[jjc1]

   Just received the latest catalog from Audio Advisor. It looks like Kimber is now manuacturing a USB 3.0 Micro B cable.

[jjc1]

Taking a second look, it doesn't appear to be a micro B connector advertised in Audio Advisor.Has anyone come across an audiophile grade USB connector of this type?

[JerryLove]

All non-defective disk readers are 100% accurate (they use oversampling to make sure). Though the Redbook standard allowed for read errors, the technology was taken from the computer industry in the 1990s. There is 0% error (which is to say that oversampling catches any error that may occur and the correct data is handed down the line) and 0 room for improvement in read quality (except perhaps in ability to read through scratched or other defects). The fact that your computer can load a program from a CD and run it tells you that the pit-land read is 100%

Digital signals, until approaching the point of complete failure, don't "get fuzzy". All of the data gets there or none of the data gets there (there are exceptions in very short windows between the two). The fact that your computer can load a program from a USB attached CD and run it tells you that the data is 100% (yes, there is error correction which *may* not be used in PCM audio streams (I'm not sure); but as someone whose spent time looking at the error rates, they approach zero).

Jitter is a timing mismatch. The read windows create margins of error. It is actually this timing issue that effects maximum transmission rates. The needed rate for PCM is about 600MB per hour. The margin of error allows for transfer rates of 625MB per second. It is a non issue while still in the digital domain.

It does not matter how the PCM data gets to your DAC. It could be written on a piece of paper, carried over in a Winabego, typed into a hex editor and then dumped over any connection fast enough to feed data at 600MB per hour. It simply makes no difference.

The first spot where even theory allows for deviation (without something being defective or misused) is in your DAC; where a clock imperfection would affect the frequency output... anyone know what the margin of error is there?

[adprom]

You are kidding right? USB cable differences have as much merit as 'audiophile grade ethernet cables". To anyone who actually understands the science, or designs these systems, the premise is ridiculous.

Simply go and learn about the USB protocol works....

An absolute rort and nothing else.

[adprom]

The first spot where even theory allows for deviation (without something being defective or misused) is in your DAC; where a clock imperfection would affect the frequency output... anyone know what the margin of error is there?

Without a buffer, there is none. However all modern DACs (or nearly all) buffer the PCM signal and reclock them. From memory the tolerance is in the order of microseconds while jitter from most digital sources is in nano seconds - nowhere close to the limit.

[adprom]

I'll entertain this 

There is no free lunch in digital playback .... everything gets amplified. So there are differences between usb cables. At the very least,  significant differences between generic printer style usb cables and ones that are considered to be of higher quality like a belkin.

No, everything does not get amplified. Digital has nothing to do with amplification. It is a discrete signal transfer methodology. There is absolutely no evidence or logic supporting the theory on USB cables making a difference given the protocol being used.

You will always hear people yammer off all the theoretical reasons why data transfered by usb should not sound different. Well it does since your are not transfering data under normal conditions. The data transfered is immediately being amplified in a sound system.

Like the people designing the devices and protocols? What you just said makes absolutely no sense. Data is being transferred under entirely normal conditions - the fact it is amplified is irrelevant. It is still just a signal like anything else.

If you are using decent gear with treated AC you will hear every thing you do in front of that amp and that includes swapping out usb cables.

You'll hear whatever preconceived notions your mind has, through the placebo effect if you are intent on making cable changes and wanting some input of your own in 'tweaking' and changing cables to make a difference.

Scientifically and objectively, the facts don't support that notion. This is the sort of rubbish that leads to people associating 'audiophiles' with nutters.

[srb]

You can even forget about USB PCM data to DAC connections and clocking, as this topic is about the BDP-1 player which doesn't even have a USB output.  The only USB connection on this device is for connection to a hard drive and that transfer is raw data before it even becomes a music stream dependent on timing.
 
Steve

[jjc1]

Gee. Thanks guys for your heartwarming remarks. Maybe your pompous ass attitudes is what makes people think associating with "audiophiles"  is like hanging out with a bunch of pompous a holes!

[JerryLove]

Without a buffer, there is none. However all modern DACs (or nearly all) buffer the PCM signal and reclock them. From memory the tolerance is in the order of microseconds while jitter from most digital sources is in nano seconds - nowhere close to the limit.

Exactly; and if you can hear the pitch change from 100Hz to 100.01Hz then mister; you've got better ears than I do.

(I suspect actually that the accuracy is within nano-seconds these days; it certainly must be on most of the DSPs I work with and I suspect DACs would use commodity hardware... but I cannot say I've investigated it)

You can even forget about USB PCM data to DAC connections and clocking, as this topic is about the BDP-1 player which doesn't even have a USB output. 

Agreed. The only theoretical place where it can affect the output (and again: I state this is theoretical, not a practical concern) is as the analog out on the DAC is trying to construct a waveform. It's using an internal clock to figure out how to construct that wave. If that clock runs fast, then the wave will pitch up; if it runs slow the wave will pitch down.

But the reality is that these clocks are hyper-accurate. I cannot fathom that any deviation from true would be detectable. Indeed: I would be more concerned about the effect of relativity for having your speakers above your ear than the effect of the clock (unless it's defective or very old tech)

[werd]

No, everything does not get amplified. Digital has nothing to do with amplification. It is a discrete signal transfer methodology. There is absolutely no evidence or logic supporting the theory on USB cables making a difference given the protocol being used.

Like the people designing the devices and protocols? What you just said makes absolutely no sense. Data is being transferred under entirely normal conditions - the fact it is amplified is irrelevant. It is still just a signal like anything else.

You'll hear whatever preconceived notions your mind has, through the placebo effect if you are intent on making cable changes and wanting some input of your own in 'tweaking' and changing cables to make a difference.

Scientifically and objectively, the facts don't support that notion. This is the sort of rubbish that leads to people associating 'audiophiles' with nutters.

Took ya a year and a half to come up with that... ?

[adprom]

Took ya a year and a half to come up with that... ?

Rehashed thread, obviously. Doesn't change the response whether it was 18 months ago, now or 18 months in the future.

[werd]

Rehashed thread, obviously. Doesn't change the response whether it was 18 months ago, now or 18 months in the future.

Ok well then I will happily respond to this sometime around June 2014