[drew8mc]

Thanks everyone for all of their advice.

I just spent a couple hours re-mounting the Benz to make sure everything was perfect.  I agree that it sounds like incorrect overhang.  The VPI alignment jig fits on the spindle at one end and the other end fits snuggly up against the tonearm.  There is only one spot marked for overhang and a set of lines for alignment.  I don't think I got it wrong but who knows.  I did use a regular cardboard protractor as well which gave me slightly longer overhang... but I would think the VPI jig would be the one to use. 

Tonight I changed cables, loading settings, azimuth, gain.  I think I just need to try another phonostage to be sure that it's not the culprit.  I have also examined the cantilever which looks to be perfectly aligned in the body so I haven't tried to align it by eye.  Sometimes it looks off to me when I look down the jig, sometimes it looks right on.  I trust the body of the cart as a reference more than my own eyes. 

[neobop]

I think your initial post might have thrown us off. You described some symptoms using a test record that can be problematic when used for anti-skate adjustments.

The reason I think it's your phono stage is your set-up should sound dynamite, not second rate. All the equipment you listed was at least good, most of it very good. Let us know what happens, please.
neo

[drew8mc]

Well... it is not the phono stage.  If I connect my turntable directly to my headphone amp and turn the volume all the way up I can still here the buzzing with the test record. 

Last night I played with setup a bit more and through fiddling with the antiskate settings and alignment by ear I could get the first two tones on side one of the HiFi News test record to play without buzzing and I could get the first tone on side 2 without buzzing.  But playing Allison Krauss and Union Station on MFSL still sounds terribly sibilant near the inner groove especially. 

Is it possible that I have 2 cartridges which are not good matches with this tonearm?  Others have written how much their love their VPI Classic with Benz cartridges so I'm really at a loss here.  There is no bearing in the tonearm to go bad and nothing loose that would buzz.  I feel like selling the whole lot and starting over.

[Delta Wave]

Read the descriptions on the test tracks, I don't have it handy but I recall the last anti-skate track is a "torture" test, they should get progressively louder. I've never been able to get any setup to sound good on the last track.

[neobop]

Oh, and my other turntable was a Well Tempered Labs Record Player.  Cartridges I've used included a Shure V15, Grado Statement Sonata, Sumiko Blue Point No. 2, Ortofon 2M Black, and my current Benz SL.  The musical Surroundings Phonomena was the only phono stage used throughout this period. 

All of these cartridges had the same sibilance problem to varying degrees.  I had thought perhaps that was how all vinyl setups sounded, and was an inherent shortcoming of vinyl playback. 

I recently was watching some UTube videos of folks vinyl setups (it's kind of stupid but I find it fun to watch videos of people showing and playing their systems) and one guy had recorded straight from the phono preamp (instead of the bad mic in the camera).  The sound was devoid of any of the distortion I've had day in and day out.  It's even on the inner groves which is where I get the most distortion.  Granted it was a completely different setup than mine, (all Rega except a Creek phono).  But virtually all the components were less expensive than mine... and even over my computer setup I could tell it was superior to what I've been getting.

Here is the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_E4pDrreo0

None of this really makes any sense. I think maybe there's something basic that you're doing wrong. I have no idea what it is. I suggest getting a professional or someone who knows what they're doing to check out your set-up.

You say you're in Boston? Surely there's a dealer (preferably VPI) who would be glad to help you out. Considering your equipment, it could be the best investment you could make in your system. For those of us who get the most satisfying results playing records, it's painful and frustrating reading about your plight.

If you sold all your record playing equipment and started over, you'd probably wind up with the same situation. Why would you think otherwise?

If you insist on going this alone, and you really made some progress, then maybe you should give that damn test record a rest and use music to adjust your system. Perhaps that MFSL is prone toward sibilance or your set-up isn't tweaked in yet, and everything will be fine. I suspect your alignment is off. You said there was a difference between different protractors, were these protractors using different alignments? You say you used a level to set arm height. Height must be done by ear or test record. It rarely winds up level, and does affect sibilance. As you make adjustments everything should start to fall into place. After making a change sometimes you have to go back and re-adjust something else. You can NOT use that test record for final anti-skate adjustment. Everyone who does, has problems.

If you're new to that area, maybe you don't have friends there that can help, or maybe your friends don't play records. If you can't get it on your own, IMO you should get professional help. After reading your saga, I don't understand why you haven't done this already.
neo

 

[bacobits1]

Does your arm have the optional antiskate mechanism that VPI offers? Is it standard on that arm on the classic?
This still sounds like a setup problem.
 
Forget the test record. I have them and don't ever use them. Set the antiskate to zero or minimum and just adjust by listening if all else is set correctly. VTA setting close to level?
Which Benz "LS is it? There are 3 of them with the LS designation.
OK, I see all 3 have a .40 output and >100 Ohm  at 1.80 tracking settings.

I would set that cartridge to 100 -240 Ohms (maybe higher) at a gain of 48-56 db, lots of choices there to what sounds best. I had a Nova Phonomena and it is a really nice pre.
I use 2 protractors here on my P5, Wayners and the K. Willis protractor.
Maybe you can try another besides VPI's?

That system should sing!
Hey, I'm originally from the S, Shore if I was there I would give you a hand. 

D

[Ericus Rex]

Goodwin's in Waltham has a 'vinyl specialist' named Jim (or is it John...?).  They are a VPI dealer so I would assume he could do a good job.  I think they are charging around $200 for complete setup if you're at your wits' end.  I'm assuming you didn't get the table from them?

[drew8mc]

You may be right about needing a professional who's set up many VPI's.  I went to a dealer yesterday to discuss the issue and maybe see if I could borrow a phono stage.  He gave me the idea to try bypassing the phono and going straight into the headphone amp.  From my description he thought there may be something wrong with the tonearm, but if you know that tonearm at all (he didn't) then you know it has very few if any moving parts.  I went over to the VPI dealer as well but they weren't open on Monday.  I'm going to continue to fiddle with all the options available to me and then take it in if I can't get this licked. 

The arm does come with the antiskate mechanism.  It doesn't seem to have much effect on this issue however.  I have tried the cardboard protractor that comes with the test record and the VPI jig.  The cardboard one gives me longer overhang than the VPI.  I have no idea what geometry it's based on. 

[bastlnut]

hallo,

sounds like an alignment issue, also probably VTF is not right.
you do have a scale to set VTF?
there are a few generic alignment protractors to be downloaded or bought online.
borrow one from a local dealer.
keep the cartridge square in the headshell moving it front to back to front till it is right with the grid of the protractor.
make sure you have enough diffused light to see all the very small pieces easily.
the cantilever should be parallel to the sides of the cartridge or 90° to the front of the cartridge.
if all else fails, get the front of the cartridge parallel to the lines of the grid.
get the tonearm parallel to the record and get the VTF right with a scale.
azimuth must also be checked.
if you adjust VTA, arm parallel to the platter/record then you must check the alignment again.

as another thought, check that the cables are firmly connected to the amps and that they are pushed in enough....
confirm this by sight and not only by feel.
just do not twist the cables when installing them or when removing them.
slow steady pressure.
also make sure that the turntable is placed on a level surface and the plinth is also level.

regards,
bas

[twitch54]

Azimuth looks right on. 

I see you have not replied back in some time so perhaps you've resolved the issue, if so, great, tell as what it was. If not then I refer to my quote of yours above, exactly how did you measure / set up your azimuth ? As a long time VPI owner myself this can be a frustrating task and one that if not done correctly can and will yield sonic nightmares..........

[Wayner]

Unipivot tonearms are notorious for "azimuth roll". They also do not have a real good handle on the anti-skating, which, in combination with the azimuth roll perhaps has made your problem compounded. A third variant is the wires exiting the top of the pivot housing, and if not "dressed" properly, will put tension on the arm in the wrong direction. This wire issue is similar to the old AR-XA and XB turntables, and can cause tracking problems if not addressed.

The AR table's arm also lacks anti-skating, but because it is soooo damped in the horizontal pivot plane, it's behavior is awesome. On my anti-skate calibration tool, the AR arm simply sits in one place at any point within the playing area. I believe this can be accomplished with the VPI JWM tonearm as well.

Another issue is VTA. There have been several debates about this, but Mikey Fremmer has stated several times that proper VTA does not equal an arm parallel to the record surface. This invites poor tracking as the stylus can certainly chatter away, especially considering the other issues of rolling azimuth and anti-skating. Mikey recommends a 2 degree forward lean as this is what the original cutting head was set to when the wax was cut. This puts the ass end of the tonearm up in the air a bit, but it stops the "finger nails on the chalk board" effect from happening with the cartridge.

Why is this set up a bitch? 'Cause you have about 3 or 4 of these gremlins working against you.

Ah, the joys of vinyl playback.

Wayner