Me and my system

jeffreybehr · « **on:** 23 May 2011, 07:34 pm »

First, I'm 67, happily retired (since age 54!), married with 2 adult children and 2 grandchildren, live in Phoenix, have been an audiofool since my teenage years, LOVE Romantic-period Classical music and big-orchestra film music. I hear LOTS of real ( = real people playing in real spaces) music. I love naturalness, spaciousness, transparency, full-rangedness, and a bit of warmth in my reproduced music. Pin-point imaging and high dynamic range are not required for me to enjoy reproduced music. I haven't owned a recordplayer since the '80s and love multichannel SACDs played by an Oppo '83SE. Also, I do NOT consider myself to be a Golden-Eared Audiofile, but I am indeed a musiclover and I can hear some differences in equipment. Oh ya...I'm an incorrigible tweak.

System is multichannel (6), built around a solid 2-channel system. Surround channels are diffuse and not specific in location--they're just back there somewhere. I've been evolving my music-reproduction system for about 50 years, and it's never sounded better than it does now.

My source is an Oppo '83SE mutidisc player, 2-channel interconnects are 3 pairs of AQ Niagara (silver conductors), preamp is a 6-channel vacuumtubed c-j MET1 somewhat improved, main poweramps are Monarchy Audio SE-160s somewhat improved, and main speakers are V'steen 5As, slightly improved. Speakercable is evolving.

Centerchannel speaker is a highly improved Eminent Technology LFT-12 with DIY attached stand, while surround speakers are DIY full-rangers in the angled ceiling behind me plus a pair of smaller speakers in parallel and mounted high. Center and surround amps are old Marantz MA-500s, with the center somewhat improved.

My room is 21' wide, 19' deep, and 6.5 to 12' high, with lots of corners NOT at 90 degrees and parallel surfaces much reduced. I rebuilt this room in 1982, and it sounds quite good altho the F-B and L-R bass nodes combine at c. 28Hz.

Here's an early pic with the 5As.

More later, if you can tolerate it.

zybar · « **Reply #1 on:** 23 May 2011, 10:54 pm »

Jeff,

Is this a thread to just discuss your 5A system and setup or should I post my setup in this thread as well?

George

jeffreybehr · « **Reply #2 on:** 23 May 2011, 10:58 pm »

Quote from: zybar on 23 May 2011, 10:54 pm

Jeffrey, Is this a thread to just discuss your 5A system and setup or should I post my setup in this thread as well?
George

No, and yes, pls do. I'd love to see what others are doing.

jeffreybehr · « **Reply #3 on:** 23 May 2011, 11:32 pm »

I've had my 5A crossovers out several times, and a friend drew a rough schematic diagram.

One feeling I had had was reinforced--excellent first-order filters are complicated. I believe that RV has achieved excellent results with medium-quality parts thru a LOT of artful time and effort.

The 3 complexes of filtercaps in series with the tweeter and MR driver* are composed of WIMA polyester- and 'propylene-film caps (on the MR; just 'propylenes on the tweeter), and each of the 3 is bypassed with a very low-value DynamiCap. (I measured 3 of mine at about 750pF, but I certainly could be wrong.) Each of the 3 is battery-biased with c. 28VDC. After deciding fairly early not to modify the x-over piece-meal, after about the 4th time out I replaced the 3 DynamiCaps with 0.1uF SoniCap Platinums.** These caps now have about 250 hours (of 24/7 pinknoise) on them, and I believe I can hear an increase in transparency. Probably that's all I'll do until I decide to completely rebuild the crossovers, and I don't know if I'm up to that big, expensive project.***

BTW the switches, caps, and LOTS of resistors on the small vertical board on the right of my pic are for the rear-firing tweeter.

I started my 5As with inexpensive AQ Rocket88 speakercable, around which I counter-wound a pair of 18g. Neotec OCC-copper conductors about the lo-frequency cable and 23g. OCC-silver about the hi-freq. bundle. It sounds quite good, but last week I received some custom-wound speakercable from Sonic Craft, made with the same Neotec OCC conductors. This weekend I wove a trio of dielectic-bias conductors among the 2 pairs per bundle: I'll post pics soon.

* There are identical complexes of caps in series with the tweeter on both the positive and negative legs.
** Size is a limitation here; if you install the new caps in the same positions as the originals, and there's little room to do otherwise, one is limited to caps with a diameter of about 0.6".
*** Ever price 22uF or 45uF of premium-quality caps?

jeffreybehr · « **Reply #4 on:** 24 May 2011, 08:56 pm »

After feeling that the heavier rears of the 5As, with their single spikes, were a little unstable, I ordered, modified, and installed a SoundOCity spikebar at the rears. I narrowed it 1-3/4", painted it crackle-silver, and screwed it on.

It's supplied with 1/4" capscrews, washers, and inserts, but after installing them I decided to install two 3/8" inserts and screws per cabinet.

(These are the inexpensive spikes and inserts sold by Michael Percy.)

I used a half-inch speedbore-type bit for the insert's hole and even chamfered it a bit, but all 4 inserts screwed in really hard. After seeing how nicely the 3/8" holes (halfway back on the base) that V'steen bored and threaded, if ever I do this again, I'll just drill and tap the holes for 3/8" screws.

Also bought four 1/4"-threaded spikes for the fronts. Currently, all are installed without the pointy ends of the spikes, as I'm still moving the boxes occasionally.

Because my nonlevel concrete slopes down at the front of the room (= back of the speakers), the about-3/4" difference in spike-mounting height (assuming spikes are screwed completely in) keeps my boxes nicely level.

Before I narrowed the bars, the inside edges of the black-rubber nuts were almost an inch from the cabinet's sides.

jeffreybehr · « **Reply #5 on:** 25 May 2011, 03:29 am »

Speakercable is a formula by Sonic Craft's Jeffrey Glowacki that uses the Neotec OCC-conductors-in-Teflon he sells. The lo-frequency cable is 2 pairs of 18g. copper (= 15g.) while the hi-frequency cable is a pair of that copper plus a pair of 23g. silver (= c. 17-1/2g). Each LF bundle is a 4-braid while each HF cable has a core of the twisted 23g. with the 18g. copper counterspiraled around it.

Spades are AQ direct-silver-over-copper.

Then, for a dielectric-bias system ala Audioquest, I wound a couple 24g. conductors among each of the 2 bundles' 4 conductors and a small-diameter magnetwire around the outside of each of the 4 bundles. The pairs of insulated wires are the positive while the outside bare copper is the negative of a 72VDC dielectric-bias system.

I connected all this just today, but it sounds quite good already and will get better with time...and it costs LOTS less than other 5-star-quality speakercable.

jeffreybehr · « **Reply #6 on:** 28 May 2011, 12:40 am »

Here are some room pics.

An old pic from the front looking at the listening position.

The grills of the main surround speakers are barely visible on the angled part of the ceiling.

From the left looking right.

One of the OBLAs that preceded the Audio Physic Avanti IIIs is at the left. Also visible (top-center) on the right side of the beam is the small surround speaker in parallel with the full-range surrounds on the rear wall/ceiling.

From the right looking left.

...and here...

...is another view with the rear-surround-speaker grills off.

zybar · « **Reply #7 on:** 1 Jun 2011, 12:37 am »

Sorry that it has taken me so long to post my system setup, but I was really hoping to have some new pics to go along with the post. Unfortunately, I have been distracted and haven't taken the new pics.

So instead of continuing to wait for the new pics, I decided to get the ball rolling now and add new pics as they are taken. While I don't share Jeffery's gift for describing a system, here is my attempt at it - hope you enjoy it.

The Listening Space + Room Treatments

I am lucky enough to have a dedicated space for my 2 channel setup. I use two rooms (what were the formal living room and formal dining room) on the first floor of 2 story colonial with a fully finished basement. The floors are hardwood and there are a good number of windows and openings. Room measurements are 29'3" x 13'9"/17'6" (first 15'3 of room/second half 14') x 8'. Behind and to the left of the front left speaker the space opens up into two story foyer. To the left of my listening position is a doorway that opens into the kitchen.

I am huge believer in the positive effects of room treatments and have diffusers and absorption panels throughout the room. All of my room treatments are from Realtraps.com and I heartily recommend their products and services.

Here are a few older pics of the room and room treatments:

A Close-up picture of the beautiful Birdseye Maple finish

In terms of the gear that makes the magic, the one constant for roughly the last five years has been the Vandersteen 5A's in the beautiful Birdseye maple finish. I bought these lightly used from a good friend and I am so happy that I did that. While I have experimented with single driver speakers from Omega Speakers and open baffle/active speakers from Emerald Physics, they turned out to just be diversions (although each was excellent in their own way) and couldn't replace the all-around brilliance of the 5A's. To use a baseball analogy - the 5A's are equivalent to a five tool player. They can do everything well and some things exceeding well or world class. Interestingly enough, they can be taken for granted and not fully appreciated in just a single listening session. While they can be impressive during a short audition; the real magic is hearing how the 5A's perform over time and get better and better as I upgrade or better match the associated gear. I'll spend more time on the associated gear in a future post. For now here is a listing of everything that is part of the system:

Digital Source: Modwright Transporter with Bolder Cable 6SN7 Adapters and NOS tubes

Preamp: Atma-Sphere MP-1 MK 3.1 with NOS 6SN7 tubes

Power Amp: Atma-Sphere MA-1 MK 3.1 mono blocks on SRA Platforms with NOS 6SN7 tubes

Speakers: Vandersteen 5A's in Birdseye Maple

Speaker Cables: Morrow Audio SP4 (two independent runs)

Interconnects: Morrow Audio SP6 and SP4 xlr ic's

Power Cables: Kaplan Cable (Conditioner Cords Copper and Rhodium)

Rack: Sistrum SP-4 Platform for the source, preamp, and power conditioning, Sistrum SP-004 for the Uber Buss

Power Conditioning: Pi Audio Uber Buss with Kaplan Cable Copper Cord, Furman IT Ref-20i with Kaplan Cable Copper Cord

Other Components: Speltz Zero Autoformers in Maple - turns a 4ohm speaker into a 8-16 ohm speaker from an amplification perspective.

Stay tuned for my amp journey in regards to the 5A's and how I have what I consider to be a great match in Atma-Sphere amps and preamp.

George

jeffreybehr · « **Reply #8 on:** 1 Jun 2011, 08:07 am »

Looks great, George; TY. Hurry back.

I keep dreaming about OTL amps but never have that much money. Maybe if I save several years' annual-retirement draws?

But then I wouldn't have any play money.

jeffreybehr · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 Jun 2011, 08:52 am »

Just a quickie--I today bought a pair of Atma-Sphere M-60 Mk. 2s upgraded to 3.1s. After just a few hours with them playing music, they sound just fine. More later.

zybar · « **Reply #10 on:** 7 Jun 2011, 11:05 am »

Quote from: jeffreybehr on 7 Jun 2011, 08:52 am

Just a quickie--I today bought a pair of Atma-Sphere M-60 Mk. 3.1s. After just a few hours with them playing music, they sound just fine. More later.

Great amps and congrats on the purchase.

Let us know if they have enough oomph for your listening tastes. When I had a pair of M-60's, I thought that I needed more and moved up to the MA-1's.

BTW, you will get more out of the amps with the 5A's if you use a pair of Speltz Zeros (http://www.zeroimpedance.com/). There is a 45 or 60 day trial period, so you have nothing to lose. I use my Zeros on the 4x setting so that the amps basically see a 16 ohm load.

George

Rob S. · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 Jun 2011, 02:50 pm »

Jeffrey, Nice room, and really really nice looking 5a's. I'm gonna guess the m60's without the auto formers will not do justice to your speakers. you'll get a taste of what Atma Sphere will do but maybe a little closed in sounding and flat. I ran the M60's on a more efficient MTM than the 5a's and I still craved more power ( although part of the problem was my 4ohm load. ) Are the 5a's a 87db/ 8ohm load?

hi5harry · « **Reply #12 on:** 7 Jun 2011, 04:38 pm »

Nice systems guys! I do agree with Zybar's comments. When I was speaker shopping I heard the original 5's and came away without an opinion on the speakers. As I drove home I started to remember just how nice the MUSIC sounded. As I processed the information it dawned on me that every other speaker I auditioned made me think of it and not the music. Then the 5a's came out and I could not resist.
Seeing the pictures of our systems I noted we all set them up about the same width, same distance to the rear wall and listening chair, etc. Most of us are delving into room treatment. We all gravitate to 120watt/channel tube amps. All independently!
I am blessed to have three systems but when I am ready for some jazz or need to get my vinyl fix, the 5a's never disappoint.

mr_bill · « **Reply #13 on:** 7 Jun 2011, 06:24 pm »

Do you have a floor vent powering your speakers?

jeffreybehr · « **Reply #14 on:** 7 Jun 2011, 09:52 pm »

Quote from: mr_bill on 7 Jun 2011, 06:24 pm

Do you have a floor vent powering your speakers?

I don't know what a floor vent would be doing powering the speakers. There are no vents in my concrete floor.

mr_bill · « **Reply #15 on:** 7 Jun 2011, 10:52 pm »

The speaker cables appear to be coming out of the floor vent

BTW, Very nice system - Those Vandy 5s are something else!

jeffreybehr · « **Reply #16 on:** 7 Jun 2011, 11:51 pm »

Quote from: mr_bill on 7 Jun 2011, 10:52 pm

The speaker cables appear to be coming out of the floor vent

BTW, Very nice system - Those Vandy 5s are something else!

No, no floor vents; we don't have such things in the desert. This pic...

...shows all the the speakercable.

Yes indeed the 5As are something else wonderful, and TY.

mr_bill · « **Reply #17 on:** 7 Jun 2011, 11:57 pm »

Oops - not your system Jeff - which is wonderful - hi5harry's speakers cables look like they are coming out of the floor vents.

hi5harry · « **Reply #18 on:** 8 Jun 2011, 12:30 am »

They run from my amps up on top, down under the house , and come up on each side of the vent.

jeffreybehr · « **Reply #19 on:** 11 Jun 2011, 08:39 am »

After 4 days, the Atma-Spere M-60s sound extremely good. They're very clean and smooth and have LOTS more power than I'll ever need. I'm using 4 Tung-Sol roundplates* in the frontend, and those seemed to smooth the sound a bit from that of the Chinese tubes.

I have NO idea of the significance, if any, of the 2 tubes I have that have full-diameter upper micas (the upper-left tube) instead of the ovoid micas with centering brackets. Maybe someone will tell us.

* I accumulated 20 of these when several years ago I had Antique Sound Lab poweramps that used them, and I just kept them instead of selling them. Lucky me.