[SteveFord]

Coming soon, testing about halfway finished.
A really nice addition when set up properly.

[jk@home]

I would be interested to know whether these units can be used to supplement the smaller models, such as my MMGs, as mid-bass drivers.

I feel if the MMG can be rolled off higher (line level wise, or however) than it's rated bass response, there should be an improvement in mid to high frequencies. Physically decoupling the lower bass from the mains should help also. The trick is to find a couple of mid-bass units that blends in with the speaker the best...maybe the DWM?

Magnepan thinks so:
http://www.magnepan.com/DWM_and_DW_1_Woofers

[SteveFord]

As promised, here's the first installment of my Magnepan DWM woofer review.
When this product came out my first thought was that the company had really lost their way and had come out with a product that there wasn't a need for.
If you look at the specs from the page on their website
http://www.magnepan.com/manual_DWM
you'll see that the bass floor isn't very impressive
 
System Description: Planar-magnetic dipole woofer.
Frequency Response: 40-200 Hz*
Recommended Power: See F.A.Q. on web site www.magnepan.com
Sensitivity: 86 dB @2.83V/1 Meter/50 Hz
Impedance: 4 Ohms
Dimensions: 19.25Hx22.5Wx1.25D (inches)
Warranty: Limited 3-year to original owner
Weight: 19 lbs.
*Bass response will vary depending upon placement near walls, cabinet or furniture.
Revision-- 4-4-11
 
and their speakers already go down to 40hz so what good is it?  They need a subwoofer, not this mini Quad looking thing.
 
The indefatiguable Wendell Diller at Magnepan kept telling me you've got to try it, you've got to try it, you've got to try it and, of course, I kept going Nah, Nah, Nah I don't think so.
Curiosity finally got the best of me so I asked Wendell if he could send me a loaner after all.  Wendell said he had an engineering sample at his disposal and agreed.  He is a good man to put up with my rudeness.
A week or so later UPS left #0002 at my doorstep
 



 
and I got in touch with my buddy, Paul Elliot, to have him bring over his ClassD amp and his measuring software to see what the deal is.
At first we hooked it up to my 3.6s and it was just about useless.  I need this because why?
We then took it upstairs and tried it with 1.7s, 1.6s and finally MMGs. 
We set it up roughly in the center of the speakers and forward towards the listener about 14" and with the both the 1.7s and 1.6s it made the sound worse in my room - it just confused the bottom end and made everything sound muddy. 
It was almost wonderful with the MMGs but nothing to get too excited about.  Maybe a real center speaker would be the answer, I thought, not this woofer.  It might work with the Mini Maggie system but not with the bigger boys.
Paul left and I told Wendell that it wasn't the most wonderful thing I ever heard and he asked if I tried the supplied resistors to reduce output?  Well, no....
I poked around a little bit and had a NAD 3020 integrated amp and a Harman Kardon PM640 integrated kicking around so hooked up the NAD to drive the DWM. 
  Note: you DON'T need a lot of power to drive this woofer but you DO need something that's comfortable with driving a 4 Ohm (and possibly lower) load.  The NAD became alarmingly hot in very short order so it was replaced with the Harman Kardon which has no such issues.  I was advised to use solid state for this model, by the way.
I already knew that placing the woofer in front of the speakers sounded like a baby hippo passing gas so I decided to place it inbetween the speakers as before but this time behind them.  After all, that's where I have my little NHT "sub"woofer which operates at roughly the same frequencies as the DWM.
Being a planar, I wanted it out from the wall and got it up off of the floor (and above the amp) by placing it ontop of the NHT sub.  I adjusted the Maggie with the HK's volume knob until the sound blended in with the big speakers (not too loud, not too soft but just right) and plopped down in the listening chair.
 





 
EL PERFECTO! or was I imagining things?  I turned the HK volume all the way down, went back to the chair for about 30 seconds and then turned the HK volume back up.
No, I wasn't imagining things.  I went back and forth for 15 minutes or so adjusting the volume and finally settled on about the 9:30 position for the DWM.
 
Here's what it does: I initially thought that what it did was to fill in the midbass but those who know better told me that I was mistaken:

It doesn't necessarily fill in the midbass. If it is strictly additive, you will get the bloated bass you experienced initially. 
Are you familiar with how mulitple subwoofers are used to smooth the deep bass? This technique applies all the way up to about 200 Hz. You may be getting some filling of holes at your listening seat, however, when the bass seems more "right", you have more linear bass/midbass. 

With such an oddly shaped room to deal with, I have no doubts that there's linearity issues o'plenty.
To my ears it deepened  the soundstage considerably - you get more of a 3D, holographic effect with the DWM. 
I'm told that it's simply because the midbass response is now more linear at my listening position.  It could be - I just know for sure how it sounds.
 
Here's what it doesn't do: it's not a sub and if you position it the wrong place or crank the volume way up on it the imaging, soundstage and bottom end all go south. 
 
Just to experiment, I positioned the DWM closer to me, further away and finally right up against the wall.  I got it right the first time by earbone and by eyeball: 46" behind the speakers, 46" out from the wall. 
That's what worked in the upstairs room, you'll have to try moving it around in your own place until you find what works for you.  You'll know when you have the placement and the volume setting correct as it'll just sound right.  There's no mistaking it when you've got it set up correctly.
I guess if I had to describe it, I'd say that listening to the stereo without the DWM is like losing a finger from your hand - it's not the worst thing that could happen to you but it's better when you have all of your fingers. 
Earlier in this review I mentioned my little NHT "sub"woofer which is currently being used as a DWM riser.  They both bottom out at around 40Hz so for the fun of it I decided to compare the NHT to the Magnepan.  The NHT sounds like a little box going thump thud bump thump by comparison.  The only way I can make the Maggie sound anywhere close to that bad is to stick it right up against the wall.   The Magnepan still sounds better that way.  Maybe if I put a couple of pillows in front of it...
This portion of the review was undertaken using 1.7s; now that I figured out how to set things up this weekend I hope to do some fooling around with 1.6s and MMGs and see what the results are and once that's done, see if I can't manage to get it to integrate with an SVS subwoofer.

[SteveFord]

And for jk@home:
I would be interested to know whether these units can be used to supplement the smaller models, such as my MMGs, as mid-bass drivers. 

From Wendell:
Yes. And it can be used for any model that is in a "hostile" room (as we state on our webpage).
In those case, of course, jk@home would be trying for only additive bass.

From me:
In my case, I think it would be a combination of additive bass and taming a hostile room with the MMGs upstairs.

[jk@home]

Thanks Steve and to Wendell. BTW, I go by johnvb at that other place, so you've already replied to me there.

[SteveFord]

You've given me some ideas for my MMGs - my wife is going to kill me!
Details to follow...
In the meantime, I burned some vinyl to CDs for a friend of mine and decided to play with woofer placement. 
On the floor, centered, close to the wall, back up on the NHT and centered, close to the wall, forward, back - ach!
In the end I preferred it right where it was which is up in the air and pretty much centered.
I guess that the thing to do would be to build a hinged doorway to get the woofer up in the air and then it could just be swung out of the way when not in use.

[jk@home]

Just thinking out loud, the open baffle guys use a program called "The Edge" to determine the best place to mount a woofer on a flat baffle.

And on an older post, over at AA, someone mentioned adding wings to these things, I could see building a custom flattish baffle stand, which would raise up the unit, and maybe improve the performance (along w/ a little EQ).

Seems to me VMPS does something like this with their monitor speakers (to improve the bass).

Sounds like something fun to play with. Going to get me a pair as soon as I can.

[josh358]

The manual recommends that they be placed against a wall. That will effectively extend the baffle. But an open baffle might be better, or an H frame (almost as good). Both would help preserve the dipole pattern to minimize excitation of room modes. Essentially, the larger the baffle, the deeper the bass. If theory and my own experience are any guide, one hazard of wings is that you'll end up with too much boomy midbass, because the speaker resonance is chosen with a certain Fequal in mind. So you'd likely want to size your wings to get the same tonal effect as proximity to a side wall, the configuration for which the speakers appear to have been tuned, or use EQ.

[Davey]

I still don't get it.

Steve, I think your initial take on these is correct.  What good is it for the larger Magnepan models since it's only augmenting an existing frequency range capability they already have.  And it doesn't have enough surface area to provide any appreciable augmentation anyways.  (Your photo with your 1.6's makes that obvious.)

It seems to me these would be applicable for usage only with the small Magnepan models.  (MMGW, MMGC, MC1.)  I don't see the point in using these with MMG's or larger.
To provide bass capabilities to those models you need dipole woofers that cover (well) the bottom two octaves actively crossed with the main speakers.  That also yields the great benefit of steering low bass away from the main panels.

Also, I don't understand your placement experiments.  It would seem you have the unit located in the worst possible location.  A person really should have two of them and they should be placed on the outside of the main speakers against the side walls and in the same plane.

My own system with MMG's straddled with "H"-frame woofers on either side covering the bottom two octaves yields bass performance to match any of the Magnepan models standalone.

Cheers,

Dave.

[rw@cn]

I also don't get it. I've read the material on the web site but I still don't understand it usage with "full" range speakers.

[SteveFord]

For the larger models (such as the 1.6/7s), it seems to me that it's use is more to help with low to mid bass problems caused by oddly shaped rooms such as my upstairs.
I'm not looking for more bass just better sounding low frequencies. 
With both the 1.6 and 1.7s, my wife can't tell the difference unless the woofer is cranked up too high for my tastes.  When it's at the level she prefers I find it to be too boomy so each to their own, I suppose.
Along the wall might be the best placement but if you look at photos of the room it's not really practical.  Two might be better than one but I only have one at my disposal.  I don't really have room for two up there, anyways.
My downstairs room always measures well so I don't think this woofer would be of much (if any) benefit with a larger speaker.  I do have one idea to try with the 3.6s, though.
My MMG experiment is at a temporary standstill as I have to return one MMG to Magnepan as the high end isn't what it ought to be.  That speaker never was quite the same after Fido pissed on it.
Lynda and I experimented with MMG speaker placement some last night in the downstairs system and you might be surprised to see where they ended up sounding the best in that room.  I know that I was.
One thing that I've learned over the years is just how much I don't know.  What I think I know for sure, well, it's a definite maybe.

Lynda (my wife) is not really interested in stereo gear and didn't know which speakers were which when I was swapping stuff around last night.  Here's her take after listening to some remastered Beatles CDs:
1.6s - they sound like the band is right there
1.7s - the guitars aren't as prominent but the sound is more like it's all one piece and more balanced
DMW - take it or leave it but I'm not as fussy as you are.

[rw@cn]

Thanks.

[josh358]

RW, just wanted to add that there's a lot of research on controlling modes in rooms by using multiple subwoofers playing the same bass signal. The idea is that if the subs are properly placed in a symmetrical arrangement, they'll affect certain room modes in opposite ways, and in practice it works quite well, two subs being better than one and four better than two. You could potentially do something like that with the Maggie woofers.

Sounds like it might be worth giving Magnepan a call and asking what they recommend, I found their website as unclear as you did!

[SteveFord]

MMGs don't exactly appreciate being drenched with doggie wee wee so further testing is on hold for a bit while Karen at Magnepan resurrects the old girl.
Anybody want a free dog?  It's dumb as a post but doesn't eat very much.

[Tubo]

I want to revive this thread to relate my positive experience with a DMW woofer, which I have had for about a month (serial number 000030!). First, thank you to Steve Ford for bringing this product to our attention and for his review. Thank you also to everybody who contributed to this thread previously.

I have a Maggie-based home theater. My center channel speaker is an MMG-C, and my left and right speakers are MMG's. My subwoofer is an Epik Valor. My surrounds are Spendor LS3/5A's (because I had them already).

I bought the DWM because the MMG-C center channel speaker is bass-shy and I wanted my three front speakers to be as close to identical as possible. Basically, the MMG-C produces almost nothing below 150Hz. In fact, Audyssey sets the crossover at 150Hz for my center channel. With the DWM woofer paired with the center channel, Audyssey sets the crossover at 60Hz! This makes the MMG-C/DWM combination nearly identical to the MMG's, at least in frequency response.

Music seems fuller, having a greater body and a firm foundation. Bass notes have an additional degree of impact and authority. The acoustical image appears to be more solid and stable and—as Steve Ford noted in his review—deeper. Overall, there appears to be slightly more resolution. All this is due in no small part to the the quickness of the woofer; it can keep up with the MMG’s. They are, after all, made of the same cloth (er... Mylar)! It is a seamless integration.

Moreover, the MMG-C/DWM combo anchor the center with greater firmness and authority. One can listen off axis without having the center of the acoustical image—be it dialogue, music, or sound effects—move to the left or to the right.

One unexpected benefit: dialogue seems to be more intelligible, special in those intimate movie scenes in which actors are whispering and mumbling. AVS member DonH50 wrote in this regard, "There is so much content over such a wide range in the center channel that it really should be full-range, or as near to it as possible. The lower vocal band is supposedly around 300 Hz, with signifcant content down to perhaps 100 - 150 Hz, so it's no surprise to me that adding a woofer makes the sound better and more intelligible."

All in all, a worthwhile purchase!

[globalkiwi]

Thanks for sharing that Tubo.  I was intending to chime into this thread as I think the utility of the DWM has been slightly miscontrued by previous posters - & your post confirmed my thoughts.

I've been thinking about trying something different for my center channel & I have been looking at the CC5 & CCR (which have much narrow frequency ranges than the CC3 for example).  From what I can tell, one major purpose of the DWM is to fill in the mid-bass for these centers (& MMG-C too it seems).  Your experience confirms their utility in this regard.  My only regret is that this means yet another speaker in an already cluttered space!

Where did you position your DWM in relation to your center?

[Tubo]

My center speaker is above my 50-inch TV. I used a custom-made clamp attached to a small off-the-shelf flat-screen mounting arm (which allows for repositioning of the MMG-C). I positioned the DWM below my TV, on the floor. Since the wavelength (about 7.5 feet) of the crossover frequency (about 150 Hz?) is larger than the distance between the MMG-C and the DWM, I figured I would not have any integration problems. It sounds seamless to me.

I am thinking of making a base for the DWM out of butcher block. This base will raise the DWM 3 or 4 inches. Perhaps this will improve the sound, though more likely the change will be barely perceptible. But I think it will look better!

[SteveFord]

This weekend I'm going to try and make time to try the DWM with my MMGs.  I need to find some piano hinges for this project so hopefully the local hardware store will have something suitable.

[SteveFord]

Tubo,
Have you tried raising the DMW off of the floor and putting it around ear level with your MMGC right where it presently is? 
I'm told that you'll have too much of a good thing in that case when mixed with your MMGC.  Would you humor me and give it a shot and let me know what you think?
I don't have an MMGC to play with so am curious as to the results.