[rollo]

  Any owners out there ? If Maggies or Apogee float your boat these IMO area must hear. Several models with real bass down to 20, 22 amd 24 hz model dependant.
  My new reference for true ribbon panels. Maggie 3As graced our home for many years until the Pipedreams came along. Now after hearing two generations of the Analysis I'm hooked. Saving my pennies. info@analysisaudiousa.com   Check them out.



charles

[SteveFord]

I just read a couple reviews on them - which model are you getting?  Lots of pennies for the big ones.

[Ericus Rex]

I've heard the Amphitryons.  They were quite expensive but did sound pretty good.  And I'm generally not a panel speaker fan.  It is unfortunate that they look just like Apogees though.

[rollo]

  It would be the Omegas first choice and the Epsilon second. Pushing for the Omegas. They are 86db. Now amps being considered are GM70 based SETs [ 50W] or my AR DR250Servo Mk2 [ 240W/ch triode]  a Bryston 28B or Plinius.
  What a day for a daydream eh !!


charles

[Val]

I have heard the Omegas in shows and liked them. For whatever it's worth, there is an unflattering review of them in the June 2011 issue of Hi-Fi News & Record Review. Among other things, they are very low in sensitivity at 79.7dB (however, their being a line source will make them more sensitive than the measurement suggests); their frequency response rolls off toward the treble by about 15dB referenced to 200Hz, the minimum in their graph. Paul Miller recommends them for jazz, folk and classical, but not at all for rock and, although they are easy to drive, to power them with as big an amplifier as you can afford. Sound quality result is 70%, very low.

I wonder if, after the initial impression is gone, their mellowness and limited maximum output will satisfy in the long run and with all kinds of music. For American audiophiles, the superb new Magnepan 3.7 and the coming top of the line (MG22?) are tough competition at this time.

[josh358]

Their frequency response rolls off toward the treble by about 15dB referenced to 200Hz, the minimum in their graph.

That's bizarre. Could there be something wrong with the measurement, as in not accounting for nearfield dipole bass reinforcement? As in Stereophile's erroneous measurement of the Magnepan MG 3.6, with its fictitious bass boost:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/magnepan-magneplanar-mg36r-loudspeaker-measurements

It just seems hard to believe that a manufacturer could get things so wrong.

[Val]

I don't think there's anything bizarre in the HFN&RR measurements. I had Apogee Duettas many years ago and they had a resonance at low frequencies that I dampened following Martin Colloms' advice, covering the lower back of the woofer with a towel. I think the Omega's bump at low frequencies is typical of planar speakers, and it doesn't sound as bad as it measures. That's not the problem. For example, I also subscribe to Hi-Fi World and they reviewed the Martin Logan CLX in July 2009. Their measurements show a broad hump from about 60Hz to 400Hz, but it sounded OK, and the rest of the frequency response all the way to 20kHz was very flat. The Omega's 15dB rolloff from upper bass to treble is different, and that is why I say it could be a problem in the long run because it may eventually sound too mellow and boring. I remember my Duettas being a bit like that, although the purity, huge soundstage, depth and openness helped diminish the downsides. No speaker is perfect, you just have to live with the compromises.

[josh358]

Check out these letters that were written in response to the MG 3.6 response measurement I mentioned above:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/magnepan-magneplanar-mg36r-loudspeaker-more-comments

Planar woofers are intentionally underdamped to compensate for 6 dB/octave dipole cancellation. For that reason, nearfield measurements don't provide an accurate indication of the frequency response at the listener's ears.

[Val]

I agree with the letters you linked to. Please read my last post again:

"I think the Omega's bump at low frequencies is typical of planar speakers, and it doesn't sound as bad as it measures. That's not the problem."

The Omega's problem is the steep rolloff of the treble ribbon compared to the bass driver, and the fact that the very low sensitivity precludes any significant equalization to compensate for it, unless you want to risk burning the tweeter ribbon.

Val

[rollo]

  Having actually heard the speakers  in two homes with three different amps I can clearly state the speaker does NOT roll off anything. We played Classical, Jazz and Rock with zero issues. The amps were Lamm Hybrid, Joule Electra  Rite of Passage and Dehav. GM70.
  Apogees for example are lean in character compared to the Analysis. The Analysis bass is deeper, better focused with slam factor. There are no Hi Fi artifacts Piano and Violin come through as natural as I've heard from a stero. Organ a la Joey Defrancesco is deep full and dynamic.
  Thy are just alive sounding.


charles
   

[rollo]

That's bizarre. Could there be something wrong with the measurement, as in not accounting for nearfield dipole bass reinforcement? As in Stereophile's erroneous measurement of the Magnepan MG 3.6, with its fictitious bass boost:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/magnepan-magneplanar-mg36r-loudspeaker-measurements

It just seems hard to believe that a manufacturer could get things so wrong.

 Good calll Josh, the measurements were flawed and conducted improperly. The reviewre did the same for the Maggies.


charles

[rollo]

I agree with the letters you linked to. Please read my last post again:

"I think the Omega's bump at low frequencies is typical of planar speakers, and it doesn't sound as bad as it measures. That's not the problem."

The Omega's problem is the steep rolloff of the treble ribbon compared to the bass driver, and the fact that the very low sensitivity precludes any significant equalization to compensate for it, unless you want to risk burning the tweeter ribbon.

 They do not roll off a thing. The review was flawed and conducted improperly. The Omega's are the most coherent, seemless, weighted speaker with real life presence I have ever heard.
  have you heard them in someones home ?


charles

[Val]

Any reviewer worth his salt knows about the disparity between a planar's low frequency measurement and its sound. In fact, John Atkinson often refers to an exaggeration in box speakers low frequencies due to the measurement method.

I said before that I only listened to the Omegas a couple of times under show conditions, and I liked what I heard. If you like the sound under controlled conditions, just buy the product.

[tdangelo]

I have the Amphitryon and love them. 

[Rclark]

Can you describe them some? This planar stuff is all new to me. They look great! And how much were they?

[flintstone]

We have a member of the Apogee speaker users forum that owns Analysis and Apogee. He did a review for us a while back and compared them to his Apogee.

If I recall correctly.....he liked some things about his new Analysis speakers better, but he liked some things about his Apogee better also. If you search the "old" Apogee forum you can probably find his review (I don't recall the details all that well).

For the record: I'm a long time Duetta Signature owner (I also had MiniGrands).....the Duetta Sigs do 28hz and then roll off in my fairly large room.


Dave

[flintstone]

I found the review........http://www.audioworld.com/sw/Forum1/HTML/006548.html


Dave