Need tonearm and cart recomendations.

neobop · « **Reply #40 on:** 9 May 2011, 12:56 am »

I doubt if you could do any better for that kind of money, even used. It's the same mount as a Rega, that was one of the reasons it seemed perfect for Buck.

I'm sure it's a heavy arm. The 750d is a hair shorter and eff mass is 20g. Guys who use the 750 say that with the damping, they can use all kinds of carts that you wouldn't expect. Some are using OC9s and carts like that and say it sounds great. It used to be the same with the MMT. I used to see them with everything but the most compliant carts.

If you have a coil like a Benz or something similar, it would be interesting to compare it to your other arm. You might be surprised. If you have a 103 it will probably win hands down.

I think it's a mistake having a lesser set-up for used records. Once you clean them it won't hurt your stylus even if it mistracks a couple of times. A micro stylus sounds much better with worn records. It will track parts of the groove that probably have never been tracked. You get much more music and less noise. If you need damping fluid Turntable Basics has it for 10 or $15.
Enjoy.
neo

BaMorin · « **Reply #41 on:** 9 May 2011, 09:41 am »

Quote from: Ericus Rex on 8 May 2011, 08:59 pm

Hi Marc,

The arm is actually a 239/222mm arm. See blueprint below. I'm going to use it as the second arm on my Musical Life Symphony table. I have yet to decide if I'll put a mono cartridge on it or my Grado Red (or even the Black I intend to modify) for my 'dumpster diver' records I don't want my expensive stylus touching.

my mistake..................OK, the point of the 'A" is at 239mm. The 250ST has the229mm right at the center front edge.......the Linn Akito has a small hole at 229. Was just showing a quick reference as to where to quick mount the cart/stylus so you spend less time with the protractor.

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #42 on:** 10 May 2011, 03:34 pm »

Quote from: BaMorin on 9 May 2011, 09:41 am

my mistake..................OK, the point of the 'A" is at 239mm. The 250ST has the229mm right at the center front edge.......the Linn Akito has a small hole at 229. Was just showing a quick reference as to where to quick mount the cart/stylus so you spend less time with the protractor.

Got it! Thanks! That would make initial setup a whole lot easier. VE doesn't even have this arm listed in their database. Anyone know of a site that would have more info?

WOW! ~20g eff mass! It sure doesn't look like it'd be that massive from the pics. Maybe Grados wouldn't be a good match. I'll try my Red anyway since Neo mentioned the oil dampening might make seemingly-incompatible matches OK. Thanks for the info on worn records and micro styli. I'm starting to lean toward a true mono cartridge for that arm anyway. Do you have any experience with the Denon 102 mono? Got a Denon dealer in the next town (which, in Massachussetts means 2 miles away!).

BaMorin · « **Reply #43 on:** 10 May 2011, 04:34 pm »

Quote from: Ericus Rex on 10 May 2011, 03:34 pm

Got it! Thanks! That would make initial setup a whole lot easier. VE doesn't even have this arm listed in their database. Anyone know of a site that would have more info?

WOW! ~20g eff mass! It sure doesn't look like it'd be that massive from the pics. Maybe Grados wouldn't be a good match. I'll try my Red anyway since Neo mentioned the oil dampening might make seemingly-incompatible matches OK. Thanks for the info on worn records and micro styli. I'm starting to lean toward a true mono cartridge for that arm anyway. Do you have any experience with the Denon 102 mono? Got a Denon dealer in the next town (which, in Massachussetts means 2 miles away!).

Nope....no....nada....wouldn't try it. The damping may make the amplitude less, But I gotta believe it will still try to jump grooves at low frequency slam notes. Further, every jelco, jelco based arm I've played any Grado in........to me sounds 2 dimentional and no pizzaz

bastlnut · « **Reply #44 on:** 10 May 2011, 06:41 pm »

hallo,

the Denon DL 102 really is not a true mono cartridge.
it was made for the radio industry so it could play stereo records in mono for AM or FM mono broadcast.
better off with a Sonata mono, like i have or a Grado ME+ mono cartridge or the Benz ACE mono cartridge.
i have a Grado The Reference that i am considering trading in for a mono version of the same.

slap a Dynavector XX2 on the Jenco and have some fun.
i have heard this combo and it is really nice....understatement

regards,
bas

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #45 on:** 10 May 2011, 07:08 pm »

Hmmm. Maybe I'm in a pickle now. If I can't use Grados on this Jelco and the Denon is not a good choice for mono cartridges what are the other options, if any, for under $300? Needledoctor is not showing many other options for <$300; just a $90 Ortofon.

I bet that Dynavector sounds awesome! But unfortunately, $2K I haven't. I do have a ZYX R-100 Fuji on an Audiomods Series IV in my 'table's primarly arm position. This Jelco is to be used as a second arm on the table fitted with a mono cartridge.

Thanks! And sorry Andy for hijacking your thread

neobop · « **Reply #46 on:** 10 May 2011, 07:43 pm »

Here -

http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LG&Product_Code=ATMONO3LP&Category_Code=A3

neo

neobop · « **Reply #47 on:** 10 May 2011, 07:59 pm »

I think there might have been some kind of mix-up. The 102 is a true mono cart with 1 coil. It's high output, but likes around 1K loading. ($249)

http://www3.sympatico.ca/murraya/DenonMonoPage.htm

http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LG&Product_Code=DENONDL102&Category_Code=MONOCART

neo

bastlnut · « **Reply #48 on:** 10 May 2011, 08:06 pm »

hallo,

for under $300 i would take the Grado.
the AT is not bad, but it has the typical AT sound and i do not like the exaggerated treble.

you want to get a modern mono cartridge as there are many reissues of mono records to be had and some are cut with a stereo cutting head.
you may want to look at a Tannoy mono vintage cartridge or a GE Variable reluctance mono that will also work with stereo records.

mono is great stuff and you may want to up the budget to really get the best out of your mono records.
it is worth it.
don't go cheap here, i consider it a mistake.

regards,
bas

bastlnut · « **Reply #49 on:** 10 May 2011, 08:11 pm »

Quote from: neobop on 10 May 2011, 07:59 pm

I think there might have been some kind of mix-up. The 102 is a true mono cart with 1 coil. It's high output, but likes around 1K loading. ($249)

http://www3.sympatico.ca/murraya/DenonMonoPage.htm

http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LG&Product_Code=DENONDL102&Category_Code=MONOCART

neo

hallo,

not trying to be respectless, but it is not so easy.
the suspension is for stereo but with a single coil.
the performance is not the same a a real mono cartridge.
you will still have unnecessary additional noise with the Denon.

regards,
bas

buckeyefanandy · « **Reply #50 on:** 11 May 2011, 01:21 am »

I am now down to one of three arms, a Rega 300 rewired, a michell technoarm, or an Origin Live Enconter MkII.

Not sure if the Grado is good for any of these.

dlaloum · « **Reply #51 on:** 11 May 2011, 01:34 am »

with the arms on their own probably not.
But with damping trough in place it should be fine.

SET Man · « **Reply #52 on:** 11 May 2011, 01:52 am »

Quote from: buckeyefanandy on 11 May 2011, 01:21 am

I am now down to one of three arms, a Rega 300 rewired, a michell technoarm, or an Origin Live Enconter MkII.

Not sure if the Grado is good for any of these.

Hey!
I once had lower end Grado cart on RB250 for a while and it works and tracks fine.

The Michell are based on RB250 I think. So, it should be fine with Grado also. Not sure about the Origin, it does looks impressive.

Take care,
Buddy

neobop · « **Reply #53 on:** 11 May 2011, 01:55 am »

Quote from: buckeyefanandy on 11 May 2011, 01:21 am

I am now down to one of three arms, a Rega 300 rewired, a michell technoarm, or an Origin Live Enconter MkII.

Not sure if the Grado is good for any of these.

I would guess that the Michell would be good with the Grado, with or without the damping, probably better with. I think the Encounter is heavier, it's supposed to be a better arm - more for MCs.
neo

dlaloum · « **Reply #54 on:** 11 May 2011, 04:09 am »

"better arm".... hmmm...

To use a series of automotive metaphors.... todays cartridge world tends towards Humvees - big heavy and with heavy duty springing to match.... one of the best in its class

A cartridge like an Ortofon LM30 would be a bit like a Lotus Elan - ultra light, super maneuvrable.... one of the best in its class

A Grado is more like a BMW 3xx sedan - a really great widely recognised sports sedan with very wide abilities - still very maneuvrable, but no super light weight ... one of the best in its class

Each is the Better Option under specific circumstance and with specific preferences.

So which do you like better? Apples or Oranges?

There are mods and tweaks up the wazzoo for each of these - and even without the additional tweaks, this particular setup is already a very particular one.

Regardless what arm is selected, it will most likely be used with the Townshend headshell based trough. (one of the main Raison D'Etres of this turntable)

So we are already looking at a modified circumstance from the default arm behaviour!

I would initially opt for the Grado for this simple reason:
The Grado's are (relatively) insensitive to cartridge loading (both resistive and capacitive) - meaning there is little that you can get wrong in the phono stage and cabling end of the system.
Life is Simple!! (at least in this one aspect!)

The Rega and Michell arms are variations and mods on the same base - I would humbly suggest the Michell version might be superior... (but the Rega version can always have the technoarm counterweight and other tweaks retrofitted...)...as an aside the Origin Live Silver - daddy of the live encounter - was/is also based on rega.... so these all have very close family links!
Worth reading the VE Rega Arm Family page : http://www.vinylengine.com/a-guide-rega-tonearms.shtml

So lets start by lumping those two together...

Both the Rega family and the Encounter are frequently matched with Cartridgeman Musicmaker Cartridges.... (the Musicmaker cartridges are Grado Prestige cartridges modded to the max.... their arm requirements are the same as standard Grado's) - even though the cartridgemans website specifically states that they match best with arms of 13g or less.

http://www.thecartridgeman.com/music_maker.htm

In terms of Engineering I think the Encounter is the top one of the three - it probably has the most sophisticated arm damping of this batch - and of course it all costs in terms of mass - it is I believe the heaviest of the three. (The Michell is also heavily damped internally with foam etc... so....)

You won't go wrong with any of these. (although in my opinion, the Hadcock would have been better choice - but then I have a liking for lighter arms)

bye for now

David

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #55 on:** 11 May 2011, 03:33 pm »

If you got this wiring harness:

http://cgi.ebay.com/TURNTABLE-TONEARM-WIRE-WITH-CARTRIDGE-CONNECTORS-/380337636314?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item588de3c3da

...and a couple of RCAs off ebay you could still get the Audiomods KIT for under $500. I don't have any experience with the OL arm but have used the Tecnoarm quite a bit in a friend's system. I don't feel it is in the same class as the Audiomods. He sold the Tecnoarm and now has an Audiomods Series IV on his Gyrodec. Even with this cheap wire I think the kit is a better choice than the modded Rega and the Tecnoarm. And you could always upgrade to an Incognito wire kit as money allowed. Also, if you're concerned about compatibility of Rega based arms with Grados the Audiomods would be the best bet (of all Rega-based arms) since the armtube has been drilled and so has a lower effective mass. I've used a Grado Red with mine with no problems. The claim is the holes also disrupt the traveling of resonances along the armtube. Dunno if this is actually the case. While you wouldn't be able to get both an arm and cartridge for under $500, I think you'd have a great arm now that could be upgraded in the future with better wiring and then be a world-class arm!

Did you see the review?

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0709/audiomods_rega_rb250.htm

buckeyefanandy · « **Reply #56 on:** 11 May 2011, 10:43 pm »

The audiomods, where to find it? I have never seen one for sale in the two months i have been looking.

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #57 on:** 11 May 2011, 11:00 pm »

I have never seen one come up on the used market. You have to order it from the maker.

www.audiomods.co.uk

...then click on "arm kits" at the top. You can't get the kits from a retailer either, like you can the complete arms.

Photon46 · « **Reply #58 on:** 11 May 2011, 11:46 pm »

Quote from: buckeyefanandy on 11 May 2011, 10:43 pm

The audiomods, where to find it? I have never seen one for sale in the two months i have been looking.

There was one that popped up on Audiogon a couple of months ago. It sold within minutes for just a few dollars less than it cost to order new from England.

buckeyefanandy · « **Reply #59 on:** 12 May 2011, 12:24 am »

not too comfortable building something. Like the idea, but the complete version is well above my budget.