[bside123]

Well, I bought this Dual CS530 Turntable (circa 1980?) today. It's more like a "record player" or a big piece of plastic cheese. Made in Germany, but cheap! This is definitely NOT Dual's brightest star.

It came with a vintage Grado MC+ Cartridge (beige), which I believe is mono. Turns out the stylus is toast and will need a replacement. Online, it looks like the replacement stylus for this cartridge is around $50... and that's more than I paid for the whole table.

For that kind of money, I can get a brand new cartridge, e.g. Ortofon, AT, Grado. Although, it seems that everything functions as it should, and the platter has adjustable pitch. This will be fun to play with (for a while), and after I get it working and playing records, I'll give it to somebody to turn them back on to vinyl!


Dual CS530 Automatic Turntable


Vintage Grado MC+ Cartridge

[BaMorin]

Well, I bought this Dual CS530 Turntable (circa 1980?) today. It's more like a "record player" or a big piece of plastic cheese. Made in Germany, but cheap! This is definitely NOT Dual's brightest star.

It came with a vintage Grado MC+ Cartridge (beige), which I believe is mono. Turns out the stylus is toast and will need a replacement. Online, it looks like the replacement stylus for this cartridge is around $50... and that's more than I paid for the whole table.

For that kind of money, I can get a brand new cartridge, e.g. Ortofon, AT, Grado. Although, it seems that everything functions as it should, and the platter has adjustable pitch. This will be fun to play with (for a while), and after I get it working and playing records, I'll give it to somebody to turn them back on to vinyl!


Dual CS530 Automatic Turntable


Vintage Grado MC+ Cartridge

Not only is it mono, it has a conical stylus as well.   For $50 bucks you ain't gonna get much of a cartridge. Serious question.......what does your cost of the table have to do with what you would spend on a cartridge?  My arm cost more than my table, my cart cost more than my arm. But that's just me.
Red Ed? Nagaoka? Grado Black? AT95E? Shure 97xE? Ortophon 10? those are the bottom priced carts today that should give you decent stereo playback.

[bside123]

Not only is it mono, it has a conical stylus as well.   For $50 bucks you ain't gonna get much of a cartridge. Serious question.......what does your cost of the table have to do with what you would spend on a cartridge?  My arm cost more than my table, my cart cost more than my arm. But that's just me. Red Ed? Nagaoka? Grado Black? AT95E? Shure 97xE? Ortophon 10? those are the bottom priced carts today that should give you decent stereo playback.

BaMorin: I completely agree with you. Apparently my attempt at a somewhat sarcastic joke did not work. On my main rig, my cartridge also costs more than my tonearm, as well as my tonearm costs more than what I paid for the deck. My joke was just supposed to highlight that a replacement needle for the old Grado is $50, but I got the whole table (with the cartridge) for $45. So, I'll do what you recommend and replace the cartridge and get some decent stereo playback. I've got my eyes on Ortofon Red and Grado Prestige Green and Black... maybe I'll take a look at some of the ATs. Seems like I could replace the interconnects as well as dampen this inside of the turntable base. Any other ideas? Thanks.

[BaMorin]

BaMorin: I completely agree with you. Apparently my attempt at a somewhat sarcastic joke did not work. On my main rig, my cartridge also costs more than my tonearm, as well as my tonearm costs more than what I paid for the deck. My joke was just supposed to highlight that a replacement needle for the old Grado is $50, but I got the whole table (with the cartridge) for $45. So, I'll do what you recommend and replace the cartridge and get some decent stereo playback. I've got my eyes on Ortofon Red and Grado Prestige Green and Black... maybe I'll take a look at some of the ATs. Seems like I could replace the interconnects as well as dampen this inside of the turntable base. Any other ideas? Thanks.

As has been my experience, plastic body tables make horrible noises and need filled with something.
If the current grado on there now doesn't pick up stray fields from the motor.....you're good to go with another grado.  Also as has been my experience, new cables from the table to the preamp, you have to spend >>~~> l                     l <~~<< this kind of money to get >>~~> l l <~~<< this much improvement.  Generally entry level carts aren't going to expose faults with tonearm cables. Put the money you were going to put in cart and cables into just the cart.

[Scott F.]

BaMorin: I completely agree with you. Apparently my attempt at a somewhat sarcastic joke did not work. On my main rig, my cartridge also costs more than my tonearm, as well as my tonearm costs more than what I paid for the deck. My joke was just supposed to highlight that a replacement needle for the old Grado is $50, but I got the whole table (with the cartridge) for $45. So, I'll do what you recommend and replace the cartridge and get some decent stereo playback. I've got my eyes on Ortofon Red and Grado Prestige Green and Black... maybe I'll take a look at some of the ATs. Seems like I could replace the interconnects as well as dampen this inside of the turntable base. Any other ideas? Thanks.

Din,

I personally think it's cheese 

All kidding aside, that little Dual will end up being a fun little tweaking experiment. As for the cart, I personally would go with the Ortofon Red. It's a rockin' little cart that doesn't give up much on the detail front, has decent bass though can be a tad bright. Overall, for a 100 clams, a darned nice little cart. Much better than the Grado's IMO.

When it comes to the other tweaks I'd start with damping the crap out of the plastic plinth with rope caulk. When I say damp, I'm talking a couple of pounds. We're talking 1/2" thick all across the bottom.

I can't remember if that table has the auto lift/return mechanism but if it does, I'd disassemble that completely making it a fully manual table.

Now here's one out of left field, if I remember that tonearm correctly, it is an extremely low mass arm. It's thin aluminum and generally rings like a bell. you can do a couple of things to dampen that arm. First you could wrap it with some sort of material that will lower the resonant frequency of the arm tube. Maybe electrical tape, you could use some heat shrink that has adhesive in it or you could go off the deep end and fill the arm tube with either foam or caulk.

Obviously doing something that drastic to the arm is going to change the overall compliance of the arm. Lord knows what it will end up being so cartridge mating could get interesting.

Oh, and the rewire of the arm/interconnects is a given.

One thing is for sure, the table (with those tweaks) will sound dramatically different, hopefully for the better 

[bside123]

Hey Scott! Thanks for the note. You and I are on exactly the same wavelength when it comes to messing with this little table. I found it down here for 45 bucks. So, I couldn't resist it, thinking that I could experiment with tweaking and nobody would get hurt. I even thought I might have over paid for the table, but whatever. Kind of a cheap way to get my feet wet with a little DIY.

I'll use lots of damping on the plastic base, etc. This will also give me a chance to experiment with the tonearm... if you could even wanna call it a "tonearm." It's more like a cheap aluminum straw... yes, and it's even labeled "ULM." Guess what that means - Ultra Low Mass. That's for sure. 

BTW, do we have any GAS buddies in STL who deals or sells in Ortofon, etc. I'll be making a brief airport run today.

Another BTW, you do know you gave me that horrible cold the weekend before last, even if you didn't make to Mark and Randy's. How did you do that? You got occult powers? 

[Scott F.]

Hiya Din,

The only guy that I know of that handles the Ortofon is Albert but he's getting out of the biz (rotten economy). You are probably just as well off getting one from the Needle Doctor or whomever.

Oh, you know what I forgot to mention? The feet. You could go either way. Either couple it with some cheap spikes (thing arrowheads from Walmart for $5) or isolation. I'd simply drill a hole in the base of the table and glue the arrowheads to the base. I'd use carpenters glue or super glue so you can easily break the joint when you want to play with different supports.

On the isolation side, I'm trying to think of what is cheap and easy to get your hands on. Maybe some Sorbothane but that can get pricey depending on where you buy it.

There are a couple other really cheap things you could play with in the meanwhile. for something really soft you could try small cubes of Armaflex insulation. That is that black rubber insulation that is used on your refrigerant lines on your condensing unit for your house. you can get sticks of it at Home Depot pretty cheap. You could even use the Armaflex tape (2" wide x about 1/8" thick). I'd try cutting it up in [say] 3/8" cubes first. Make sure when you set the table on it that it compresses - oh say - 25%. You don't want to crush it, just compress a bit. that way all of the vibrational energy of the table or stand gets absorbed by the rubber. If the Armaflex crushes too easily you could use an old mouse pad that is rubber. I've used them too.

Oh, and I'd play with both three and four points of support under the table. They will each (likely) sound a little different.



As for the cold, yep, my mojo is strong. I can will illnesses with little more than my collection of voodoo dolls and a few scraps of person items  Don't worry, other than your nose turning into an open faucet, having it settle in your chest then continuous coughing and sleepless nights, it's not bad at all. 

[dlaloum]

Hmmm...

Plinth - Plasticine / Modelling clay - cheap chearful and comes in a multitude of colours

Arm - stay with high compliance cartridge so you limit the energy pushed back into the arm (that was the design intention anyway!) - add a dot of plasticine to the back of the headshell and on a resonant node of the arm - that will stop the ringing without adding too much mass. (Van Alstine recommended tweaks circa 1970's !!)

Cartridge:
Without major mods - you need to have it high compliance... you don't want to mess with cables so go for another Grado - reasonably priced, insensitive to cable capacitance, value for money performance and high compliance.
There are lots of other nice high compliance MM / MI classics out there - Empire 2000, Ortofon OM, AT's etc...

Sounds like fun

Bye for now

David

[bside123]

Well here's the latest progress on the little Dual CS 530 Turntable that I acquired via Craig's List last month. I've since added a new AT95E cartridge, approximately 7 lbs of plastic clay to the plinth and cloth fiber grip tape to the ULM tonearm. Listening results so far... not the last word in detail or resolution... but I've got say that now this little turntable has got some real "boogie factor!" Warm, fun, smooth and involving. Good bass slam, smooth midrange and highs. Like I said, a lot of fun to listen to. and so far my investment adds up to about $115 USD. I already have plans to tweak the feet, the wires and the platter. More later. 

[Listens2tubes]

This is my kind of project. Try wrapping the arm with teflon tape. Try a bed of bubble wrap under the deck to test the effects of air suspension. On my modded Technics cheapo I removed the captive interconnects and mounted a pair of RCAs wired directly to the arm wires.