[Guy 13]

Hi all Audio Circle members,
especially owners of GR Research products.

I did not post much lately, that’s because I did not work on any new projects.
I was also busy with our soon to be under construction 5 floors house and I am on slow mode with the every day 33C+ temperature…

I did additional listening and evaluation of my GR Research V1, V2 and N3.
I am using my N3 without any enclosure, because I am waiting for some money to come in from my home country Canada and then I will be able to give Ruben (Fallen Enclosures) an order to build a N3TL enclosure for me.

Here are my impressions of my set up, after a few hours of listening with various types of music covering the full spectrum of frequencies. (20 to 20Khz.)

I don’t want to say that the V1 is still the winner, because I prefer to say that each speaker has its own strong and weak points and each enclosure as its own tonal timber.
I don’t believe in neutral speakers, because there are too many variables that will change the tone of the speakers.

Here it goes:
The V1 is very natural, good presence, details in the bass.
You won’t be surprised if I tell you that the quality of the recording of the CD is very important.
I now know which of my CDs are well recorded and I try to stick to them for evaluation, even if I prefer some type of music and some musicians on some inferior quality CDs.

Even if you don’t agree with me, I still think that the V2 (Sub section) as better bass, deeper and more impact.
To my liking anyway.
I know some of you won’t agree, therefore, let me say that I prefer the tone of the bass on the V2.
Again, to my liking and I am not talking about the most natural and neutral sound.
I am not looking for the most natural bass, but to me the bass that as more impact and sounds deeper, even it it’s not really deeper compared to the V1.

However, with some type of music the V1 is better and with other type of music it’s the V2 that is superior, not by much, but the little difference is enough to make me prefer the V2.
That’s my opinion, for what it’s worth.
It’s worth more to me than to the others, because I am the one that own and use the speakers.

Now, between the 12” PAudio coaxial and the N3 (Two 5.25 with the Neo 3 tweeter) which one is better?
Again, each one as its own strength.
I do prefer the sound of the N3, because to my ears it as more ambiance, the high frequency details are more pleasant to my ears, however with some vocal CDs it as an edge of thin can sound, (Metallic muffled) but for string instruments, the N3 to me, is better, even if it’s a little more fatiguing.

Of course when the N3 drivers will be in its recommended enclosure the sound will improve, but for now, the sound of the N3 look promising.

The more drivers I listen to, the more difficult it is for me to tell which one is the number one, because each one as its own sound qualities and strengths.

Until next post, be good.

Guy 13















 
   

[Guy 13]

Hi (Again) all Audio Circle members.
This morning I drag my wife in front of my V1, V2 and N3 to make her help me with my speakers evaluation and/or to have a second opinion.
With different types of music, most of the time, she prefrered the V1, however, with instrumentals and strings, she said the N3 had a bit more presence, but was a little more agressive...
She said the V1 mids and highs were more relaxing.
I agreed with her, however, my preferences vary with the type of music played.
If you agree or not, I still think some speakers are better at reproducing some type of music.
Guy 13.
 

[tesseract]

Lobing issues, front/back cancellation... so many issues here.

As long as you are having fun.   

[srb]

Lobing issues, front/back cancellation... so many issues here.

Beyond using the N3 drivers boxless and baffleless (which is enough in itself), the 6 mounting holes on the woofers and the 8 mounting holes on the tweeter are there for a reason - to keep the driver themselves from moving.  By using only one mounting screw, they are just "flapping in the breeze".
 
I understand this is a temporary setup, but how can you make any kinds of comparisons with other speakers?
 
Steve

[minisq]

Beyond using the N3 drivers boxless and baffleless (which is enough in itself), the 6 mounting holes on the woofers and the 8 mounting holes on the tweeter are there for a reason - to keep the driver themselves from moving.  By using only one mounting screw, they are just "flapping in the breeze".
 
I understand this is a temporary setup, but how can you make any kinds of comparisons with other speakers?
 
Steve

not to mention that as a L+R i believe the N3 is designed to be vertical, and not horizontal. but it does give me the idea of building an N3 with 1/2" clear acrylic

[Guy 13]

Lobing issues, front/back cancellation... so many issues here.

As long as you are having fun.   

Hi tesseract and all Audio Circle members.
Excuse my limited English language knowledge (I am a French Canadian) but I would like to know the meaning of : lobing ? (Lobing issues...)
I am quite aware of the effect of front/back cancellation, but I have no time and no wood to make any kind of enclosure or baffle.
This experimentation even if it's to you completely useless, it gives me something to do in my rare spare times and a peak at what to expect.
I was not born yesterday, therfore I know that what I did is far from being perfect.
Would you please tell me what are the other issues, because you mentioned : << so many issues here. >>
Waiting for more constructive comments.
Guy 13

[Guy 13]

Beyond using the N3 drivers boxless and baffleless (which is enough in itself), the 6 mounting holes on the woofers and the 8 mounting holes on the tweeter are there for a reason - to keep the driver themselves from moving.  By using only one mounting screw, they are just "flapping in the breeze".
 
I understand this is a temporary setup, but how can you make any kinds of comparisons with other speakers?
 
Steve

Hi srb and all Audio Circle members.
Wow, I thought the holes all around the drivers were there for decoration or maybe to poke some flashing LED in the holes to focus your eyes on the drivers. (LOL)

Flapping in the breeze, as you wrote, to me is a little exagerated...
I know that if I secure the drivers with all the necessary screws it will improve the sound and the performances of the drivers, but that was not the idea behind this project, evaluation, funny experimentation...

This set up is not even temporary, it only a one day set-up, as I write this topic, the N3 drivers are back in their boxes waiting patiently for me to get some money to be sent to Rubben...

With this set up, I cannot make a serious comparasion, but it's only to have fun and to have a slight idea of what to expect.

Come on you guys, do everything have to be done by the book ?

Have a nice day.
Guy 13.

[Guy 13]

not to mention that as a L+R i believe the N3 is designed to be vertical, and not horizontal. but it does give me the idea of building an N3 with 1/2" clear acrylic

Hi minisq and all Audio Circle members.
Vertical or horizontal, don't think it makes much difference for a short not too serious evaluation.

Good... My topic gave you an idea.
I don't need more, my topic was not useless and a waste of time. (LOL)

Have a nice day.
Guy 13

[minisq]

Hi minisq and all Audio Circle members.
Vertical or horizontal, don't think it makes much difference for a short not too serious evaluation.

Good... My topic gave you an idea.
I don't need more, my topic was not useless and a waste of time. (LOL)

Have a nice day.
Guy 13

Go Bruins!!!

[Guy 13]

Hi all Audio Circle members.
I would like to say thank you to all the Audio Circle members that have given me compliments on the construction and good look of my V1 and my red V2 sub and the skeleton N3.
I spent time making them look nice and I see that many of you appreciate my work, even if you don't mention it in writting.
It always appreciate your comments, even if they are sarcastics... (LOL)
Thanks again.
Guy 13

[Danny Richie]

Hey Guy,

I know you are having fun, but I don't think you have really gotten to hear the full capabilities yet of any of these designs.

This statement here:

Even if you don’t agree with me, I still think that the V2 (Sub section) as better bass, deeper and more impact.
To my liking anyway.

makes me thing that you still don't have the servo subs hooked up correctly. They will play considerably lower than the woofers in the V-2 and have at least twice as much impact if not three times the impact capability.

So I am not sure those are either hooked up properly or not working properly.

Plus those wheels could be allowing nearly half the output to be gone at some frequency ranges. And that could be what is eating up some of the bass.

And playing the N3's like that will give you a 4 or 5db peak near 1kHz that might sound terribly bright.

So don't be discouraged from your fun, but I find it hard for you to make comparisons of those models at this time.

[Guy 13]

Hey Guy,

I know you are having fun, but I don't think you have really gotten to hear the full capabilities yet of any of these designs.

This statement here:  makes me thing that you still don't have the servo subs hooked up correctly. They will play considerably lower than the woofers in the V-2 and have at least twice as much impact if not three times the impact capability.

So I am not sure those are either hooked up properly or not working properly.

Plus those wheels could be allowing nearly half the output to be gone at some frequency ranges. And that could be what is eating up some of the bass.

And playing the N3's like that will give you a 4 or 5db peak near 1kHz that might sound terribly bright.

So don't be discouraged from your fun, but I find it hard for you to make comparisons of those models at this time.

Hi Danny and all Audio Circle members.

Yes, I know that I have not heard yet the full potential of the
V1, V2 and N3.

I've checked the wiring of the servos several times on my V1, maybe I did it already five times, if it's still not wired properly,
I don't know what to do other than rip off all the wires and do it again.
I don't feel like doing that right now,
but maybe later I will have no choice and do it.

There you go again with the wheels thing ! (LOL)
When I move all my speakers in my acoustically treated listening room of our new castle, I will install the heavy duty spikes.
That should solve one weakness of my V1 and V2.

I am very anxious to listen to the N3 drivers in their enclosures,
however,
the money that I am supposed to get from Canada is taking forever to reach my Vietnamese bank account.
I hope that Rubben is as anxious as I am to start the building of my
N3TL enclosures, however,  look as if he got work over his head.

O.K. I made a mistake by using the word << comparaison >> I should have wrote that I just wanted to have fun without jumping to any conclusions.

Toward the end of this year, hopefully I will have my acoustically treated listening room, I will have heavy duty spikes on all my enclosures,
I will have the enclosures for the N3TL and I will check and re-check the wiring of my V1 servo.

I was wondering if I could mount the two servo drivers the same way, not in opposit direction ? That might make the wiring simpler for me.
Thanks for your opinion, you have a pleasant way of sharing with my your opinion and a friendly non sarcastic way of sharing with me your experience and knowledge, unfortunately, I cannot say the same thing for all the Audio Circle members.
Audio Circle members, don't take the above personnaly.

Have a nice day.
Guy 13 

[tesseract]

Hi tesseract and all Audio Circle members.
Excuse my limited English language knowledge (I am a French Canadian) but I would like to know the meaning of : lobing ? (Lobing issues...)
I am quite aware of the effect of front/back cancellation, but I have no time and no wood to make any kind of enclosure or baffle.
This experimentation even if it's to you completely useless, it gives me something to do in my rare spare times and a peak at what to expect.
I was not born yesterday, therfore I know that what I did is far from being perfect.
Would you please tell me what are the other issues, because you mentioned : << so many issues here. >>
Waiting for more constructive comments.
Guy 13

Sorry, I don't mean to be condescending. The "so many issues" have been addressed, I only touched on two of them... there are so many!   

I also wanted to point out that no conclusions can be drawn from this listening session, but you are a smart Guy 13, you know this already. Just have fun, man. And don't push those N3 drivers too hard, they need a box to load them.

Lobing, in short, is a destructive interference between drivers that you don't want. I would never lay an N3 on it's side, but it is done, you are not the only one. Get some boxes and go vertical.

[S Clark]

Come on you guys, do everything have to be done by the book ?

Have a nice day.
Guy 13.

To answer your question, YES! you need to build these "by the book" if you are going to call them V1, V2, and N3. What you have is a randomly amateurish version of three very successful designs.  It's your money and you can do with it what you want.  Mount them in sheet metal if you want, but your speakers are not the GR-Research V1, V2, or N3.  Sorry for the rant, but so many of us have told you as politely as we can that your changes have negative effects on these designs.

[Guy 13]

To answer your question, YES! you need to build these "by the book" if you are going to call them V1, V2, and N3. What you have is a randomly amateurish version of three very successful designs.  It's your money and you can do with it what you want.  Mount them in sheet metal if you want, but your speakers are not the GR-Research V1, V2, or N3.  Sorry for the rant, but so many of us have told you as politely as we can that your changes have negative effects on these designs.

Hi Mister Clark and all Audio Circle members.

Well, I will build them at 90% by the book and I will call them Audio 13 model:
H212S and H212E.
(H = H Frame, S = Servo, E = Eminence, 212 = 2 X 12")

Amateurish you say ! My V1 are built according to the book, the only difference is the wood cosmetic.

The basic of the V1 is not different from Danny's original design,
it's even better, because I have at many places doubble wood thichness.

As for the N3, it's only a test I wanted to do, is there an Audio Law against that?

You guys are way to serious about this hobby, you are almost fanatics and extremists.
Excuse my rude words, but that's what I think and again, is there an Audio law against writing what we think?

Therefore, until I have my acousticaly treated audio listening room toward the end of this year, I will have fun with my version of the GR Research V1 and V2 called Guy 13 model H212S and H212E OB speakers and please don't spoil my fun, please... Try to be more understanding and friendly like Danny. Mr. Danny is a gentlemen when it comes to sharing his opinion with me.
By the way, I am not complaining about the performances of my GR Research speakers, I am only sharing my thoughts and experiences with the Audio Circle members, can't you see that ? 

Have a nice day Mr. Clark.
Smile, it's contagious...

Guy 13.
P.S.
Have you noticed the title of my topic?
V1, V2 and N3 all good.
Does that look like complaining to you ?

[S Clark]

Good luck to you with your Audio 13 business and I hope your modifications work well for you.

[Guy 13]

Good luck to you with your Audio 13 business and I hope your modifications work well for you.

Hi Clark and all Audio Circle members.
Thanks for wishing me good luck with my future Audio 13 business.
By the time, Ruben build the enclosure for Audio 13, maybe by then,
only the name will have change from GR Research to Audio 13 all the other items will be the same...
Guy 13

[Rclark]

Guy 13 I live for your threads. Will Audio13 be for sale in the US? You could get a booth adjacent to the GR room at RMAF.


 

[Guy 13]

Guy 13 I live for your threads. Will Audio13 be for sale in the US? You could get a booth adjacent to the GR room at RMAF.


 

Hi Clark and all Audio Circle members.
Audio 13 products will only be sold in Vietnam.

After our five story castle construction is completed and we have move in,
I will start my Audio 13 business in that building, however, one or two years later I will be returning to my home country Canada to celebrate my 65th birthday and continue my Audio 13 business as a business to keep me busy during my semi retirement. My full retirement should be when I reach the age of 75. Well, O.K., when I am 70.

I might participate at the exhibition << Son & Image Show>> in Montreal
and if someone in USA is interested in buying my audio products, I will export.

By the way, instead of me going to the USA, how about if Danny (GR Research) comes to Montreal for the Son & Image show ? Or even better, he could send me a pair of V1 and I could/would be is distributor. ? ? ?

Have a nice day.

Guy 13