[Poultrygeist]

DIY flat-paks aren't very cost effective and even worse when you factor in high shipping charges.

Local cabinet shops are a better bet as they can make all the cuts from a set of plans and many have their own computer controlled cutting/routing CNC machines.

[sebrof]

We were looking at this design today. $250 or so worth of drivers & XO (at retail).

I have at least a 1/2 dozen diy speakers here, that on various levels, would out-perfrm them. None of them would cost near $1000 to execute.

dave

Yeah, DIY is the way to go if you can. I figure I saved about $2K when I built my 2A3 SET as opposed to buying a comparable unit from a manufacturer. But I have an electronics background.
But I don't have the tools, knowledge or woodworking skills (piant, glue, etc.) to build speakers that would sound and LOOK good. I might build 2 that look good, but theyt probably wouldn't look the same
Kinda like suggesting someone DIY a turntable. Lots of money to be saved for sure, but that's beyond my abilities.

[Poultrygeist]

The stock Eminence Legend B102 as used in the Lores cost $89 each on Amazon. No doubt there soon will be DIY plans all over the net to use this excellent guitar speaker in a similar bass reflex design as the Lores/Omens.

I wonder if perhaps an easier DIY design using the B102 without an internal super tweeter would work? One could opt to add the sit-on-top Fostex super tweet if needed sans crossover, ala Madisound's horn kit design.

I've peeked inside the Omens and it's little more than an empty box with a small sheet of dampening material at the bottom. That doesn't mean I don't love their sound any less, it just means there's no magic there to deter DIY.

Dave, how much for an enabled B102?

[sebrof]

The stock Eminence Legend B102 as used in the Lores cost $89 each on Amazon.

The Audax Gold tweeter in the Lore is over $100 each on Madisounds site so not sure how drivers plus XO would come in at $200

[roscoeiii]

Do the Omens not have the foam pyramid that the Souls and Druids use for enhancing bass and minimizing standing waves (if I am recalling their function correctly...)?

[Poultrygeist]

The Omens have a piece foam in the bottom which slopes upwards and covers some of the bottom ports. There's also some batting above the driver.

[sebrof]

Do the Omens not have the foam pyramid that the Souls and Druids use for enhancing bass and minimizing standing waves (if I am recalling their function correctly...)?

Yes it's the ZuRG pyramid. You can see a diagram of it on the Zu website.
Also in the Zu Omen thread in Cheap N Cheerful section of Audiocircle maurisz (sp?) has some pretty good pics of the inside of the Omens.

[CedMan]

I recently build my first pair of flat-pak, cost for the driver and kit aside, my tool has cost me no more than $150, that includes glue, a set of 8 clamps, and couple straight corner clamps, a can of pre stain, a car of stain, some sandpaper, and a small power sander. 

i never done any wood work before in my life.  Taken me 4 evenings of 2 hours not including drying time.

Result was well worth it, I have it sitting next to my Focal speakers and I love the sound from my little DIY compare to my focal.

[planet10]

The Audax Gold tweeter in the Lore is over $100 each on Madisounds site so not sure how drivers plus XO would come in at ~$250

You got me there. I was a $100 shy. I don't pay much attention to domes, i'm not a big fan.

dave

[planet10]

Dave, how much for an enabled B102?

I'd have to do a pair to know for sure, but a typical phase plugged whizzer cone driver is in the neighborhood of an additional $170/pr for the treatment. I'd have to do another phase plug for them (with a minimum run of 50).

Given the big breakup mode between 2 & 4 k (as evidenced by the big dip followed by the big peak), treatment could give a smooth rolloff making XO simplier (and higher). As they are an XO <2k would be called for (right in the worst possible place). A lower XO with a waveguide tweeter (ala Econowave), or a beta 12LTA with a horn tweeter makes more sense to me. I have woofers & drivers (just need waveguides) for the former, and have parts for the latter (including prototype phase plugs)

dave

[planet10]

DIY flat-paks aren't very cost effective and even worse when you factor in high shipping charges.

Less expensive than shipping a finished box. Especially if my campaign to get a locationally diverse set of suppliers to bear fruit. UK & Oz are already working thru startup, and i am in conversation with at least one potential US supplier. If i can get them going with FH3, no reason they couldn't do other stuff.

dave

[roscoeiii]

dave,

why aren't you a fan of domes?

[planet10]

Something about how they sound just isn't right.

dave

[ttan98]

In all fairness though, this assumes you have all the tools and resources on hand to build; factoring in first time costs and time(!) will hit close to that 1k right quick - especially if using your recommended bracing   plus not all of us have access to cheap lumber like it seems you have in your neck of the woods!

That said, yes, for much less than $1k one could DIY one heck of a speaker.

It also assumes the DIYer is good with his/her hands and pay attention to details, otherwise the cabinet would not very nice/professionally finished. The look/finish from my speakers are just adequate but not to the level of a production model or professionally finished. At that level it needs a lot of man hours(a competent woodworker will take half as long) which I am not that willing to spend so much of my time on.

[Poultrygeist]

On my last speaker project ( Frugal Horn Mk3 ) a sheet of  MDF cost $25 at Home Depot while CNC routing for the flat paks came to $75 at a local cabinet shop. The drivers were a little under $100 and with another $50 or so spent for supplies and incidentals the horns would qualify as DIY on the cheap.

While the inexpensive DIY Mk3's lack the outstanding fit and finish of the Omens their performance level is close ( stronger in some areas while weaker in others ).

[rjbond3rd]

...while CNC routing for the flat paks came to $75 at a local cabinet shop...

...Mk3's lack the outstanding fit and finish of the Omens their performance level is close ( stronger in some areas while weaker in others ).

Hi Poultrygeist,

1. What did you have to provide to the CNC people?  A special CAD file?  If so, would you be willing to share?

2. I'm sure people would love to hear more details on these two designs if you have time.  For example, I would imagine imaging is better on the Mk3's because of the narrower baffle?  And maybe the Omen's go somewhat lower?  But those are just guesses and I'd love to know what you found.

[Poultrygeist]

1. I gave the cabinet shop the downloaded 25 Oct 2010 beta document and one sheet of MDF. We discussed the dimensions relative to the 18 mm cut plan and how I wanted each of the 7 pieces to fit together ( there are several options ). I also included the cut out size for the Fostex drivers.

2. The imaging and detail is better with the Mk3 and the sound is more refined while the Omens offer a huge sound stage and a more meaty presentation. The Omen's bass is superior if set up correctly. If not set up right the Omen's bass can be boomy. The Mk3's are more forgiving to room and positioning but can come off a tad thin sounding in comparison depending on the music of choice. The Mk3's offer more finesse but the Omens have all the boisterousness of a live dance hall ( great fun factor for me ). The Mk3's will fill your room with great sound but the Omens will fill your whole house with great sound. I enjoy the Omens from adjoining rooms.

The two can thrive on just a hand full of 2a3 watts.

[roscoeiii]

Poultrygeist,

What did you do on the interior of your DIY speakers? How much did you dampen them, and using what materials and techniques? I am worried about a lack of much dampening keeping my DIY speakers from sounding their best.

[Poultrygeist]

Without straying too far from the original topic, I followed the FH Mk3 beta document damping plan : 1/2 inch of cotton felt glued around the driver compartment with 4.5 oz of poly-fluff in the V chamber adjusting as needed (see pictures in my gallery).

Not all designs require dampening. A well known BL horn maker I know gets great results with none. Trust your ears and experiment with more or less dampening material until you get the sound you like.

The Omens only have batting above the driver and a conical piece of foam in the bottom but I wouldn't want to tinker with their internals as I love the way they sound as is. If you rap your knuckles on the Omen cabs it sounds like a knock on the door whereas the Mk3's sound like you're knocking on a granite kitchen counter top. I believe the Omens are MDF as well but maybe not 3/4 inch.

[planet10]

1. What did you have to provide to the CNC people?  A special CAD file?  If so, would you be willing to share?

I am happy to provide any of the sheets in the plans as bative vectorworks, DWG or DXF files, and possibly some that don't exist yet.

Our CNC operator starts with DXF files and hand tweeks them on the CNC (an Italian one so the actual file not likely useful to many). Our CNC files also optimized for a large run.

The only panels that benefit from CNC are the baffles, and the sides. And if you aren't dadoing the sides or using a driver with a non-circular cutout, CNC set-up time would far exceed the time just to do it.

We have also given consideration to provide a traveling router template for the curved rears.

dave