almost unlistenable, while conversely, Naksa L-R/YBA center works very well, much better than YBA L/C/R.  Go figure.     

[medium jim]

I had a Fisher Tube receiver back in the 70's that I rescued from a Pawn Shop in City of Torrance, CA that had a center channel.  It was pretty fun...I had a pair of JBL L100's with the center channel being a JBL L66. 

For the life of me, I cannot recall the model designation...

Jim

[guest1632]

Ray,
Yes, I've got one stereo Naksa 100, and it's awesome, fantastic.  Being a Trinaural devote, I need three amp channels. 

I have a 3-ch 120W YBA-designed Audio Refinement Multi-3 with a few barely-invasive upgrades. 

You probably missed my earlier notes: in stereo the Naksa wipes the floor with YBA, steals/eats YBA's lunch, dates YBA's sister against YBAs wishes, etc...yet, Trinaural is so much superior to stereo, that I much prefer Trinaural-YBA L/C/R over Naksa-stereo L/R (Trinaural bypassed). 

There are three identical monitors across the front (actually six, two per channel, in a unique ambiance array about which I will post images and describe after I finish the stands) + four distributed sub array.  Stereo input/10-speaker 3.1 output!  Whoopee! 

Interestingly, for reasons about which I can only speculate, in Trinaural, Naksa-center/YBA L-R is almost unlistenable, while conversely, Naksa L-R/YBA center works very well, much better than YBA L/C/R.  Go figure.   

Hi James,

Well, not to far off topic here, but that might be a question to delve in to with Hugh. Never heard of trinaural. I've heard of binaural. I think someone did some work with that in the late .70's and early .80's without to much success. Anyhow, back to Hypex. Yes, I did read your earlier post about having three Naksas. We should have a discussion about the trinaural stuff somewhere else.

Ray Bronk

[guest1632]

I had a Fisher Tube receiver back in the 70's that I rescued from a Pawn Shop in City of Torrance, CA that had a center channel.  It was pretty fun...I had a pair of JBL L100's with the center channel being a JBL L66. 

For the life of me, I cannot recall the model designation...

Jim

Hi Jim,

Gee, in the .70's and until they went out of business, I used to hang around Dimentions In Stereo there in the old town mall. Ike Goldman had a lot of patents regarding a way a speaker was built, with Don Fric and mark and Lauren. oh well, those were some good and bad old days. Sorry to be off topic.

I was a few years ago gonna get some Hypex amps, but the input was flawed. Its weakness like the earlier digital stuff was its highend. Plus the power supply was to slow to really do that amp justice. i'm glad the new ones seems to have solved that problem.

Ray Bronk

[medium jim]

Hi Ray:

The Pawn Shop was in old Torrance, the Olde Time Mall is on Hawthorne Blvd.  I used to go to a Stereo Store right across from Gable House Bowl, also in Torrance.  There was also Pacific Stereo and University Stereo.

I too apologize for straying off topic!

Jim

[Phil]

I have never in my life spent money like this sound-unheard.             

Funny.  I've done the same thing.  And sold my usual amp as well.   
This weird behavior has been based, in part, upon my experience with a little ICE 125ASX2 amp.  Having owned a much earlier class D amp, the ICE convinced me class D in general has turned a corner.  Of course, the best implementations of ICE include custom input stages and power regulation.  No one seems to say that the ICE can stand on its own to reach an audiophile standard. 

On the other hand, that is exactly what folks are saying about the Ncore.  That got my attention.  And they are comparing it with some very nice amps.  If you chat with these folks they will say things like "my buddy has an xxxx (amp I could never afford) and he just bought the Ncore after hearing mine."  And "I had a xxx (amp known to cause euphoria in audiophiles) and the Ncore just replaced it." 

So, yes, do be cautious and wait for the reports to come in.  That only makes sense.  But let the early adopters do their thing in the face of logic.   

Phil

[James Romeyn]

Pacific Stereo...ADS L1030 and Braun equivalent...to die for back in the day. 

[Rclark]

Funny.  I've done the same thing.  And sold my usual amp as well.   
This weird behavior has been based, in part, upon my experience with a little ICE 125ASX2 amp.  Having owned a much earlier class D amp, the ICE convinced me class D in general has turned a corner.  Of course, the best implementations of ICE include custom input stages and power regulation.  No one seems to say that the ICE can stand on its own to reach an audiophile standard. 

On the other hand, that is exactly what folks are saying about the Ncore.  That got my attention.  And they are comparing it with some very nice amps.  If you chat with these folks they will say things like "my buddy has an xxxx (amp I could never afford) and he just bought the Ncore after hearing mine."  And "I had a xxx (amp known to cause euphoria in audiophiles) and the Ncore just replaced it." 

So, yes, do be cautious and wait for the reports to come in.  That only makes sense.  But let the early adopters do their thing in the face of logic.   

Phil

 Are there not always early adopters for anything and are they always wrong? The only reason I see to be skeptical about these Ncores is if you have a spent a lot of money on amps, especially recently. Because now you are permanently locked in. They might say skepticism, I would say denial.

 Clearly, if you've read what's available so far, including that thread, and the now several credible user reports, it is not hard to draw the conclusion that these are what they are.

 I honestly feel very bad for people with very expensive amps, and for whom money is a critical issue, because as word continues to get out about these, and it is reasonable to assume that reviews will continue to be in the same vein, those people will not be able to re-sell their old amps for anything close to what they think they should get. Give it six months.

 It's pretty painless for me, I'm moving up from a Virtue Two. But certain others commenting here, sure, they're skeptical as hell. I'm skeptical as to whether they realize it's very likely possible their $10,000 amps just became a $1000 amps, or less, overnight.

 There is the diy aspect to it, and that is probably somewhat a saving grace.... For the time being at least.

[guest1632]

Here's what Bruno had to say about attenuators. I don't have a clue what he's talking about, others here will.

"A pot as the feedback network around in inverting op amp circuit is the cleanest analogue volume control you can make. One I made with a 9mm car audio pot sounds completely transparent and with a decent op amp distortion is unmeasurable at all useful gain settings. For high input impedance, add an input buffer. For balanced input, make that an instrumentation amp. Actually the input circuit is more difficult to get right (as in "inaudible and unmeasurable") than the volume control section." - post 2939, with discussion and Q & A following.

Hi, Well, how about this idea of the Ncore amp, and choose your design, such as the Optocoupler discussed in the cheap and cheerful circle. Add one of those babies, the amp, a good source, good speeks of your choice, and you're set for life. That system will be hard to beat at any price.

Ray Bronk

[roscoeiii]

Ray,

Check the huge DIY audio thread. Some there think LDRs aren't a great match with the ncore.

[guest1632]

Ray,

Check the huge DIY audio thread. Some there think LDRs aren't a great match with the ncore.

Hello, Ok, i certainly will check the DIY thread. Thanks for the leak.

Ray Bronk

[Occam]

Ray,

Check the huge DIY audio thread. Some there think LDRs aren't a great match with the ncore.

This is true, as those who might not want their system as a 'straight wire with gain' know better than to post their views.

Consider the LDR based attenuators discussed in various threads, both here an AC as well as DIYaudio The subjective comments in both continually describe them as 'transparent'. But to the engineers at DIYaudio, the LDR is anything but a transparent device. Even with a perfect level controlling adjustable power supply, the LDR is an inherently high distortion device. Its immediately eliminated as appropriate for a system representing that 'straight wire with gain' ideal. Sadly, both objectivists and subjectivists use the same terminology, such as 'transparent' referring to system metrics.

Regardsless, the Ncore potentially provides an attractive solution for moderate cost amplification for both the subjectivists and the objectivists. The former can simply provide their subjective preferences via flanking components.

FWIW

[OzarkTom]

Hi, Well, how about this idea of the Ncore amp, and choose your design, such as the Optocoupler discussed in the cheap and cheerful circle. Add one of those babies, the amp, a good source, good speeks of your choice, and you're set for life. That system will be hard to beat at any price.

Ray Bronk

A great sounding Dac that has a built-in preamp would be  a fantastic choice. Two great ones are the Eximus DP-1 and the AMR DP777. With the AMR, you have a remote volume control. The money that is saved on the amps can go towards a nicer Dac.