order new dac without BNC?

Marius · « **on:** 21 May 2011, 05:00 pm »

hi James.,

Almost ready to place an order for the new combo BDP/BDA I'd like to know what the BNC connectors are used for.....All my digital machines either use SPDIF USB Coax or the AESEBU (BDP1). Would it be possible to order a unit with ie 1 more spdif, one more coax? Or 2 more spdif for that matter?

Grtz,
Marius

James Tanner · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 May 2011, 05:32 pm »

Hi Marius,

There is a BNC connector on both the BDA and the BDP so that is one option. The BNC connector is a true 75 ohm connector and with digital signals matching the impedances of the signal path is very important to reduce reflections etc. So I generally recommend AES then BNC if you can and then COAX.

Yes we can do a custom BDA-1 unit for you if you want with more SPDIF COAX rather than BNC - just make sure the dealer orders it that way as a special.

james

klao · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 May 2011, 06:10 pm »

Some digital SPDF cables come with BNC/RCA adapters at both ends, e.g. Black Cat Veloce and Stereolab XV-Ultra. You can google them up.

Marius · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 May 2011, 06:21 pm »

Hi James,

Thank you, to be clear, you receommend the connection between BDA and BDp to be BNC instead of AES/EBU?

srb · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 May 2011, 06:35 pm »

The recommended preference order of connections would be:

1. AES/EBU (110 ohm balanced twisted pair)
2. BNC (75 ohm coaxial cable) (S/PDIF)
3. RCA (75 ohm coaxial cable) (S/PDIF)
4. TOSLINK (Glass or Plastic fiber cable) (S/PDIF)

BNC to RCA adapters like those shown in a post above can also be purchased separately. I would personally be inclined to order a stock BDA-1 and use either a BNC to RCA adapter or a cable with a BNC on one end and an RCA on the other end.

Steve

Marius · « **Reply #5 on:** 21 May 2011, 07:36 pm »

oh my things are getting difficult now.
I've got a Tv with digital spdif out, BCD-1 (whats the digital output to go into the Bda?) , Marantz 7004 spdif out, cable box spdif out and BDP-1 (Aes or BNC), and all of them need to go to the BDA-1. A mac-mini and Marantz Bluray UD7006 that all need to go into the BDA-1. Preferably I'd have an option for an extra optical Airport Express (to spdif?)

Please help me to decide which connections would be optimal.

grtz,
Marius

alexone · « **Reply #6 on:** 21 May 2011, 07:48 pm »

Marius,

choose coax and/or bnc over optical. so if you have lots of gear with coax out then leave the BDA-1 as it is and get 2 coax cables and 2 coax/bnc cables. this way you can easily connect up to 4 pieces with the BDA-1.
if you have a source that provides digital xlr then this is the number one choice.
btw, the usb input of the BDA-1 is limited to 48khz/16bit.

hope this helps.

best

,

al.

srb · « **Reply #7 on:** 21 May 2011, 08:14 pm »

You've got a lot of sources!

It's not that the BNC or RCA are totally inferior to the AES/EBU, but if one is splitting hairs, you might use the AES/EBU with the highest quality source that you listen to most frequently (probably the BDP-1 or the BCD-1).

Optical sources usually have higher measureable jitter than the coaxial sources, but certainly good enough for TV, Airport Express, cable box, etc.

So if the BDP-1 is your most frequently listened to source, I would connect

BDP-1: AES/EBU
BCD-1: RCA or BNC
Marantz 7004: RCA or BNC
Marantz UD7006: RCA or BNC
TV: Optical TOSLINK (maybe only option?)
Airport Express: Optical TOSLINK (only option)
Cable Box: RCA or BNC if available, otherwise you are out of inputs
Mac Mini: USB (if 16/48 is adequate)

I am assuming the TV only has an optical output and I don't know whether your cable box has a coaxial as well as optical.

The Mac Mini could be used with the USB input, but you would be limited to 16/48 files. If you need higher resolution your options would be optical for up to 24/96 (but you are out of optical inputs) or a USB to S/PDIF converter (but you may again run out of outputs.

Are you using an antenna for OTA channels on the TV? If not, a TV connection seems redundant with a cable box. If you don't need a TV connection then that would free up an optical port for the cable box.

If you are going to use every source mentioned (including TV) you would have enought inputs (7), IF your cable box has a coaxial AND USB is sufficient for the Mac Mini. If not, you will need an external switcher to add an input or two.

Steve

James Tanner · « **Reply #8 on:** 21 May 2011, 08:30 pm »

Quote from: Marius on 21 May 2011, 06:21 pm

Hi James,

Thank you, to be clear, you receommend the connection between BDA and BDp to be BNC instead of AES/EBU?

No I still prefer the AES EBU if your gear allows for it. AES EBU has twice the voltage swing of the other connectors - is balanced - and the receiving devices really seem to like it!

james

alexone · « **Reply #9 on:** 21 May 2011, 08:37 pm »

Marius,

...talking about limitations like 48/16 via usb or the 'limited' sound and resolution quality of the Mac mini:
simply use a hdd or a usb stick with your favourite songs, play them via the BDP-1 and use a digital 110 ohm xlr cable to connect the player and the external dac. that's it.

al.

Marius · « **Reply #10 on:** 22 May 2011, 09:59 am »

Thank you, all of you!

A lot of sources, well haven't we all nowadays? And whats to come. Who knows. Hope to be complete for the time being.....

Learning from you all, I might have to rephrase my topic starting this thread I believe. AES and the BNC are clear for me now, toslink/optical neccessary for some sources (tv/tvbox/airport) but why then the 2 coaxial RCA? Why not just have 2 more BNC? Is there any quality difference between the 2? I

I could use a slight detour when running out of inputs: the na7004 has 2 inputs and a digital out. anyone has experience with connecting like that? Will the internal Marantz DAC be out of the path or does it still have its influence then.

Greetz!
Marius

Quote from: srb on 21 May 2011, 08:14 pm

You've got a lot of sources!

It's not that the BNC or RCA are totally inferior to the AES/EBU, but if one is splitting hairs, you might use the AES/EBU with the highest quality source that you listen to most frequently (probably the BDP-1 or the BCD-1).

Optical sources usually have higher measureable jitter than the coaxial sources, but certainly good enough for TV, Airport Express, cable box, etc.

So if the BDP-1 is your most frequently listened to source, I would connect

BDP-1: AES/EBU
BCD-1: RCA or BNC
Marantz 7004: RCA or BNC
Marantz UD7006: RCA or BNC
TV: Optical TOSLINK (maybe only option?)
Airport Express: Optical TOSLINK (only option)
Cable Box: RCA or BNC if available, otherwise you are out of inputs
Mac Mini: USB (if 16/48 is adequate)

I am assuming the TV only has an optical output and I don't know whether your cable box has a coaxial as well as optical.

The Mac Mini could be used with the USB input, but you would be limited to 16/48 files. If you need higher resolution your options would be optical for up to 24/96 (but you are out of optical inputs) or a USB to S/PDIF converter (but you may again run out of outputs.

Are you using an antenna for OTA channels on the TV? If not, a TV connection seems redundant with a cable box. If you don't need a TV connection then that would free up an optical port for the cable box.

If you are going to use every source mentioned (including TV) you would have enought inputs (7), IF your cable box has a coaxial AND USB is sufficient for the Mac Mini. If not, you will need an external switcher to add an input or two.

Steve

Marius · « **Reply #11 on:** 22 May 2011, 10:03 am »

O havent thought about that yet, but you are right, have to tackle that too....Will certainly be the way to go thanks. But the Mini is here because of my subscriptio to digitalconcerthall.com the amazing webcast of the Berlin Philharmonic, live concerts and complete archive in HD Sound and Vision. HDMI out into the TV optical Toslink out into DAC?

or should I do otherwise?

Marius

Quote from: Marius on 22 May 2011, 09:59 am

Thank you, all of you!

A lot of sources, well haven't we all nowadays? And whats to come. Who knows. Hope to be complete for the time being.....

Learning from you all, I might have to rephrase my topic starting this thread I believe. AES and the BNC are clear for me now, toslink/optical neccessary for some sources (tv/tvbox/airport) but why then the 2 coaxial RCA? Why not just have 2 more BNC? Is there any quality difference between the 2? I

I could use a slight detour when running out of inputs: the na7004 has 2 inputs and a digital out. anyone has experience with connecting like that? Will the internal Marantz DAC be out of the path or does it still have its influence then.

Greetz!
Marius

srb · « **Reply #12 on:** 22 May 2011, 04:37 pm »

BNC vs RCA: The S/PDIF coaxial spec calls for a 75 ohm cable and connectors. The BNC is a true 75 ohm connector, the RCA is not. There is little benefit using an RCA on one end and a BNC on the other, as you haven't maintained the 75 ohm spec on both connectors, so you could order the BDA-1 custom with all RCA connectors. But as I said earlier, I wouldn't if only to keep the BDA-1 stock (possible future resale or upgrading to a source component that does have BNC). To eliminate BNC to RCA adapters (adapters can never improve a connection, they can only detract), I would just prefer to use two custom BNC-RCA cables.

Marantz NA7004: This could give you an extra optical input (the extra coaxial input wouldn't be of much use for your present source component assortment). Although it will use the internal DAC for these digital inputs at the analog outputs, it is unclear to me if the internal DAC is performing any digital manipulation, like upsampling, at the digital output. I would guess the digital inputs would just be passed through untouched to the digital outputs, but you may want to check with Marantz to be sure.

Mac Mini 16/48 vs. 24/96 and number of optical inputs needed: Now that you have confirmed that your cable box has an optical-only output, if you want to use an Airport Express, even using the extra optical digital input on the NA7004, you would still be one optical input short if you want to use the optical output from the Mac Mini to gain 24/96 capability versus the 16/48 capability of the USB output. Since you will have the BDP-1 for your ultimate quality playback of digital files, I don't really see the need for the MAC Mini to have greater than 16/48 output, and you could use the USB input for it.

Are the NA7004 and Airport Express superfluous?: I'm not sure exactly what capabilities or features the Marantz NA7004 will actually add to the mix, since you have file playback and Internet radio capability with the BDP-1 and also have Internet radio capability with the Mac Mini. I'm also not sure exactly what the Airport Express will do for you, except to add streaming from another computer in the house. If you are using it for another zone location, then you would either be using its analog output or its optical digital output into another DAC.

Steve

Marius · « **Reply #13 on:** 23 May 2011, 07:26 am »

Hi Steve, all,

this is so helpful, thank you for that.
btw, in my initial posting I mentioned SPDIf where I should have mentioned TOSLINK ofcourse, but you already noticed...

commenting on your latest analysis:
Airport Express indeed is superfluous, I forgot that the NA7004 now has Airplay, I only use it tot extend my network. -1 Toslink

NA7004 is also a neat tuner, a very nice networkstreamer, fully DLNA compliant, and I really like to use it , don't know if the Internet radio on the BDP-1 is as userfriendly. I don;t understand yet which machine does the streaming in that setting, I thought the BDP-1 wasn't a streamer. 1 RCA still standing. (and although not a high-end as some other sources, that extra fun and immersiveness (?) of games I can stream through the Ipad to the Bryston-setup is amazing.....)

MAc MIni As I mentioned, I will use it for streaming HD Webcast and do need the digital out on that one, unless my new TV would have a real Internetbrowser that matches the quality of digitalconcerthall.com. I know the Sony's have it built in, but I don't like those tvsets...
As for the cablebox making the tv-out obsolete...well you might have another point there. I mainly got to the necessity of that connection because it does a better job of solving lip-sync problems of some other sources. Found that if I send the tv-digital-out to the dac there is no LipSync problem, where as the cablebox and dvd/Bluray seem to suffer from it, and the settings, if they have them, not always solve the problem. So still the need for that one.

New problem: to keep my system fully balanced on the most important sources, I would have to connect both the BCD-1 and the BDP-1 through AES-EBU. But only 1 input on the BDA-1. James, please comment on that one? Possible to make 2 AES-EBU inputs?

Marius

And then I forgot my game-console digital out.....any thoughts on that?

James Tanner · « **Reply #14 on:** 23 May 2011, 08:36 am »

Hi Marius

It sounds like the BDA does not have all the inputs you need. I do not know of any other Dac though that dose which I could recommend?

James

Marius · « **Reply #15 on:** 23 May 2011, 09:42 am »

Well not too fast on that one, I love my bryston gear and am figureing out how to use its best extent. `could you please comment on the BCD1 and BDA1 connection? Any preference in connecting the 2? AES/EBU or BNC? I have it balanced to the BP26 at the moment and would love to keep it balanced, but only one availabe...

grz,
Marius

James Tanner · « **Reply #16 on:** 23 May 2011, 09:48 am »

Hi Marius,

The AES has twice the voltage swing of the other kinds of connectors and we have found that the receiving devices seem to appreciate that condition. Other than that the BNC comes in a close second.

james

alexone · « **Reply #17 on:** 23 May 2011, 10:51 am »

Marius,

the BCD-1's internal dac is fantastic, don't worry! so connect your BCD and your BDA via analog xlr with the 26 and give the BDP the digital xlr connection with the BDA.

al.

Marius · « **Reply #18 on:** 25 May 2011, 01:56 pm »

Ok James, I believe I'm finally getting there...pff all those options to consider.

what I'm left with is this:
- how would I have to proceed to stream hirez files in 24/192 format to either the dac or bdp (your making it a radioplayer already) from a Mac (being it a Mini, or macbook pro) if not at the moment, the near future will certainly make that possible on the Mac side?

- how to proceed in replacing my existing cd collection to as hi-rez possible files to load into the BDP/BDA combo. through either the MAcMini/Macbook pro, or a dedicated other machine, or a combination of the two?
Keeping in mind that I would like a solution as user-friendly as possible. I have no experience with NAS-devices, so hoping to get some advice on this subject from you all.

the front usb on the BDA-1 is never going to be used I believe?

Thanx in advance once again!

Marius

Anonamemouse · « **Reply #19 on:** 25 May 2011, 02:40 pm »

Quote from: Marius on 25 May 2011, 01:56 pm

- how would I have to proceed to stream hirez files in 24/192 format to either the dac or bdp (your making it a radioplayer already) from a Mac (being it a Mini, or macbook pro) if not at the moment, the near future will certainly make that possible on the Mac side?

You can not stream to the BDP.
The BDA can only be used as an external soundcard to your computer. You will still need to play the files on your computer with some audio playing software on your computer.

Quote from: Marius on 25 May 2011, 01:56 pm

- how to proceed in replacing my existing cd collection to as hi-rez possible files to load into the BDP/BDA combo. through either the MAcMini/Macbook pro, or a dedicated other machine, or a combination of the two?

The easiest software is DbPoweramp. It can also convert any file type to any other file type.
It is completely useless to convert your CD's to a higher resolution than the native one of the CD; 16/44.1. It will only consume lots of drive space, the quality will not improve.

Quote from: Marius on 25 May 2011, 01:56 pm

Keeping in mind that I would like a solution as user-friendly as possible. I have no experience with NAS-devices, so hoping to get some advice on this subject from you all.

It does not get much easier than this I'm afraid.